Caribbean slavery was infamously even more brutal than in the US, and Haiti is perhaps the most infamous example of that. While it may not be after independence, if the colony had adopted a more "moderate" form of slavery (quotes because chattel slavery and its race-based caste are always among the worst form thereof) with more education for slaves- literacy, for example, and the inclusion of slaves in administering each other such as the overseers in the US, that could lead to better management than OTL. Perhaps that and no debt could help? It would most certainly also help to keep some white people around for again, administrative and so that Briain and the US are less hostile
AHC: Haiti is a First-world country
- Thread starter Tre' T.
- Start date
Haiti's payment of indemnity is not the reason why its poor, as we can see from the late 1860s to 1911 that they are doing a very good job economically and even became a model of growth to latin america. Its the failure of the government to rebuild the economy and its disastrous policies like the land reform of Petion. Still if they are to become stable and do things mainly competently. I assume that we are looking at a fairly prosperous lat am country if theyre lucky. There is also a problem of military spending which is very high which means less money invested to the cash crop industry and the economy and infra
reposting an old scenario:
Dessalines is killed in one of the closing battles of the Haitian War of Independence against the forces of Rochambeau.
Henri Christophe takes over and prosecutes the final battles, becoming the architect of independence. Cristophe IMO is the most stable option, as he kept Haiti profitable and militarily secure, even if it was at the expense of Republican virtues. In the following scenario I think I lay out a scenario where Haiti can become stable under Cristophe’s Kingdom and a functioning Republic after.
He assumes control of the new nation, and soon starts to implement his royalist vision, but over the entirety of Haiti. He also avoids the excesses of Dessalines’ regime, prioritizing feudalism, titles to maintain profits and a strong military while avoiding pointless things like the 1804 massacre realizing the bad publicity it would cause. However, his actions at creating a monarchy ignore the creole elite in the south who under Alexander Petion begin conspiring. A few years into his presidency, forces loyal to Alexander Petion attempt to assassinate him at his royal headquarters in Port-Au-Prince. They fail, but not without wounding and partially disabling Henri Christophe. Still, his palace guard comes to his aid and after rioting in the streets of Port-Au-Prince which is eventually quelled, and the conspirators arrested, Cristophe makes the decision to leave port-au-prince and the south and create a new capital in the north where he has the most support. He begins the process of building Cap-Henry into a shining capital with a great palace, while continuing to fund a large army to maintain control of the South with its many rebels. He is able to hold the south despite creoles attempting to form a republic due to him acceding and granting some creole collaborators royal titles in the south, as well as through the enormous profits his feudal administration creates. In 1820 he suffers a stroke, but due to his prior disability does not spiral into depression but clings on for 5 more years keeping Haiti steady in spite of rebellions until he passes in his sleep and his now 21 and better equipped to rule son takes over. Henri II rules from Cap-Henry for almost 20 years from 1825 until 1842, keeping his fathers regime stable while relaxing feudal practices somewhat. Diplomacy is entered with neighboring Spanish Haiti but no invasions are drawn up, with it likely joining Colombia, and providing a friendly continental neighbor which safeguards Haiti well into the future. In 1842, Cap-Henry is still struck by a massive earthquake which leaves the entire monarchy dead. Those republican elements which had been struggling against the monarchy now have no monarchy to struggle against, and a peaceful transition of power occurs. The lords of the island's aristocracy meet with the republicans, and an imperfect democracy is created, which maintains the lords rights while creating popularly elected councils and a presidency. The resulting constitution is not unlike the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1843_Constitution_of_Haiti but with much of the military elite having died at Cap-Henry, there is no general to seize power, and the parliamentary system established survives.
Jonathas Granville lives longer ITTL, assuming he was assassinated IOTl, and is elected president of the new republic, it having been an institution founded on his principles. This makes Haiti’s first president a true republican. He does not break his term limits and is succeeded by another stalwart republican. Since Granville is a mulatto, his vp will likely be black as will the president who succeeds him, alternating every few terms.
In sum, a Haiti that is profitable until industries other than sugar can be developed, defended from France, has a significant ally and trading partner at its border in Colombia, and is relatively stable by Latin American standards with a clear line of succession.
Interestingly, if Granville were inaugurated as president in 1842/43 , he would have been about the same age as George Washington when he was inaugurated, 57. The comparisons would be apt
Dessalines is killed in one of the closing battles of the Haitian War of Independence against the forces of Rochambeau.
