AHC: The British intervene in the American Civil War... On The Union's Side

[the Imperium of Canada]

The challenge his is to get he United Kingdom to intervene in the American Civil War against the Confederate States of America.

The Point of Divergence must happen after 1800.

 

[Arcavia]

The Confederates start arming the slaves but look as if their chain of command will break down. Britain intervenes for the Union to prevent a race war, which OTL was their policy for most of the conflict.

 

[m0585]

Very difficult, as the Union didn't really need its help. The British did the best thing for the Union that the could; it refused to recognize the Confederacy. The best I could see happening is fervently anti-slavery British citizens coming over to the US and heading to the nearest recruiting station. Even then, I'm sure Union officials would be hesitant to accept British recruits. If a few of them were captured, then it would provide quite a PR boost to the Confederacy. "The Union is in such dire straights/is so cowardly that it pays foreign mercenaries to fight for it."

 

[Antiochus V]

As I understand a few European officers served on both sides, I think any practical experience was gratefully recieved.

Given Britain’s anti-slavery bias it is not impossible to envisage UK help, but the challenge is getting it early in the war when it is most needed. What the UK could have done was provide naval support early on, and training help to enable the North to build up the army more quickly and to a higher standard. As it was the UK sold large quantities of weapons to both sides, had they been sold solely to the North it might also have helped.

PODs might be no war of 1812, and closer economic links to the North rather than the South. Perhaps if the UK had more cotton sources in Egypt and India that would also help change the relationship.

 

[DougM]

Avoid the war of 1812.
Then have the population of England be more actively anti slavery so that when the war breaks out they favor the north. With anti slavery protesters in the streets.
At some point have the south do something extreme. Say a slave Rebellion starts in a state and the confederacy crushes it killing a ton of slaves. And then gets even more extream in keeping the slaves down. Or they try to use them in some way that forces them into a position that gets hundreds of slaves killed in the war itself.
Either way when the population of England hears of this they have a fit. Even more protests in the streets.
England’s prime minister or some other high muckity muck happens to be meeting with CSA representation at the time.
The representative gets in a bit of a spat with the English lord. The lord gets in his face about the deaths of the slaves the CSA rep tells him that it is non of his business and that if England is not careful the South will stop all cotton from every being sold to England thus crushing England’s economy. And it spirals down from there

It is not very likely. But it could happen. Piss off the wrong person in the English government and you can easily see English war ships helping the north blockade the south. Ask any number of countries. If England gets upset or things it’s financial situation is challenged then England has a history of sending in the troops.
And Lincoln would make a deal with anyone that saved the Union

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

... and closer economic links to the North rather than the South. ...

I was thinking the opposite. Britain's economic interests in the South are threatened by a more virulent anti slavery stance. The proslavery faction in the South starts seizing Brit connected businesses/assets. Impounding bank accounts, & goods, all to punish the Brits for opposing the natural order of slavery. Parliament takes action to solidly back the Unionists to protect British business. Th whole thing is spun as a joint effort to restore order & rule of law out of the chaos created by a rabble of tidewater swamp dwelling plantation owning miscreants.

Pretty much this

... If England gets upset or things it’s financial situation is challenged then England has a history of sending in the troops.
And Lincoln would make a deal with anyone that saved the Union

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

King Corn is more important thanb King Cotton?

if there is an argument there....

 

[John Roscommon]

Could the Lincoln Administration accept foreign intervention in suppressing what it characterizes as an internal insurrection, and survive politically?

 

[Fabius Maximus]

As I understand a few European officers served on both sides, I think any practical experience was gratefully recieved.

IIRC there were also a fair few Canadians fighting on the Union side. There were also Irish units, although I presume those were made up of Irishmen who'd already immigrated rather than coming over specifically to fight.

I think the biggest problem would be that accepting foreign help would look very bad, since it would seem that the US couldn't keep order in its own country. So you'd probably need to get to a point where a Confederate victory looks like a serious prospect, rendering Lincoln desperate enough to accept foreign troops doing (some of) the Union's fighting for it.

Or I guess you could have some sort of alt-Trent incident where the Confederacy seizes a British vessel, refuses to back down, and then gets war declared on it by the British.

