AHC: Make Ronald Reagan a Contender for the Worst President

[cpip]

Well, you could have him sell weapons to American enemies, use the proceeds to back a bunch of monsters in another country. That should...wait no he did that.

He could drastically worsen economic inequality by slashing taxes while simultaneously spending more of weapons and...no thst happened too.

Uh...he could ignore a pandemic because he wanted it to kill homosexuals for no reason but bigotry, while disciplining the surgeon general when th man tried to speak out on the subject.No wait. THAT HAPPENED TOO.

Ronald Reagan WAS one of the worst presidents the US has ever had. It’s telling that the most common suggestion so far to make him even worse is literally wiping out the human race.

I thought the OP's challenge was to make sure people actually acknowledged it.

Possibly if you preserved the Fairness Doctrine, or managed to override Reagan's veto (or Bush's threatened veto), you spike conservative talk radio, and that slows down the Cult of Saint Ronald.

 

[marathag]

Yep - able archer goes horribly wrong.

The Soviets doing a First Strike from faulty info is hardly RRs fault, and after WWIII, it would hardly matter to anyone left alive to tabulate a 'worst President' list

 

[marathag]

Possibly if you preserved the Fairness Doctrine, or managed to override Reagan's veto (or Bush's threatened veto), you spike conservative talk radio, and that slows down the Cult of Saint Ronald.

Talk Radio didn't create the people who are willing to listen enthusiastically to Talk Radio, they were already there, and unhappy with existing Big Three media that was dominated by Eastern Liberals.

It was untapped market that Rush and the rest glommed onto.

 

[cpip]

Talk Radio didn't create the people who are willing to listen enthusiastically to Talk Radio, they were already there, and unhappy with existing Big Three media that was dominated by Eastern Liberals.

It was untapped market that Rush and the rest glommed onto.

They absolutely were out there -- but the widespread hagiography of Reagan was definitely contributed to by folks like Rush Limbaugh, who spent whole chapters of his books, based on his radio show, explaining how Ronald Reagan was literally the greatest President of American history ever to exist. It was contributed to, certainly, by books like Dutch, but the scripts were already written in the 1990s.

 

[David T]

I thought the OP's challenge was to make sure people actually acknowledged it.

Possibly if you preserved the Fairness Doctrine, or managed to override Reagan's veto (or Bush's threatened veto), you spike conservative talk radio, and that slows down the Cult of Saint Ronald.

You do know that the Fairness Doctrine never applied to cable and would therefore have no effect, for example, on Fox News? BTW, even with respect to ordinary TV and radio, it was seldom enforced.

"By way of example, in 1973, the Commission received 2400 Fairness Doctrine complaints; only 94 were forwarded to the licensee for comment. 1974 Fairness Report,
supra note 11, at para. 19. In 1973-74, of the 4,280 Fairness Doctrine complaints received, only 19-about .4%--resulted in findings adverse to the licensee. Seven
related to the Political Editorializing Rules, 7 to the Personal Attack Rule, and 5 to general Fairness Doctrine violations. Furthermore, only 8 of those 19 resulted in a
financial penalty. 1976 Reconsideration, supra note 40, at 709 (dissenting statement of Commissioner Robinson). From 1982 to 1986, of the thousands of Fairness Doctrine
complaints received by the Commission, only 24 made it to the Commission appeals process. Bolton, In Stark Contravention of Its Purpose: F.C.C. Enforcement of the
Fairness Doctrine, 20 U. MICH. J.L. REF. 799, 820 (1987). Of those 24, only one resulted in a finding adverse to the licensee, and it was reversed by the Court of
Appeals..." https://repository.uchastings.edu/c...le=1248&context=hastings_comm_ent_law_journal

 

[peeter]

One could argue that with the things he did you could make a solid case that he was one of the worst presidents ever.

 

[Sam R.]

Without accepting the offer to make moral judgements, we can merely agree that the US public are idiots regarding competence. They too are making moral judgements.

Reagan failed to build an adequate secretarial support network, failed to treat his degenerative illness, took advice from sources external to his administration in a manner that should be considered improper, allowed CIA institutional capture of policy, engendered corruption and governed by spin and media.

None of these are moral judgments but rather of competence. An equally evil man could have, for example, competently brought Team B inside his control and prevented capture of policy by the institution *while conducting the same abhorrent policies.*

He was lucky, supported by an extra governmental policy consensus amongst a major faction in society, and good at media. Nixon was of greater competence.