Henri Christophe takes over and prosecutes the final battles, becoming the architect of independence. Cristophe IMO is the most stable option, as he kept Haiti profitable and militarily secure, even if it was at the expense of Republican virtues. In the following scenario I think I lay out a scenario where Haiti can become stable under Cristophe’s Kingdom and a functioning Republic after.
He assumes control of the new nation, and soon starts to implement his royalist vision, but over the entirety of Haiti. He also avoids the excesses of Dessalines’ regime, prioritizing feudalism, titles to maintain profits and a strong military while avoiding pointless things like the 1804 massacre realizing the bad publicity it would cause. However, his actions at creating a monarchy ignore the creole elite in the south who under Alexander Petion begin conspiring. A few years into his presidency, forces loyal to Alexander Petion attempt to assassinate him at his royal headquarters in Port-Au-Prince. They fail, but not without wounding and partially disabling Henri Christophe. Still, his palace guard comes to his aid and after rioting in the streets of Port-Au-Prince which is eventually quelled, and the conspirators arrested, Cristophe makes the decision to leave port-au-prince and the south and create a new capital in the north where he has the most support. He begins the process of building Cap-Henry into a shining capital with a great palace, while continuing to fund a large army to maintain control of the South with its many rebels. He is able to hold the south despite creoles attempting to form a republic due to him acceding and granting some creole collaborators royal titles in the south, as well as through the enormous profits his feudal administration creates. In 1820 he suffers a stroke, but due to his prior disability does not spiral into depression but clings on for 5 more years keeping Haiti steady in spite of rebellions until he passes in his sleep and his now 21 and better equipped to rule son takes over. Henri II rules from Cap-Henry for almost 20 years from 1825 until 1842, keeping his fathers regime stable while relaxing feudal practices somewhat. Diplomacy is entered with neighboring Spanish Haiti but no invasions are drawn up, with it likely joining Colombia, and providing a friendly continental neighbor which safeguards Haiti well into the future. In 1842, Cap-Henry is still struck by a massive earthquake which leaves the entire monarchy dead. Those republican elements which had been struggling against the monarchy now have no monarchy to struggle against, and a peaceful transition of power occurs. The lords of the island's aristocracy meet with the republicans, and an imperfect democracy is created, which maintains the lords rights while creating popularly elected councils and a presidency. The resulting constitution is not unlike the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1843_Constitution_of_Haiti but with much of the military elite having died at Cap-Henry, there is no general to seize power, and the parliamentary system established survives.
Jonathas Granville lives longer ITTL, assuming he was assassinated IOTl, and is elected president of the new republic, it having been an institution founded on his principles. This makes Haiti’s first president a true republican. He does not break his term limits and is succeeded by another stalwart republican. Since Granville is a mulatto, his vp will likely be black as will the president who succeeds him, alternating every few terms.
In sum, a Haiti that is profitable until industries other than sugar can be developed, defended from France, has a significant ally and trading partner at its border in Colombia, and is relatively stable by Latin American standards with a clear line of succession.
Interestingly, if Granville were inaugurated as president in 1842/43 , he would have been about the same age as George Washington when he was inaugurated, 57. The comparisons would be apt
If they reach the "magical number", US$ 20,000 GDP per capita (which is half of France's), they'll be first world regardless.
We can assume Haiti (as New Caledonia) won't be merged into France, remaining an overseas territory and therefore quasi-independent.
My Father was a leader of an Anti-Duvalier resistance group and made me read as much of Haitian history as possible growing up. So to simply put it would be impossible to make Haiti as rich as the first world, by our current date. Definitely possible for it to on par with the rest of Latin America but not first world levels.
An easy way to get it near on par with Latin America would just be removing Duvalier as he massively increase the deforestation of the nation, killed tens of thousands of people and lead upward of 1.5 million of the countries best professionals leave the nation.
And to reply to some ideas:
- "Haïti should have remained a part of France/the Revolution should have not happened."
Remaining a part of France was Toussaint's goal but Napoleon wanted direct control and slavery thus the war continued. Not only that both General Leclerc and Rochambeau wanted to exterminate all blacks and mixed people above the age of 12 and Rochambeau went as far as doing the same whites. Wild man-eating dogs, gas chambers, mass drowning and summery execution was all done by Rochambeau to kill off the entire population. Under these conditions no one wanted to remain with France.
As for the revolution never happening then in large part slavery across the world would still exist and change how the entire world developed
-"Haiti with no debts to France."
