AHC: Native Americans push the settlers to the sea
- Thread starter Zuvarq
- Start date
There is always the whole "a few pre-Columbia Old World traders and explorers land in America" method. Just enough to interact and put European disease on the continent, but few enough so that they are forgotten and history goes along as it did.
Cortez's expedition fails miserably. A second one also fails miserably, and the Spanish decide it's better just to trade with the Natives. With more time to reocover from the small pox epidemic, the natives are ready to fend off any european colonization attempts if they come.
I don't know if that is ASB or not though.
I don't know if that is ASB or not though.
Without a POD thousands of years ago they simply cannot. By the time that Columbus sailed west, the native americans were basically doomed to suffer near extinction at the hands of the Europeans. There were geo political, biological and social forces at work that couldn't really be stopped.
Disease immunity doesn't really work that way. You need sustained and continuous contact with a disease for it to really get going. One epidemic is not going to do it. If you have that, you are almost be bound to have European colonisation of some kind.
Maybe with some finagling, you could keep European dominance to the East coast with a slower and earlier colonization, but native americans are going to suffer and they are going to suffer hard.
Cortez went to south-central Mexico which is part of North America. Any disease dropped there would migrate north over time.
Personally, I like the idea of a big group of vikings getting a large settlement going in Newfoundland while maintaining minimal contact with the old world until the 1500's. Perhaps the little ice age ends this contact for a time.
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
What about an earlier interaction between Native Americans and Viking traders? Even if the Vikings do not settle in the New World, the Native American tribes could acquire some bits of Viking tech.
Still won't save them from the massive die offs from disease and all the social disruption it brings.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Perhaps through sheer luck on the part of the Pequot and lack of Native Americans fighting on the side of the New Englander colonists, perhaps the Pequot could drive out the English from Massachusetts and keep it free from European colonists. Maybe. If only for a few decades....but even then it's only buying them a small bit of time and there's still the matter of many Native Americans dying off due to disease.
Kaptin Kurk
Banned
The Europeans basically colonized three areas, the New World, Africa, and Asia. Africans and Asians exist today, largely because European diseases did not wipe out / cripple their population beyond recognition, to the point that European settlers were never able to actually replace the native population. (Australia in Asia being the main exception, and due to the technological development there more so than disease.) In the New World, the story was different. If, however, for some reason you produce a native immune defense to Old World diseases, its is likely that European colonizations takes the same course as it did in Africa and Asia, with Europeans establishing themselves on top for a few centuries, and the mass of natives eventually gaining some form of autonomy.
Indeed, North America is unique for the fact that it experienced a general population replacement.
Indeed, North America is unique for the fact that it experienced a general population replacement.
This.
It is possible for an organized Native Confederacy to drive a settlement or even colony into the sea, but it would only be a bried reprieve. Demographics, technology, and disease (among other things) were working against them.
Also, it should be noted that disease usually adversly affected native political cohesion.
Artillery Gnome
Banned
The Cold War goes nuclear. Almost everyone in North-America dies immediately, a few people attempt to survive in the nuclear wasteland. Someone with native american ancestry happens survive the longest.
If the native americans have to be personally responsible for driving the Europeans out you should have a European survive with the native american for a while. Eventually they get into a fight and the native american wins.
If the native americans have to be personally responsible for driving the Europeans out you should have a European survive with the native american for a while. Eventually they get into a fight and the native american wins.
What about a religious group in the 1600s that goes to live with and mix with a native tribe, adopting their culture and lifestyle. But the Christian religion buys them some time with the settlers. While they end up bringing some technology as well.
This tribe mixes with other tribes and becomes more native again but immunities and weapons are spread. Several decades afterward a Tecumseh-like character confederates the tribes and attacks the European colonies one by one. He may be more successful if the Eastern Seaboard is still split between several powers.
Europeans probably recolonize, but the initial conquest provides some extra horses and guns, giving the tribe an advantage for further raids. They can attack the colonies one by one, though the confederacy probably ends up dissolving.
This tribe mixes with other tribes and becomes more native again but immunities and weapons are spread. Several decades afterward a Tecumseh-like character confederates the tribes and attacks the European colonies one by one. He may be more successful if the Eastern Seaboard is still split between several powers.
Europeans probably recolonize, but the initial conquest provides some extra horses and guns, giving the tribe an advantage for further raids. They can attack the colonies one by one, though the confederacy probably ends up dissolving.
This reminds me of the Honest Hearts DLC for Fallout New Vegas.
Supposedly, there was a pandemic that killed off alot of Native Americans just before the Purtians came to Plymouth. There were others, but this one was kind of the nail in the coffin for the Native American tribes.
Kaptin Kurk
Banned
While it's not fashionable in certain circles, disease really is the main issue. Even as early as Jamestown (English in Virginia) the European colonist under John Smith are benefiting militarily against the natives because the number of native warriors has been diminished by disease. In an effort to accentuate the brutality of certain Europeans, the impact of disease has been diminished for what might be called political correctness. But the truth is, if the New World / Old World disease barrier did not exist but everything else remained the same, European colonization of the New World probably wouldn't have taken off until the 1600 and 1700 hundreds, and native Americans would probably be the genetic majority of the continent today. Certainly, there would have been no 1500s conquistadors, and Jamestown would probably be synonymous with Roanoke.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
I expect any Native American coalition in New England as a specific example would likely end up like that of Pope's rebellion against the Spanish in New Mexico. The Pequot War could have ended in the defeat and destruction of most, if not all English settlements in New England but such independence and freedom from European colonization would be short-lived. Like the Spanish who desired to take back New Mexico due to fears of France expanding westward, the English would not allow the likes of the French or Dutch to take the chance and settle the territory in their absence. Once news reaches England of what happened to the colonists, I would fear what would happen to the Native Americans once the second wave of English settlers eventually comes and tries to take the land by force. And who's to say that this Native American will even remain apart once the whites are expelled (temporarily)? They would likely splinter and return to fighting amongst themselves, giving opportunity to the next wave of colonists to seize.
Take the example of the Pueblo. When the Spanish reconquered the area (rather bloodlessly), some of the Pueblo decided to join other tribes such as the Apache and Navajo where the Spanish had not yet expanded to. I can expect something similar to happen. It won't take long for the Europeans to arrive in large numbers again and with diseases culling their numbers bit by bit, some if not many of the Native Americans would prefer to take their chances and flee westward instead of fighting them again. Perhaps join the likes of the Mohican or even the Haudenosaunee for sanctuary.