AHC: Save American Public Schools

Artaxerxes

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People who say something like that usually use it as a dog whistle for "urban" (meaning black) parents

Ah, I'm British

While I do think urban* parents are the majority of bad parents this is more usually due to issues like poverty and poor education rather than race but poor parenting is an equal opportunity employer, rich and poor, black and white. Ignorance sadly begets ignorance in a vicious circle.

Both parents and kids need to value education.

*urban in this country is a matter of wealth not race, there does seem to be something of an importing of the american definition into the country though
 
Ah, I'm British

While I do think urban* parents are the majority of bad parents this is more usually due to issues like poverty and poor education rather than race but poor parenting is an equal opportunity employer, rich and poor, black and white. Ignorance sadly begets ignorance in a vicious circle.

Both parents and kids need to value education.

*urban in this country is a matter of wealth not race, there does seem to be something of an importing of the american definition into the country though

No worries just thought I'd let you know :)
 
You want to stop the school-to-prison pipeline? Then Hubert Humphrey best squeak by Nixon in 1968, because in San Antonio Independent School District v. Rodriguez (1971), the Supreme Court held 5-4 that education is not a right under the US Constitution and so the Equal Protection Clause cannot be incorporated on behalf of equal educational funding for all. The combination of that case with Milliken v. Bradley (1974) allowed for de facto segregation by income and race. White flight increased, leaving the cities hollow and heavily black. The de facto segregation made the new ghettos low-hanging fruit for Ronald Reagan's War on Drugs / New Jim Crow that is the backbone of the school-to-prison pipeline.
 
Well private and charter schools do have the benefit of selective admission. They are free to block special needs or low income students. Heck, I read an article a while ago that 35% (ish) charter schools are worse than public schools, with one school replacing a whole class to improve their test scores. Public Education has to take on all of the costs and effort of everyone.

I disagree. I think "selectiveness" is good. If your kid is a hellraiser, why is it's society's responsibility to teach him right from wrong?

I know the counter argument to this: Well, the kids will become criminals and be a greater cost to society!

Well maybe. Or maybe, our low expectation accept everybody society gives people delusions as to what acceptable behavior is, and in fact a kid being rejected from schools will result in some of these kids actually getting their butts in gear.
 
I disagree. I think "selectiveness" is good. If your kid is a hellraiser, why is it's society's responsibility to teach him right from wrong?

I know the counter argument to this: Well, the kids will become criminals and be a greater cost to society!

Well maybe. Or maybe, our low expectation accept everybody society gives people delusions as to what acceptable behavior is, and in fact a kid being rejected from schools will result in some of these kids actually getting their butts in gear.

Not really being alienated from society will probably make them aggressive or suicidal.

Good for the private prison industry though!
 
If we let people take that $5500 and go shopping with it, yes.

Let me put it this way; I've spent time in both public and private schools; and a private school which didn't have annual tuition of at least $18k basically means that there's probably something screwy going on. $25k, if you do your shopping properly can get you a world-class education equal to the best schools elsewhere. $40k is what gets you into the best schools elsewhere. Once you pass $18k anyhow, the decent schools actually become fairly selective in their admissions.

Suffice to say; vouchers are not the solution, not when the good schools are going to be tight-fisted and issue maybe 2 a year, and the ones who issue 200 are the ones where math stops at Algebra 1, biology is code for creationism, and history is about Ronnie Reagan and the evil libruls.
 
Also, those awful teachers' unions.


I was a Physics teacher for Two year out of college, till I got a job in my field.
My sister has a chemistry degree and a Husband who work has him moving around alot. If she is unable to find work in her field, she will take teaching jobs at either a private school or a Public School.

We both join the Teacher Union for one very simple reason. In this day and age of Lawsuits, the Union will provide legal aid to teacher.
The Local school systems not only provide no aid but all to often sacrifices the teacher.
 
My mom taught at an inner city school. The (local) teachers' union was the only resource the teachers had, especially if the principal was a jerk. She and I don't like the national one; it focuses more on national topics than teachers/schools, but that is a different issue. The administrators were her bugaboo, apparently had nice buildings and paychecks (which come out of the education pot I believe), haven't taught in years so have either no idea or outdated ones when making/requiring lesson plans. Honestly I think a top through bottom approach is needed: figure out what curriculum is needed, allow some flexibility at the local level, administrators need to teach every few years, and cannot exceed x% of the district budget, state/fed govt. can add supplementary funds, but with some restrictions (wealthy districts should pay for themselves, not the fed. The Dept of Ed should be helping out rural and inner city districts IMO).
 