It would be for the best for Haiti to not have those debts but how to make France believe that Haiti would not be a good source of easy money. Which most likely be a war with France again in the 1820s which I do see a possibility that Haiti could have won having a 50,000 strong army of veterans of the revolution and have terrain, diseases and the population on Haiti's advantage. With a another defeat in Haiti France may learn not to mess with Haiti.
-"Pétion's reforms never happens"
Although not the best economically was for the best for Haiti socially the minimizing the class difference between the workers and owners on the plantations which helped Haïti not have massive peasant uprising until the 1840s, that were also seen in on the plantation based economy of The Kingdom of Haiti.
An easy way to get it near on par with Latin America would just be removing Duvalier as he massively increase the deforestation of the nation, killed tens of thousands of people and lead upward of 1.5 million of the countries best professionals leave the nation.
And to reply to some ideas:
- "Haïti should have remained a part of France/the Revolution should have not happened."
Remaining a part of France was Toussaint's goal but Napoleon wanted direct control and slavery thus the war continued. Not only that both General Leclerc and Rochambeau wanted to exterminate all blacks and mixed people above the age of 12 and Rochambeau went as far as doing the same whites. Wild man-eating dogs, gas chambers, mass drowning and summery execution was all done by Rochambeau to kill off the entire population. Under these conditions no one wanted to remain with France.
As for the revolution never happening then in large part slavery across the world would still exist and change how the entire world developed
-"Haiti with no debts to France."
It would be for the best for Haiti to not have those debts but how to make France believe that Haiti would not be a good source of easy money. Which most likely be a war with France again in the 1820s which I do see a possibility that Haiti could have won having a 50,000 strong army of veterans of the revolution and have terrain, diseases and the population on Haiti's advantage. With a another defeat in Haiti France may learn not to mess with Haiti.
-"Pétion's reforms never happens"
Although not the best economically was for the best for Haiti socially the minimizing the class difference between the workers and owners on the plantations which helped Haïti not have massive peasant uprising until the 1840s, that were also seen in on the plantation based economy of The Kingdom of Haiti.
Haiti remains part of France having a development similar to that of Guadeloupe until the 1960s when France decides to invest more money in infrastructure, education and development, achieving that by the early 2000s it has reached the standard of living of the metropolis. Years later, a referendum for independence is held, which is won by the separatist option.
Could avoiding the Duvaliers help? There's no way anyone could do worse than them.
An earlier POD would see Napoléon understanding he should kept Haiti as a friendly port to Louisiana - later, in Saint-Helena, he said to his confident he shouldn't have wasted resources on these royalist planters.
Another one would be Henri Christophe managing to unite Haiti.
An earlier POD would see Napoléon understanding he should kept Haiti as a friendly port to Louisiana - later, in Saint-Helena, he said to his confident he shouldn't have wasted resources on these royalist planters.
Another one would be Henri Christophe managing to unite Haiti.
Moreover, the military functioned like an authoritarian enclave, threatening democracy.
Yeah, destroying the cash cow wasn't the best idea Petion ever had.
You are aware that the slaves were around 90% of the population....
That said, someone talking Dessalines out of a full-on massacre (a policy of "You are no longer lords, and your estates are to be broken up if you have them. If you cannot deal pack your crap and leave, if you can deal than you are a fellow citizen and neither of us will forget it." would be optimal but likely require a personality transplant) would be a step in the right direction in terms of both international relations and skillsets needed to restructure/rebuild.
Chapman
Donor
I'm sorry, your father was a what? Leader of an Anti-Duvalier resistance group? That man must have some fascinating stories to say the least.
Too authoritarian, if Rigaud won against Toussaint or switched sides in 1802 he would make Haiti a plantocracy instead of what Dessalines and Toussaint wanted, a military dictatorship, meaning having a smaller army so that the plantations will have more workers. I think that would make a difference as it might put out the very high military spending in Haiti. Which iirc is about 90% in some cases in peace time after they agreed to pay the indemnity. If that money is instead invested on sugar, coffee, industry, infra and other stuff in the economy or rather used to pay the reparations. It would definitely help in my opinion
Darzin
Banned
A country can develop quickly given the right circumstances. See IOTL Singapore and South Korea. If Haiti gets the right leadership it could develop even from a fairly late POD. But it would really take a timeline to flesh out.
Perhaps it stays a monarchy providing more stability and in the Late 40s gets a young forward thinking King who leads the modernization of the country.
Perhaps it stays a monarchy providing more stability and in the Late 40s gets a young forward thinking King who leads the modernization of the country.