 

[DougM]

It depends. If the CSA insults England and England declares war in the CSA then within reason he could get away with it. Assuming that thier was no war of 1812. Even with 1812 he could probably get away with England helping with the blockade.

If he ASKS for help he will not get re-elected.

 

[The Gunslinger]

1812 was fifty years earlier and had exactly zero bearing on the conflict, it was almost wholly forgotten with weeks of the war ending as far as bad blood went.

 

[Deleted member 114175]

IIRC the US and UK were each other's largest trading partner at that time, so maybe the British want to snipe the Confederacy to get the war over with and go back to normal trade relations. In the meantime they can get some unequal treaties from the Confederacy before their surrender.

 

[Socrates]

What if the Confederates start genociding black people when they realize they are losing? British humanitarians find out about it and get the British government to use the Royal Navy to help end the slaughter?

 

[John Roscommon]

There's a fine distinction to be made but I don't think that it's nitpicking. The United States never acknowledged that the Confederate States were out of the Union; as Lincoln's first proclamation calling for volunteers stated they were areas in a state of insurrection that Federal Courts and Marshals couldn't handle (of course, those Courts and Marshals were among the insurrectionists, but hey; legal fiction). If any foreign power declared war on the Confederate States they would be acknowledging that the Confederacy was a real nation and that would be the last thing Lincoln wanted.

It depends. If the CSA insults England and England declares war in the CSA then within reason he could get away with it. Assuming that thier was no war of 1812. Even with 1812 he could probably get away with England helping with the blockade.

If he ASKS for help he will not get re-elected.

 

[Mort the Reaper]

I know Bermuda was pretty divided in its sympathies. Maybe pro-Confederate Bermudians attack pro-Union Bermudians, and get aided by the crew of a Confederate blockade runner.

 

[Atterdag]

What if the confederate government flee to Bahamas when they realize all is lost and forcefull occupy the island?

Pretty much the worst course of action for them but hey, history's full of those.

 

[RPW@Cy]

What if the confederate government flee to Bahamas when they realize all is lost and forcefull occupy the island?

Pretty much the worst course of action for them but hey, history's full of those.

Slavery was abolished in the British Empire on 1 August 1834. After that British colonial officials freed 78 North American slaves from the Enterprise, which went into Bermuda in 1835; and 38 from the Hermosa, which wrecked off Abaco Island in 1840. The most notable case was that of the Creole in 1841: as a result of a slave revolt on board, the leaders ordered the US brig to Nassau. It was carrying 135 slaves from Virginia destined for sale in New Orleans. The Bahamian officials freed the 128 slaves who chose to stay in the islands. The Creole case has been described as the "most successful slave revolt in U.S. history."

From wikipedia. Much of the population of the Bahamas in the 19th century consisted of either freed slaves - many of them, as the above example indicates, runaways from the South - or their children. I'm sure they'll be delighted to welcome their new Confederate overlords.

If the Confederates are *very* lucky, they may get arrested by the British before the Bahamians finish with them.

 

[DougM]

Yes the US declared it a Rebellion and thus claimed they were still part of the union. But if you want to pick nits the Union declaired a blockad and that only. Applies to foreign ports. The Union should have just “closed” the ports.

And neither of those points effects the worlds only “super power”. England is the thousand pound gorilla that can do what it wants. And if the CSA ticks it off it can help enforce the blockaid if it chooses to. Do you think the Union will tell the largest navy in the world to go away? And if the Royal Navy refuses to go away then what?

 

[John Roscommon]

Unless I read the OP wrong, the objective of the exercise is to get the British to intervene on the side of the USA. In my opinion the idea of unilateral British action against the CSA without the request or at least the permission of the USA doesn't meet that test. I think that the answer lies across the pond, somewhere in the economy and domestic politics of Britain and the desire and ability of the USA to exploit any opportunity.

 

[Fabius Maximus]

What if the Confederates start genociding black people when they realize they are losing?

TBH I doubt that would happen. The Confederates were fighting to defend a pretty oppressive social system, but they weren't moustache-twirling supervillains.