 

[Electric Monk]

When Warren Buffet takes over TV network ABC via Capital Cities he’s influenced by a chance meeting with Richard Branson to create a news channel modelled on the British way of confronting people—framing the whole thing news as spectacle and dramatic showdowns over lies that politicians and lobbyists and what not are forced to face live.

Essentially CNN but with British reporters teaching Americans how to slam politicians the news channel climbs in popularity among a wide demographic base of younger viewers and a surprising amount of older viewers. Hired on board Rush Limbaugh becomes dedicated to getting everybody over hypocrisy while Howard Stern explodes nationwide. Bringing Los Angeles car chases to national attention towards the end of the ‘80s is also a huge boost, reality shows are popular and cheap.

Taking down Hart over sex and Bush over treason in ‘88, the channel establishes itself as a force to be reckoned with. As part of ‘88 they happily smash Reagan’s legacy to the ground aired side by side with Ted Kennedy’s disasters. “Fair and balanced, we take down everybody”. Fox News comes off as a boring pale imitation and remains a minor player while CNN is for “serious people” with terrible ratings. Talk Radio responds to success and becomes much more willing to assault Republicans over items other than ideological purity to the movement as long as they can pair it up with Dems.

Reagan’s reputation is badly hurt by all this of course, although no President comes off well as the channel airs massive specials on all the dirt of previous presidents.

 

[M79]

A nuclear war breaks out and Reagan is seen as having caused it.

/thread

 

[marathag]

One could argue that with the things he did you could make a solid case that he was one of the worst presidents ever.

you mean like setting of the end of the ColdWar, with a Soft landing and then implosion of the USSR?

Yeah, what an ineffectual boob.

But really?
That result was unthinkable in 1980 like something like that could ever happen
It was RR that wanted Rollback, not peaceful acceptance of the gains of the 2nd World since WWII

Cannot state enough how hard hitting that ad was at the time.

The metric for 'Good' or 'Bad' President is prety simple,
''Was the Country better off at the end of the term than at the start"

So that puts Hoover, Nixon, Carter and both Poppy and Dubya as Bad Presidents

You can make a case for Ike being a Bad President, but not RR.

 

[unclepatrick]

I use to tell my students that Reagan was questioned by Reporters over what he knew about Iran Contra.
Reagan response was "I don't remember" .
When He left office, it was finally revealed that Reagan had Alzheimer.
He was telling the Truth, He really did not remember.

To make things worst, Have the news about Alzheimer be revealed earlier.
Have the Cabinet and the Legislature get into fights over the 25th amendment.

 

[Sam R.]

Reagan response was "I don't remember"

He was telling the Truth, He really did not remember.

Does not follow.

Suffering a degenerative brain condition that impacts your mind does not indicate that you were truthful when you had political and legal reasons to be deceptive; particularly when the lack of memory readily goes to self interest.

Not the kind of reasoning we use without additional sources to bolster the claim.

 

[connorCD]

you mean like setting of the end of the ColdWar, with a Soft landing and then implosion of the USSR?

Yeah, what an ineffectual boob.

But really?
That result was unthinkable in 1980 like something like that could ever happen
It was RR that wanted Rollback, not peaceful acceptance of the gains of the 2nd World since WWII

Cannot state enough how hard hitting that ad was at the time.

The metric for 'Good' or 'Bad' President is prety simple,
''Was the Country better off at the end of the term than at the start"

So that puts Hoover, Nixon, Carter and both Poppy and Dubya as Bad Presidents

You can make a case for Ike being a Bad President, but not RR.

Yeah the problem with these kind of threads is how the idea of a "good" or "bad" president is, atleast most of the time, subjective. Some may consider Reagan as one of the greats alongside Washington while others see him as the devil incarnate. It's really up to what the average joe determines depending on what is presented to them.

 

[unclepatrick]

Does not follow.

Suffering a degenerative brain condition that impacts your mind does not indicate that you were truthful when you had political and legal reasons to be deceptive; particularly when the lack of memory readily goes to self interest.

Not the kind of reasoning we use without additional sources to bolster the claim.

Well I meant the Statement as a Joke when I said it in class but both H W Brands biography and Iwan Morgan's biography point out that Reagan was having memory problems toward the end of his time as president. And as you said, just because he did not remember making a decision does not excuses him.

It is interesting that the first biography of Reagan did not talk about his health problems at all. Lou Cannon's "The Role of a Lifetime" published in 1991 does not mention any Health Problems.