Singapore sat on one of the world's important trade choke points and I think Haiti is too far from Panama to take a similar role.
South Korea is an interesting analogy. My vague understanding is that due to the Japanese occupation there was no pre-existing power structure that completely co-opted the government. Thus when the government made investments in various companies it was less interested in getting that money back in the form of bribes to notice of the company's weren't actually doing the jobs they were supposed to do. A poster in another thread mentioned that there's a group in Haiti called the Gen De Couleur who traditionally would not be super incentivized to actually do the jobs they're supposed to do. The obvious analogy this suggests is long-term military occupation to destroy the old social orders, with the USA being the most likely candidate. Perhaps that worked out in South Korea, but that doesn't seem like a reliable method for producing stable states with good economic development
South Korea is an interesting analogy. My vague understanding is that due to the Japanese occupation there was no pre-existing power structure that completely co-opted the government. Thus when the government made investments in various companies it was less interested in getting that money back in the form of bribes to notice of the company's weren't actually doing the jobs they were supposed to do. A poster in another thread mentioned that there's a group in Haiti called the Gen De Couleur who traditionally would not be super incentivized to actually do the jobs they're supposed to do. The obvious analogy this suggests is long-term military occupation to destroy the old social orders, with the USA being the most likely candidate. Perhaps that worked out in South Korea, but that doesn't seem like a reliable method for producing stable states with good economic development
I mean, the slaves will obviously be a part of any future state if it wants to succeed in the long term. That being said, I just don't think they can do it alone. Certainly, even if they went it alone that doesn't mean that things couldn't be better than they are/have been iotl. Look at the Dominican Republic, they(we) are not a perfect society by any stretch, but not having violence between the classes and just along broadly political lines did a lot less long term damage. Maybe if you can, somehow, create a scenario, in France to galvanize the entirety or most of Haiti to want to go it's own way, together, you've definitely got a shot but I don't think it fits with OPs prompt. Haiti doesn't have the natural resources or human capital to reach "1st world" status, imo. I mean, depending on your definition of first world, would that mean they have to be equal to the U.S and Canada? I mean, even reaching the DR's level of prosperity is a challenge post-1804, imo.
Lets go for the 1802 rout,
In 1802 he switches sides as he heard news that france would take away the rights of the mulattoes. The Haitian revolution continues like otl, but instead of Petion being its leader, Rigaud would stay in its place as its leader. Where in the final battles, Dessalines, Henri Christophe and co. dies giving way to the leadership of Rigaud and his buddies.
Where Rigaud finishes the war, establishes Haiti as a republic with both french and american virtues, but only placing the right to vote to property owning men. Technically empowering the elites instead of the military. Not alienating them like what Dessalines did which resulted into his overthrow. Later he disbands the army to a small force and instead rely on militias as they were cheaper knowing that there are not much threats outside. And begun putting people back to work to plantations by forcing them to pay head taxes and all sorts of taxes that can only be paid in cash prompting them to work to the plantations to earn the money to pay the taxes. Whereas the militia and the military would be used to quell unrest. Instead of forcing them directly at gunpoint like Christophe and Dessalines did, which alienated people. Rigaud would later focus on the rehabilitation of the sugar and coffee industry, where he would trade with the British and other countries that were willing to trade with them, still no recognition, but he would be able to restore the production of sugar and coffee bigger than before the revolution, technically making the economy bigger pre revolution by 1810. Technically giving the government revenue mainly through export duties. He later would designate Joseph Balthazar Inginac as his bet for the Presidency the man who engineered most of the projects in Haiti as he retires in early 1811.
In 1812 the US would open trade with Haiti to mainly buy Haitian coffee due to shortages bc of the war of the 1812 but would still not recognize it. This gives them a bigger market to sell their goods into, putting the coffee on boom.
Later as law and order broke down in 1821 in DR Inginac sent troops under Boyer to technically restore law and order, not wanting the unrest to spread to Haiti, helping them restore order. Later he placed a referendum on either they should join Haiti, be Independent or Join Gran Colombia. The elites of DR voted for Independence and later negociated the border with Boyer, placing the border at 71st meridian west. Later paying for his troops just to leave DR and taking their entire treasury with them.