Not to mention those articles contradict each other, the rich won't stand for it. The whole point of wealth is not to sit on a throne of dollar bills but to buy what one considers a better life. If you shackle their kids to underperforming schools they'll vote with their feet. They can very easily afford to live somewhere else.

Private schools aren't white-power country clubs either, and are probably more diverse than most public schools. Northeastern prep schools are incredibly cosmopolitan.
 
The main problem with public education is that if you don't fit into a right mold, you're automatically diagnosed with a learning disability. I know, I'm a victim of this. I was a lazy kid, so they assumed that there was something wrong with me so I was thrown into special ed. It made me a social outcast because I was labeled a "retard" by my peers. This fueled my social awkwardness, isolating me.

I despise public education for fucking up my life.

Don't get me started on that - I don't know how many lives the push to put every other child on unstable anti-psychotic medications just because they get bored in class ended up ruined.

To say nothing of doing nothing to stop bullying. One kid who harassed me and pushed me around repeatedly in high school got off scot free because he was our star linebacker. Until after reporting him a dozen times, and his bullying getting worse, I broke his jaw in front of half the school cafeteria. Needless to say, theater club isn't the same 'get out of suspension free' card the football team is - but I was back in a week and no one ever bullied me again.
 
American public schools have a lot of challenges in the current economic and political environment. A lot of hand-wringing goes on about how our average students stack up against the elite students around the world and usually come off pretty badly, justifying more funding and pushing in some areas.

I'd like every kid to have a good grounding in the liberal arts and sciences and computer savvy enough to stay on top of things to be an informed, productive, and involved citizen.

As many have said already, the local nature of districts in funding and who runs things to suit local political climate make it very difficult to develop a one-size fits all curriculum and hold everyone to it.

Also as mentioned before, the amount and type of education needed to economically compete in the modern economy is far different in amount and content over the last thirty years.

HS diplomas are nowhere near enough education for somebody to be economically self-sufficient or adequate preparation for adult life.

IMO the associate's degree needs to be the minimum standard for public education.
We subsidize community colleges anyway and I think they're a great vehicle for people to obtain or upgrade their knowledge or skills but why are they separate institutions from high schools and why should people have to go through high school THEN attend community college?

You could cut out a lot of fluff in the JH/HS curriculum and allow folks to graduate at 16 with an AAS with some actual job skills or enough college credit to go to university successfully.

The big issue is that kids need to be realistically and thoroughly assessed and counseled at age 12 as to what programs exist, pick what track they're on and what it takes to compete in the various tracks.

To me, there a shit-ton of online stuff that could supplement HS curricula students can access and practice whatever is seen as lagging areas- math, reading skills, writing, the sciences, computer literacy, etc.

For that to work, every student should have a school-provided laptop and every household should have some form of web access or school libraries open til 7pm to do homework/submit assignments/etc. with teaching assistants around for tutoring.
That plan requires adequate physical plant, funding for computers, capable and well-informed guidance counselors and enough good TA's to help keep the students and classes on track which IMO is a major need for school districts.
Some are fantastic, engaged, sharp people that stay on top of employment and college admissions trends as well as what tutoring/enrichment programs can really help kids load the dice in their favor to go where they need to go to become successful.
However, they're not adequately paid or given near enough credit. Nor are there near enough of them to give individual attention to each student and continuity to spot behavior changes.

Parents have to listen and come prepared for it instead of blindly assuming Timmy or Tina is automatically going to Yale if they graduate from HS with a B+ average or top 10% rank in class.
Maybe, if it's an IB program and they have a lot of AP credits and the right ECA's and letters of recommendation from faculty/alumni/VIPs.
A guidance counselor could explain that and help the kid and the parent(s) understand what's needed and a plan to get there or alternatives.

In summary, we need to totally revamp the primary and HS curriculum to AAS standard by 16, content delivery, and teaching models to get kids what they need to academically and economically succeed.
Teachers need good pay, mentorship and support of the district to reduce extraneous burdens so they can actually teach well and develop into professional educators.

It's good that parents are involved with their kids and advocate for them when they get in trouble. However, getting their expectations in line with reality and finding ways to partner up with teachers and administration to make things better for all kids would be a massive help.

That's my two cents.
 
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