 

[unclepatrick]

Since @Sam R raises a question about sources, I have read a couple of Paul Kengor's books.
They are less biographies and more a mixture of conservative dogma and religious thesis.
One of his books is title "God and Ronald Reagan"
In it, Kengor says that if it was not for God giving us Ronald Reagan, we would not have seen the Fall of the USSR.
Do the people commenting on this thread think that this statement has any truth or would the internal Social. Political and Economic factors in the USSR in the 80's and 90's have lead to the break up of the USSR regardless of whom was President in the 1980's?

 

[Don Corleone]

No need to make it overly complicated. Just have Carter in 1979, instead of Clinton in 1999, repeal Glass-Steagall.

We had a real estate crash in the mid-80s and a stock market crash in 1987 and shook off both events. 20 years later, those two events caused the Great Recession.

 

[The Gunslinger]

Have Reagan mishandle the Mexican Peso Crisis, causing the collapse of the international financial system and Mexico, while engendering an explosion in narcotics trafficking which will devastate communities in the United States worse than the crack epidemic:

This right here is the best one. Any thread revolving around nuclear war could result in him ending up with "it was bound to happen and wasn't his fault", A preventable financial collapse could easily be blamed on him, and if you add a public leak of his Alzheimer's when things are spiralling downward it could just fuel to the fire. Plus a worse AIDS epidemic due to a flailing economy and millions of Mexicans streaming across the border as Mexico erupts into banditry, government strongmen and de facto warlords you've got a recipe for the worst.

 

[marathag]

A preventable financial collapse could easily be blamed on him, and if you add a public leak of his Alzheimer's when things are spiralling downward it could just fuel to the fire. Plus a worse AIDS epidemic due to a flailing economy and millions of Mexicans streaming across the border as Mexico erupts into banditry, government strongmen and de facto warlords you've got a recipe for the worst.

So, only takes Five unrelated PoDs to do it.

 

[Zheng He]

Could we please stop the nonsense that Reagan was suffering from Alzheimer's while in office:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/09/opin...in-office-opinion-heubusch-shirley/index.html

Following his presidency, he went to the Mayo Clinic for extensive annual exams starting in 1989 and was given an annual test for dementia and mental deterioration. Each year, he passed the exam without showing any signs of dementia beyond normal aging until his disease was diagnosed and revealed in 1994.

Among the 66 million documents in the Reagan Library archives are schedules that track every minute of Reagan's presidency, along with his own handwritten daily diary of his activities. It's clear from the documents that Reagan fully carried out the responsibilities of his office and was actively occupied in that role throughout his two terms.

Dr. Lawrence Altman, longtime New York Times medical correspondent, looked for just such evidence and found none. Altman, who examined the subject in the wake of Ron Reagan's 2011 book suggesting that this father may have shown signs of illness in his presidency, wrote, "In my extensive interviews with his White House doctors, key aides and others, I found no evidence that Mr. Reagan exhibited signs of dementia as president," he wrote. "No other family member -- and not Edmund Morris, the biographer who spent seven years with Mr. Reagan in the White House -- publicly hinted that he showed evidence of Alzheimer's as president."

 

[Histor32]

Well, you could have him sell weapons to American enemies, use the proceeds to back a bunch of monsters in another country. That should...wait no he did that.

He could drastically worsen economic inequality by slashing taxes while simultaneously spending more of weapons and...no thst happened too.

Uh...he could ignore a pandemic because he wanted it to kill homosexuals for no reason but bigotry, while disciplining the surgeon general when th man tried to speak out on the subject.No wait. THAT HAPPENED TOO.

Ronald Reagan WAS one of the worst presidents the US has ever had. It’s telling that the most common suggestion so far to make him even worse is literally wiping out the human race.

Eh okay.. But every president since before Ww2 is guilty of most of this.. Hence why I think American capitalism and so call democracy is a sham.. Puff of smoke to cloud the vision of people from being liberated from the shackles of the rich.

Note I agree Reagan is over stated in ending the cold War, but he did play a part, that said it was more the uter incompetence of the Soviet union to embrace change.,, to step back, to fix and right its own misguided ship that actually ended the cold war.

At least gorby had balls to know when the out the cards down and walk Away.

As for the rest.. Business as usual for every administration and corporation


Have reganomics flatline the economy ..

Or military action goes horribly wrong and escalates into Vietnam 2.0

Another option a few conspiracies prove to be true.. Cia is caught starting drug crisis..

The obvious aids spreads harder and faster before it's really understood.