Napoleonic wars ends and Louis XVIII begins threatening the invasion of Haiti, mainly considered a bluff by Haiti as due to the state where France is. Later with france a bit more stable and now under Charles X in 1824, France threatened to blockade Haiti if they are not to pay reparations, which can result into the economy going crashing down. In the middle of negotiations Iginiac died in office, he was considering to ignore french demands. This was against the interest of the elites as this would disrupt trade have their workers conscripted to be soldiers, and begun plotting against him with General Jean Pierre Boyer who was one of the leaders of the peace faction in congress. But with his unexpected death, congress called in a snap elections where the elites unilaterally elected Boyer. Boyer would negotiate with the French agreeing to pay the reparations worth 100M Francs, from 150M due to him placing half import duties and tarrifs to french goods for 10 years. France in return will recognize Haiti and would open diplomatic and trade relations with Haiti. Boyer would for negotiate for a 20M franc loan for the payment of indemnity in addition to the 10M francs from the treasury. And he later took another 10M franc loan to be invested in the country. With recognition by France, by the next 2 years almost everyone in Europe followed suit, opening trade and diplomatic relations with Haiti. Resulted into Haiti drastically increasing sugar, coffee and other cash crops production, making huge money on it, using the huge surplus money mainly to help on paying the indemnity
Haiti later pays all of the indemnity in the mid 1840s, Boyer dies in office in 1850, replaced by a member of the elite instead of the military, later recognized by the US in 1860s.
Boyer, Petion, and Christophe if I remember correctly was promoting education established schools and did things to promote education, instability, poor management, and bad policies and failure to rebuild the economy imo is what we are to blame here. If they successfully rebuild the coffee and sugar industry and resume trade with anyone who wanted to trade with them mainly mainly bringing back the productivity or even higher that was found on colonial days, there are nations trading with them like the UK. Means they will have money through export duties from sugar and coffee. Even if France forces them to pay reparations, it would not be as much of a burden like otl, as here with they will be having a steady source of income. And it also means they would open trade with france meaning bigger market to sell more sugar and coffee to sell = more revenue and more money to invest in the country
Crazy Boris
Banned
Getting Haiti to the same economic standard as the USA is near impossible, being a small country puts it at a disadvantage immediately since less land = less resources. But, I think getting it to the same levels as its neighbors is fairly easy.
Changes in the revolution and post-independence period and a lack of debts to France wouldn’t hurt, but they’re not going to do much in the long run. No Dessalines and no money being tossed at Paris could help improve things earlier, but I think the two best ideas have already been brought up but not given the attention they deserve
1-Don’t bother annexing Spanish Haiti, no real benefits, just 200 years of rivalry with the Dominicans. Also, with Spanish Haiti looking to join Gran Colombia, a country that Haiti’s already on good terms with, it could be a huge benefit, since even after Gran Colombia breaks up, Haiti will have plenty of friends in the region to lend a hand if need be and trade with. A friendly DR also means no parsley massacres, which is just a bonus in general. Have someone slap some sense into Boyer, or get him out of the picture.
2-No Duvalier.
I think this is probably the biggest one. Haiti before Papa Doc was already on its way to becoming a tourist hotspot, which, as we all know, means big money in the Caribbean. He sank that ship pretty fast, then just sort of dragged the country around as a borderline pariah state for the rest of his life. Keeping him out of the presidency means Haiti can take full advantage of tourism, and keep stronger ties with the rest of the world for development. At the very least, I can see it being on par with the other Greater Antilles countries like Jamaica and Cuba.
Changes in the revolution and post-independence period and a lack of debts to France wouldn’t hurt, but they’re not going to do much in the long run. No Dessalines and no money being tossed at Paris could help improve things earlier, but I think the two best ideas have already been brought up but not given the attention they deserve
1-Don’t bother annexing Spanish Haiti, no real benefits, just 200 years of rivalry with the Dominicans. Also, with Spanish Haiti looking to join Gran Colombia, a country that Haiti’s already on good terms with, it could be a huge benefit, since even after Gran Colombia breaks up, Haiti will have plenty of friends in the region to lend a hand if need be and trade with. A friendly DR also means no parsley massacres, which is just a bonus in general. Have someone slap some sense into Boyer, or get him out of the picture.
2-No Duvalier.
I think this is probably the biggest one. Haiti before Papa Doc was already on its way to becoming a tourist hotspot, which, as we all know, means big money in the Caribbean. He sank that ship pretty fast, then just sort of dragged the country around as a borderline pariah state for the rest of his life. Keeping him out of the presidency means Haiti can take full advantage of tourism, and keep stronger ties with the rest of the world for development. At the very least, I can see it being on par with the other Greater Antilles countries like Jamaica and Cuba.