AHC: Larger Russian Population in Alaska

[Ellis MacVey]

Okay so your challenge is simple: increase the Russian population of Alaska while still having it become an American territory and eventually an American state

You are allowed to have it become a territory or state under different circumstances

Bonus points if the Russian American population in Alaska are still largely Russophones

 

[Lalli]

Russia never sell Alaska to United States. History anyway progress more or less same way as in OTL and at end of Russian Civil War Kolchak evacuates his army and tens of thousands whites to Alaska and establishes new government there whilst mainland Russia is on hands of communists. Kolchak dies from heart attack in 1930's and he is replaced by extremist nationalist and pro-nazi dictator. During WW2 Alaska joins to Axis and participates to Barbarossa. USA enters to WW2 same way as in OTL and finally manages to take Alaska. The place is anyway so ruinous and without any capable leadership that it is made as territory and later state.

Yes, this is probably bit unlikely scenario.

 

[Ellis MacVey]

Russia never sell Alaska to United States. History anyway progress more or less same way as in OTL and at end of Russian Civil War Kolchak evacuates his army and tens of thousands whites to Alaska and establishes new government there whilst mainland Russia is on hands of communists. Kolchak dies from heart attack in 1930's and he is replaced by extremist nationalist and pro-nazi dictator. During WW2 Alaska joins to Axis and participates to Barbarossa. USA enters to WW2 same way as in OTL and finally manages to take Alaska. The place is anyway so ruinous and without any capable leadership that it is made as territory and later state.

Yes, this is probably bit unlikely scenario.

A more likely scenario would be the US just annexing Alaska after the Russian Revolution

 

[Insane Ranter]

A more likely scenario would be the US just annexing Alaska after the Russian Revolution

You will have a massive influx of Americans and Canadians if Skookum Jim and Company discover Gold in 1898. Will the Russians try to keep them out or not? Will they even be able too keep them out?

The other issue will be what the British do about this. They might try to take it and make it part of Canada?

 

[Ellis MacVey]

Will the Russians try to keep them out or not?

Yes

Will they even be able too keep them out?

Unlikely

 

[dartingfog]

USA enters to WW2 same way as in OTL

I think it's possible that with a toehold on the North American continent, the Axis powers might not attack Hawaii. Rather, the first attack on the USA could come from Nazi Germany. With Norway under Axis control, German planes might be able to fly from there over the North Pole and land in Alaska. From there, they could attack Washington state. This scenario's Pearl Harbor might instead be Puget Sound.

 

[Insane Ranter]

I think it's possible that with a toehold on the North American continent, the Axis powers might not attack Hawaii. Rather, the first attack on the USA could come from Nazi Germany. With Norway under Axis control, German planes might be able to fly from there over the North Pole and land in Alaska. From there, they could attack Washington state. This scenario's Pearl Harbor might instead be Puget Sound.

That's a 6000 miles flight over the pole, isn't it? New York City would be a closer flight. I am not even sure the Axis had planes that could fly that far.

 

[Lord High Executioner]

Russia never sell Alaska to United States. History anyway progress more or less same way as in OTL and at end of Russian Civil War Kolchak evacuates his army and tens of thousands whites to Alaska and establishes new government there whilst mainland Russia is on hands of communists. Kolchak dies from heart attack in 1930's and he is replaced by extremist nationalist and pro-nazi dictator. During WW2 Alaska joins to Axis and participates to Barbarossa. USA enters to WW2 same way as in OTL and finally manages to take Alaska. The place is anyway so ruinous and without any capable leadership that it is made as territory and later state.

Yes, this is probably bit unlikely scenario.

The Dominion of Canada would like to remind Axis Alaska that the latter shares a border with the British Empire...

 

[Ellis MacVey]

The Dominion of Canada would like to remind Axis Alaska that the latter shares a border with the British Empire...

Yea I don't see Alaska joining the Axis

 

[Lord High Executioner]

Yea I don't see Alaska joining the Axis

I was thinking more of "Axis Alaska has other things to prioritize than retaking the mainland after declaring war"
and "The US is not first in line to have a go at Axis Alaska once the war has begun".

 

[Sarthak]

The problem for prospective Russian immigrants was that they had all the uninhabited cold wide areas to settle down in Siberia and Transamur which is why so few of them crossed the bering into Alaska and why so many returned after the purchase. Some kind of service industry needs to be established in Alaska so that it can attract more russian settlers permanently.

