AHC: Have a Ratte Used In Combat
- Thread starter Gosing
- Start date
Is the Rat really that much less reasonable than the V- rockets that had terrible accuracies? Why not? And, remember, by late in the war, Hitler was hardly a the most rational actor.
Suppose Hitler chooses to do the Rat instead of the Panzer VIII Maus, deciding that land battleships are the thing of the future. Just one is assembled, in Berlin, of course. And Speer's less lucky about canceling in TTL, with more support from Hitler.
Of course, it can hardly move atall- just barely, within a particular square where it's assembled. It's finally ready in mid '44. Training starts in earnest when Allied armies approach. Of course, it makes no big difference, because it'd have no mobiility atall. But it IS a pain and two halves to kill; ITTL, it's still in that square in Berlin.
Suppose Hitler chooses to do the Rat instead of the Panzer VIII Maus, deciding that land battleships are the thing of the future. Just one is assembled, in Berlin, of course. And Speer's less lucky about canceling in TTL, with more support from Hitler.
Of course, it can hardly move atall- just barely, within a particular square where it's assembled. It's finally ready in mid '44. Training starts in earnest when Allied armies approach. Of course, it makes no big difference, because it'd have no mobiility atall. But it IS a pain and two halves to kill; ITTL, it's still in that square in Berlin.
Er, quick logistics question. I assume roads and autobahns are off limits to this behemoth if the Reich ever wants to keep their transportation network intact. How would you move the Ratte around? How would it navigate rail crossings? Bridges?
Argh, my head hurts thinking about it!
Argh, my head hurts thinking about it!
IIRC, It was intended to fjord rivers. Imagine crossing the Rhine by driving along the fucking bottom.
I think a better question would be what doesn't get built if the Ratte does. IMHO, one would have to write off the Tiger during the planning stages in order for the Ratte to see both production and combat before War's end, assuming the war doesn't end up significantly shorter due to butterflies.
It sort of fits in with the fortress mentality. I could see it being assembled from components wherever it is intended to take up a defensive position. On the other hand, why not just use concrete?
So a marginally mobile fortress that can bombard targets tens of kilometres away. But where?
So a marginally mobile fortress that can bombard targets tens of kilometres away. But where?
usertron2020
Donor
Meanwhile, at Second Tactical Air Force HQ
Air Marshal Sir Arthur Coningham looks at a picture of a p. 1500 and two p. 1000's approaching the Normandy beach head, and says to no one in particular: "Me and my little Typhoons..."
Air Marshal Sir Arthur Coningham looks at a picture of a p. 1500 and two p. 1000's approaching the Normandy beach head, and says to no one in particular: "Me and my little Typhoons..."
loughery111
Banned
Meanwhile, at Second Tactical Air Force HQ
Air Marshal Sir Arthur Coningham looks at a picture of a p. 1500 and two p. 1000's approaching the Normandy beach head, and says to no one in particular: "Me and my little Typhoons..."
Or someone decides that an area bombardment with an offshore flotilla is sufficient to deal with the problem; I don't give a crap what armor they put on those things, plunging fire from 8-, 12-, and 16-inch guns WILL destroy them.
All of the responses on this thread make me .
Here's an idea: Hitler being Hitler, he takes a liking to the idea of the P. 1000 (maybe he thinks it'll be the perfect weapon to get rid of those pesky Americans and British once and for all), shooting down Speer's cancellation. Of course, it takes a looooooonnng time to develop and almost as long to produce, but maybe the Germans do a bit better in the East and delay the Battle of Berlin by a month or so-just in time to rush in a P. 1000 that has somehow been hidden from air raids. The Red Army soon learns the meaning of Goebbels' rants about a "superweapon"...
Of course, it'll take ASBs to make the Ratte actually useful in combat of any kind, and in this scenario the Soviets would probably just back up and destroy it with air power.
Is that at least moderately plausible?
.Here's an idea: Hitler being Hitler, he takes a liking to the idea of the P. 1000 (maybe he thinks it'll be the perfect weapon to get rid of those pesky Americans and British once and for all), shooting down Speer's cancellation. Of course, it takes a looooooonnng time to develop and almost as long to produce, but maybe the Germans do a bit better in the East and delay the Battle of Berlin by a month or so-just in time to rush in a P. 1000 that has somehow been hidden from air raids. The Red Army soon learns the meaning of Goebbels' rants about a "superweapon"...
Of course, it'll take ASBs to make the Ratte actually useful in combat of any kind, and in this scenario the Soviets would probably just back up and destroy it with air power.
Is that at least moderately plausible?
IIRC, the 80 cm kanones were conceived for attacking the Maginot line.
Meanwhile, at Second Tactical Air Force HQ
Air Marshal Sir Arthur Coningham looks at a picture of a p. 1500 and two p. 1000's approaching the Normandy beach head, and says to no one in particular: "Me and my little Typhoons..."
Could it one-shot an Allied ship first?
Push POD further back...
There were a couple of monster tanks proposed and prototyped at end of WW1, but common sense mostly prevailed. If UK, France & Germany, not to mention Russia, got into a super-tank-race rather than France building Maginot Line, then tracked monsters might have flourished between the wars...
Several were, in fact, designed in the run up to WW2...
You'd need bespoke landing ships to get BEF ashore, and they'd all have to be equipped for deep-wading to cross rivers etc. Ratte & Maus would just be the self-propelled super-gun elements of a much larger opposition...
Google for TOG tank, tortoise tank, super heavy tank, FCM_F1 etc, not to mention the improbable Tsar Tank-- If only the latter had had caterpillar tracks on its tail-roller...
There were a couple of monster tanks proposed and prototyped at end of WW1, but common sense mostly prevailed. If UK, France & Germany, not to mention Russia, got into a super-tank-race rather than France building Maginot Line, then tracked monsters might have flourished between the wars...
Several were, in fact, designed in the run up to WW2...
You'd need bespoke landing ships to get BEF ashore, and they'd all have to be equipped for deep-wading to cross rivers etc. Ratte & Maus would just be the self-propelled super-gun elements of a much larger opposition...
Google for TOG tank, tortoise tank, super heavy tank, FCM_F1 etc, not to mention the improbable Tsar Tank-- If only the latter had had caterpillar tracks on its tail-roller...
Can you put dive brakes on a lancaster?
Nope. Making a bomber capable of diving is a lot of work-Udet's demand that all new German bombers dive slowed down their design work by several years.
The Ratte would make a stinking huge artillery target.
Nope. Making a bomber capable of diving is a lot of work-Udet's demand that all new German bombers dive slowed down their design work by several years.
The Ratte would make a stinking huge artillery target.
No dive brakes on a Lanc never stopped Micky Martin from diving one..
Also: I looked at the track proportions and dimensions of the P.1500, and while I might be wrong, I estimated the ground pressure to be...
5 psi. 5! Compare that to the Panther at (12psi) and the Sherman at (14). I'm not saying the P.1500 would have been feasible, but it's still surprising.
I wonder how you say that in German...
5 psi. 5! Compare that to the Panther at (12psi) and the Sherman at (14). I'm not saying the P.1500 would have been feasible, but it's still surprising.
I wonder how you say that in German...