AHC: Dystopian Australia (2.0)

John Fredrick Parker

Donor
With a PoD sometime in the last century, how bad - as in how authoritarian, aggressively racist, environmentally fucked, what have you - can Australia be, either by 2020 or at any point in the 20th Century compared with the OTL counterpoint time frame?

What PoD works best, in terms of derailing the country as completely as quickly as possible? Doing less well against the Japanese in WWII? Defiantly holding onto Papua New Guinea and/or Bougainville? No Bob Hawke?

And depending on which PoD we go with, what other factors could accelerate the slide into dystopia? Paramilitaries? Worse environmental, immigration, or other policy? Becoming a republic?

I asked roughly this a few years ago, but I figured - especially with the ongoing crises (the bushfires and the PM’s, er, response being foremost in my mind) - now would be as good a time as any to revisit the idea.
 

Riain

Banned
Perhaps have WA secede in the 30s.

Have the Bradfield scheme be attempted and half-arsed in such a way that it's a total nightmare, a bit like the Aral Sea.
 

Sam R.

Monash activates the white army in 1921 to the point where he’s invited by the GG. There’s a horthyite 20th century with Fenian and Labour unrest.(Cathcart. National tuckshop).
 

Sam R.

You’d need slightly more than the historical Police Strike. But there’s the trades hall reds and the IWW to supply that. Monash’s white army was more extensive than the historically activated component. Say Billy the shit side steps rule of law for conscription. That’s enough to get you an interesting 1921.

Monash of course would be a very interesting fascist compared to others. Antisemetism not being a strain. Shame about the died race though.
 

Jellico

Colonel Grubb said:
Don’t you worry about that:coldsweat:
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Okay. That is the internet won for the day.


245 said:
how bad was he?
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Depends on who you were. He didn't keep winning on gerrymander alone. Like with most authoritarian governments if you were mainstream you were mostly okay. Heck QLD went ahead big time during his tenure, though again, timing is a huge deal in how successful a politician is deemed and Joh got the Japanese boom and the 80s.
If you weren't mainstream life could get uncomfortable. Censorship was something that effected the more mainstream groups. A lot of "ist"s get used with Joh, and while he was some of them, I suspect being a corrupt opportunist is the best description.

Also remember QLD is "different" and was* and is continually reminded of it by the Mexicans. Joh aggressively stood up for QLD and it was appreciated. Take away the "us and them "he plays less well.

Personally I see Joh as a case of being careful what you wish for. QLD is traditionally Labor at a state level. Agrarian socialists if you will. Labor set up the unicameral parliament and other structures for their own desires to stay in power. Joh just used them better and longer. So when you set up systems to support your own side of politics just remember that the other side can too.


*In the last 40 years a lot of southerners have moved into South East QLD diluting the hate a bit. I suspect most came from Ramsey St. In the 80s "Banana Bender" wasn't just humorous.
 
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Colonel Grubb

Pretty much agree with your entire post @Jellico you raise a good number of points that often get overlooked in the simplified view of Joh. I‘d add as well that the Labour split also helped Joh as well.

As a Qlder who moved south just shy of ten years ago, I tend to see the real difference in outlooks and differences is now not at the Tweed, but rather the rest of Queensland outside of the South East corner, which has changed dramatically and become much more cosmopolitan no far behind Sydney and Melbourne.
 

Riain

Banned
John Fredrick Parker said:
like the sound of West Australia secession (as AH); for our purposes, how does it contribute to dystopia (eg less money for East Australia)
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Yes, the money is one thing but what happens in ww2? Does WA remain neutral, does it become an ally of Australia, does it possibly even assist Japan? What about the Indonesian confrontation and the rest of the Cold War?
 

John Fredrick Parker

Donor
Riain said:
Yes, the money is one thing but what happens in ww2? Does WA remain neutral, does it become an ally of Australia, does it possibly even assist Japan? What about the Indonesian confrontation and the rest of the Cold War?
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Well assuming their still part of the Commonwealth, I would fully expect that WA would declare war on Japan with the rest; maybe being independent raises some coordination issues, but Perth certainly isn’t going to feel any more secure if Darwin is threatened. Now maybe, maybe, depending on how it became independent, WA is a republic with complex feelings about doing Sydney any favors, but even then that doesn’t mean they’re ready to stand aside in the face of aggression to their north and east.

As to Cold War Indonesia, I’m afraid I don’t know enough about that subject to even judge how important Australian contributions to any of the conflicts were, much less how (if at all) a sovereign WA would change things.
 

Colonel Grubb

John Fredrick Parker said:
Well assuming their still part of the Commonwealth, I would fully expect that WA would declare war on Japan with the rest; maybe being independent raises some coordination issues, but Perth certainly isn’t going to feel any more secure if Darwin is threatened. Now maybe, maybe, depending on how it became independent, WA is a republic with complex feelings about doing Sydney any favors, but even then that doesn’t mean they’re ready to stand aside in the face of aggression to their north and east.
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Well according to the WA Yearbook 1936-37 and Australian Yearbook 1936, there were 438,852 persons (47.2% metropolitan, 10.2% provincial, 41.7% rural).
In 1934 data, the annual value of mineral wealth from WA is massive - £5,884,430, though gold made up 94% of that. This mineral wealth value represented about 29% of Australia's total mineral wealth produced that year.
In terms of Commonwealth payments, 1934-35 WA received £1,206,432 or 12% of all payments to states/territories. So that's gone.
£9,331,430 total consolidated state revenue in WA:
Taxation (c)1,900,086
Business Undertakings4,970,231
Territorial406,241
Commonwealth payments (b)1,206,432
Interest .,358,637
Miscellaneous487,803
Total9,331,430

The other issue will be WA's access to loans from overseas. Depending on the nature of the split, London money may be less than thrilled. Also, I doubt the Commonwealth is going forgot all the existing loans that WA had to this point
 
flippikat

flippikat

Colonel Grubb said:
Pretty much agree with your entire post @Jellico

As a Qlder who moved south just shy of ten years ago, I tend to see the real difference in outlooks and differences is now not at the Tweed, but rather the rest of Queensland outside of the South East corner, which has changed dramatically and become much more cosmopolitan no far behind Sydney and Melbourne.
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Good point. I have a lot of in-laws who migrated from New Zealand to Brisbane about 20 years ago, and from the times I've been to visit them, Brisbane/SE Qld definately has an increasingly cosmopolitan vibe. I've even heard some talk of North Queensland breaking away to be a separate state, given the differences in outlook over things like daylight savings & immigration.
 

Jellico

States or parts of states breaking away doesn't make Australia dystopia. You need to find a way to stop the continent making money. Eg. no Marinos? But you also need a population of people to make it unpleasantly dystopian so that makes it 20thC or later. Unfortunately the only way I see that happening is some kind of environmental based scenario. Eg the great artesian basin is poisoned/runs dry.
 

Riain

Banned
WA seceding won't make a dystopia, it just makes thing more complicated and annoying and creates fertile ground for other things to add up to shit.
 
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