 

[Lalli]

The problem for prospective Russian immigrants was that they had all the uninhabited cold wide areas to settle down in Siberia and Transamur which is why so few of them crossed the bering into Alaska and why so many returned after the purchase. Some kind of service industry needs to be established in Alaska so that it can attract more russian settlers permanently.

Couldn't Alaska work as punishment settlement for political dissidents and other trouble makers?

 

[dartingfog]

That's a 6000 miles flight over the pole, isn't it? New York City would be a closer flight. I am not even sure the Axis had planes that could fly that far.

It doesn't have to be made all in one trip. The most likely route would be something like Oslo > Svartnes (Vardo today) > Barrow > Anchorage > Seattle, refueling at every stop. The longest leg, Svartnes to Barrow, is only 2,600 miles (New York is 3,300 miles from occupied Brittany). Granted, Svartnes wasn't built in OTL until 1943, but we're talking about a POD of 1867 at the latest so there's the butterfly factor. I'm not sure when Barrow's airport opened, but it was at least in existence in 1935.

 

[AlternateEagle]

A Alaskan Russian Republic in exile would never join the axis.

 

[Ellis MacVey]

It doesn't have to be made all in one trip. The most likely route would be something like Oslo > Svartnes (Vardo today) > Barrow > Anchorage > Seattle, refueling at every stop. The longest leg, Svartnes to Barrow, is only 2,600 miles (New York is 3,300 miles from occupied Brittany). Granted, Svartnes wasn't built in OTL until 1943, but we're talking about a POD of 1867 at the latest so there's the butterfly factor. I'm not sure when Barrow's airport opened, but it was at least in existence in 1935.

A Alaskan Russian Republic in exile would NEVER join the axis.

Could we PLEASE stop talking about Alaska joining the Axis?

 

[Sacer Bubonicus]

Could we PLEASE stop talking about Alaska joining the Axis?

It was about as likely as Afghanistan joining the war on the Axis side. They were pro-Axis, but not suicidal.

I think it's possible that with a toehold on the North American continent, the Axis powers might not attack Hawaii. Rather, the first attack on the USA could come from Nazi Germany. With Norway under Axis control, German planes might be able to fly from there over the North Pole and land in Alaska. From there, they could attack Washington state. This scenario's Pearl Harbor might instead be Puget Sound.

That has nothing to do with why Japan actually attacked Pearl Harbor, so why the hell are you bringing it up?

The Germans didn't even want Japan to do it, but declared war on America afterward in the vain hope that doing so would result in Japan doing the same against the Soviet Union in a tit-for-tat manner, as if Japan didn't have enough problems on its plate already.

 

[Ellis MacVey]

It was about as likely as Afghanistan joining the war on the Axis side. They were pro-Axis, but not suicidal.

That has nothing to do with why Japan actually attacked Pearl Harbor, so why the hell are you bringing it up?

The Germans didn't even want Japan to do it, but declared war on America afterward in the vain hope that doing so would result in Japan doing the same against the Soviet Union in a tit-for-tat manner, as if Japan didn't have enough problems on its plate already.

Okay so Im really sorry if this is rude but I'm really pissed off right now and it might show through

I asked us to please stop derailing this thread with World War 2 discussion in the reply above yours

You literally quoted it in your reply

And you're still talking about World War 2

In a thread about Alaska having a larger Russian population

Could we please not do this?

 

[Sacer Bubonicus]

The Golovkin Embassy gets some of what it wanted -- namely, inclusion into the Canton system and the reopening of the Russian embassy in Beijing. This allows Russian ships from Kamchatka to buy Chinese grain to feed Alaska, and then return with Alaskan furs and other such produce.

This allows the Alaska colony to avoid the food problems that constrained its growth IOTL and eventually caused the Russians to go after California.
The Russian-American Company becomes richer and finances further colonization, possibly even to the extent of colonizing Hawaii as a sugar plantation.

 

[Basils]

A more likely scenario would be the US just annexing Alaska after the Russian Revolution

Wonder if it would be under the Monroe doctrine? I think it’s interesting and wonder what the USA would do if a red Russia was in North America? Canada too would probably want to occupy it as well. Having a massive border with a communist nation would not be welcomed by most

 

[Ellis MacVey]

Wonder if it would be under the Monroe doctrine? I think it’s interesting and wonder what the USA would do if a red Russia was in North America? Canada too would probably want to occupy it as well. Having a massive border with a communist nation would not be welcomed by most

I don't see how the Red Army could cross the Bering Straight

If the Russian Revolution happens in TTL that'll probably be when the US acquires Alaska