AHC: Ceasar gets kicked out Gaul
- Thread starter Rammer
- Start date
I dont think it will be an empire, Caesar was in debt and he needed the looting of a campain to bring some wealth. So even if he failed but succede to survive and get back to Rome, he will have no more wealth or power.
For its survival, well, the roman republic will surely be in hot water. Caesar invaded Gaul first because an allied tribe of rome has been defeated by hostile germanic tribes. So the hostile force will now be next to the republic frontier. The roman will live with the constant threat of an invasion or raid in their homeland. Of course they could defeat them later with an army but the miracle of Caesar was doing it with only four legion (14 000 men) against (highly contested number but thats all what we have) 300 tribes and 3 millions ennemy in all his 3 campain in Gaul and failed invasion of Brittain.
So its mean an other general would maybe asked for more legion, thus deprieving the republic of more soldiers for other conquest.
P.S. Of course just driving the barbarian out of their frontier would not bring a war against 300 tribes but the treath will still be there, meaning a greater garnison on their northern front.
For its survival, well, the roman republic will surely be in hot water. Caesar invaded Gaul first because an allied tribe of rome has been defeated by hostile germanic tribes. So the hostile force will now be next to the republic frontier. The roman will live with the constant threat of an invasion or raid in their homeland. Of course they could defeat them later with an army but the miracle of Caesar was doing it with only four legion (14 000 men) against (highly contested number but thats all what we have) 300 tribes and 3 millions ennemy in all his 3 campain in Gaul and failed invasion of Brittain.
So its mean an other general would maybe asked for more legion, thus deprieving the republic of more soldiers for other conquest.
P.S. Of course just driving the barbarian out of their frontier would not bring a war against 300 tribes but the treath will still be there, meaning a greater garnison on their northern front.
tuareg109
Banned
I'm left wondering how this could even happen, how a man like Caesar could fail, but I'll try to answer your query. I'll assume that Caesar doesn't start a civil war, or else that his men are angry and disappointed enough not to follow him.
Caesar commits suicide; or reenters Rome to face immediate charges of incompetence, illegal warfare, and violation of a Treaty of Friendship; or goes into voluntary exile.
Instead of Caesar's victories bolstering him into the sunlight, his defeats mean that Pompey stays there as First Man in Rome. The conservative Senators (boni) continue to use him as a boogeyman, and example of what can happen when one man becomes too powerful. Pompey never marries Cornelia Metella; hell, the POD might even butterfly away Julia's death.
Being Caesar's son-in-law and erstwhile close friend, Pompey might well use his considerable influence to get Caesar acquitted of all charges; the alternative--divorcing Julia, whom he apparently loved dearly--is very unlikely.
So you have Caesar being acquitted through Pompey's influence, thus making a patrician Julius the client of a New Man's son. I think Caesar would prefer to go into exile with what little gold remains from the Gallic venture. From there--I really couldn't say what would happen.
The Republic is at an impasse. There's the boni--the conservative faction headed by Cato and Scipio Nasica--who can find new members easily, but don't have much influence with anybody not in the First Class of voters; and there's Pompey and his allies--plebeians and New Men, mostly. Since the only person at this time who was great enough to have a chance to eclipse Pompey was Caesar, the real storm would break when Pompey dies.
As for what happens then, I cannot say.
Caesar commits suicide; or reenters Rome to face immediate charges of incompetence, illegal warfare, and violation of a Treaty of Friendship; or goes into voluntary exile.
Instead of Caesar's victories bolstering him into the sunlight, his defeats mean that Pompey stays there as First Man in Rome. The conservative Senators (boni) continue to use him as a boogeyman, and example of what can happen when one man becomes too powerful. Pompey never marries Cornelia Metella; hell, the POD might even butterfly away Julia's death.
Being Caesar's son-in-law and erstwhile close friend, Pompey might well use his considerable influence to get Caesar acquitted of all charges; the alternative--divorcing Julia, whom he apparently loved dearly--is very unlikely.
So you have Caesar being acquitted through Pompey's influence, thus making a patrician Julius the client of a New Man's son. I think Caesar would prefer to go into exile with what little gold remains from the Gallic venture. From there--I really couldn't say what would happen.
The Republic is at an impasse. There's the boni--the conservative faction headed by Cato and Scipio Nasica--who can find new members easily, but don't have much influence with anybody not in the First Class of voters; and there's Pompey and his allies--plebeians and New Men, mostly. Since the only person at this time who was great enough to have a chance to eclipse Pompey was Caesar, the real storm would break when Pompey dies.
As for what happens then, I cannot say.
well ... for some part it would depend on when Ceasar is evicted from Gaul ... if its early enough he'd say that it was a unsuccessful sideshow (or training mission), that distracted him from his (supposedly) intended ideas of grabbing Dacia, linking up with Bithynia and Greece, putting the border to the slavic barbarians on the Danube
hmm ... thinking about it ... that could be a quite interesting POD, basing Ceasars conquests out of his proconsulship of Illyria instead of out of transalpine Gaul (and fairly simple ... simply stop Metellus Celer from dying in office and it being granted to Ceasar, or make it happen that much later that he've allready started in Illyria) ... going to fork this into a new thread
hmm ... thinking about it ... that could be a quite interesting POD, basing Ceasars conquests out of his proconsulship of Illyria instead of out of transalpine Gaul (and fairly simple ... simply stop Metellus Celer from dying in office and it being granted to Ceasar, or make it happen that much later that he've allready started in Illyria) ... going to fork this into a new thread
A power struggle between Caesar and Crassus in the form of a civil war you mean? Not really possible. The power struggle would be more one of influence. Crassus wanted to score a military victory so he could add great commander to his title of richest man in Rome. I think he would abandon Caesar at this point though-Caesar doesn't look like he is worth the investment anymore to Crassus.
But if you can hold off Crassus' arrival in Syria, he could snatch the transalpine Gaul governorship after Caesar returns, seeing it as an opportunity for him to win glory where someone else failed
But if you can hold off Crassus' arrival in Syria, he could snatch the transalpine Gaul governorship after Caesar returns, seeing it as an opportunity for him to win glory where someone else failed
tuareg109
Banned
hmm ... thinking about it ... that could be a quite interesting POD, basing Ceasars conquests out of his proconsulship of Illyria instead of out of transalpine Gaul (and fairly simple ... simply stop Metellus Celer from dying in office and it being granted to Ceasar, or make it happen that much later that he've allready started in Illyria) ... going to fork this into a new thread
Remember, he was already serving as Proconsul in Gaul. With a failure there, I don't think that the electors would allow him to govern Cisalpine Gaul and Illyria after that, in any of the Assemblies.