AHC: Christian Communism in the United States Anytime After 1900

VirginiaHistoryTeacher · Nov 23, 2015

Just like it says. Have the United States embrace a theocratic communist government anytime after the turn of the 20th century. Bonus points if they do this without Soviet influence. Extra bonus points if they do this before OTL Russian Civil War/Communist Revolution.

Incorporate the logo into a flag if you'd like.

alter · Nov 23, 2015

Caliper and sickle?

VirginiaHistoryTeacher · Nov 23, 2015

Cross, Hammer, and Sickle

GeographyDude · Nov 23, 2015

AHC: Christian Communism in the United States Anytime After 1900

now, per just this title, doesn't need to form a governing party ? ?

A substantial minority party might really shake things up. For example, corporations would no longer be so much in ascendency during the 20th century. Might make for a pretty interesting ATL.

GeographyDude · Nov 23, 2015

And we'll keep our flag, thank you very much.

It will just mean even more so, We the People. And not, we the corporations.

VirginiaHistoryTeacher · Nov 24, 2015

Bumping this. Still curious as to how the board thinks this might turn out and how things could get there, if possible/plausible

Red Cesar · Nov 24, 2015

Wouldn't work in America...what you're talking about is called Liberation Theology, an explicitly Catholic movement. America simply doesn't have enough catholics to make this happen. Try South America, much more likely.

VirginiaHistoryTeacher · Nov 24, 2015

Red Cesar said:
Wouldn't work in America...what you're talking about is called Liberation Theology, an explicitly Catholic movement. America simply doesn't have enough catholics to make this happen. Try South America, much more likely.

Yeah I looked at Oscar Romero and other Catholic leaders. I'm guessing it would require a Catholic America, which goes back to England somehow remaining Catholic yet still colonizing America in much the same way and no one going Protestant somehow. Such butterflies.

willbell · Nov 24, 2015

Red Cesar said:
Wouldn't work in America...what you're talking about is called Liberation Theology, an explicitly Catholic movement. America simply doesn't have enough catholics to make this happen. Try South America, much more likely.

Liberation Theology isn't the only game in town for Christian communism, it isn't even close to the first. Look as far back as Leo Tolstoy, an Orthodox Christian iirc, who cooperated with protestants in the new world to spread the message of anarcho-pascifism.

Lost Freeway · Nov 25, 2015

The real trouble is that communism is explicitly anti-religion, which caused many American Christians to reject it out-of-hand IOTL.

Tom Colton · Nov 25, 2015

VirginiaHistoryTeacher said:
Cross, Hammer, and Sickle

Not without precedent:

Steve Brinson · Nov 25, 2015

Perhaps if Norman Thomas gains more prominence? If I recall correctly, he was a Christian Socialist. Granted, not enough, but it's a start.

VirginiaHistoryTeacher · Nov 25, 2015

Lost Freeway said:
The real trouble is that communism is explicitly anti-religion, which caused many American Christians to reject it out-of-hand IOTL.

Communism isn't explicitly anti-religious. Granted, the Soviet Union was atheistic in their approach, but many Christian communists use Acts 2:43-47 and Acts 4:32-35 as their foundation. The context behind those passages isn't designed to support communism, but that doesn't stop/hasn't stopped Christian communists from using it.

Salvador79 · Dec 9, 2015

There were highly egalitarian Protestant movements, too, like radical Leveller groups in England. Some such groups emigrated to America, too.

But getting the US to have such a government in the 20th century requires the history of that country throughout the 19th century to take a very different course. The US defused their social conflicts throughout said century basically by using the frontier in the West as an outlet. No radical leftist movement will ever grow without intense social conflicts. I think here - not in any cultural, religious or philosophical domains - lies the key to bringing about a left-wing revolution or government takeover in the US in the 20th century.

Alexander the Average · Dec 10, 2015

Not sure if this would be enough to have a full blown Christian Communism, and it might be a bit ASB, but I have an interesting scenario.

IOTL Norman Thomas and Huey Long had a public debate in 1934 over the merits of socialism, with Thomas arguing for it and Long against it. Have Thomas decisively win the debate, which causes Long to embrace socialism as being the right path for America (either due to genuine conviction or because he thinks it will be a vote winner) and split from the Democrats to join the Socialist Party. This gives the Socialists a boost to their credibility, especially in Louisiana, and over time they are able to poach other left-leaning populist Democrats dissatisfied with Roosevelt. The Socialist Party grows in popularity, absorbing other minor left-wing and populist parties like that Farmer-Labour Party and Progressive Party. During the run up to the 1936 Presidential Norman Thomas stands as the Socialist Party candidate, with Huey Long as his VP. Together they run on a platform of radical wealth redistribution, protectionist tariffs and nationalisation of key industries at home, and a non-interventionist foreign policy.

Long survives the attempt on his life and is badly wounded, but ultimately makes a miraculous recovery. This serves to boost Long's popularity even more, with many seeing it as a miracle, and numerous conspiracy theories abound accusing the government/Democrats/Wall Street of trying to have him killed.

The 1936 elections are hotly contested, with the Democrats winning but with the Socialist Party coming in Second in the Electoral College having won in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Louisiana, as well as respectable showings across the Midwest, in California and major urban areas. The Republicans take a serious beating, only able to win Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire, whilst losing seats in the House and Senate. Many pundits predict that the Republicans are heading towards extinction, a prediction that would be confirmed after the 1938 Congressional elections, where their continued losses lead to their collapse, with the left-wing of the party defecting to the Socialists, and the right and centre flocking to the Democrats as the only party capable of keeping the Socialists out of office. A small number of party loyalists try to keep the Republican Party going, but they ultimately fall into obscurity outside of local elections in New England.

As time goes by the Socialist Party continues to grow. In local elections they build up a stable of Sewer Socialists and begin to make gains in state governments. In the South the Democrats are split between the New Deal left that are trying to steal the Socialists' thunder and right-wing Dixiecrats who feel that the mainstream Democrats have gone too far. This gives the Socialists a fighting chance to win pluralities and later majorities in the South, especially once the African-American population, historically sympathetic to the Republicans, begin to switch their support to the Socialists.

This growing American Socialist movement draws heavily on Christianity and Christian Socialism as a central ideological tenet, in part because of its heavily populist leaning, but also as a means of distinguishing themselves from Communism. Another key factor in their appeal to Christianity is that Long manages to convince Charles Coughlin to support the Socialists (bear in mind that he only really began praising Hitler and Mussolini after Long died so it’s not entirely outside the realm of possibility), presenting them as an alternative to greed-driven Capitalism and Godless Communism, and going a long way to establishing a Socialist Party support base amongst working-class Catholics, in particular Irish immigrants.

That gets you a popular Christian Socialist movement in America. I'm not sure how to get it fully Christian Communist, but it might be possible for elements in the party to become more radical in the 60s and 70s once the Civil Rights and anti-War movements pick up (the religious nature of the Abolitionists and Christian pacifism would be reoccurring motifs in those struggles, and I can see MLK being a card-carrying Socialist Party member). A much stronger mainstream socialist movement might also be in a better position to resist the Second Red Scare, leading to a more radicalised America overall.