With a POD of 1900, make Austalia as large, powerful and prosperous as possible, without losing the national charachter of OTL Australia.
AHC: Australia-wank
- Thread starter thekingsguard
- Start date
celt
Banned
You need even more immigration from the UK,and Australia needs to open its door fully to eastern and southern Europeans like they did after WW2 but 40odd years earlier.
More immigration from Asian countries later in the century would help.
Maybe a British collapse in WW2 could force some sort of union with New Zealand along with aflood of British refugees would help.
Australia makes Papua New Guinea a state instead of giving it independence,and more assertive Australia can annex East Timour as well.
If all of these these thing happen you could have an Australia which includes most of the South Pacific islands with a population of 50million plus, economy and military at least equal to the UK or France.
More immigration is the main point though.
More immigration from Asian countries later in the century would help.
Maybe a British collapse in WW2 could force some sort of union with New Zealand along with aflood of British refugees would help.
Australia makes Papua New Guinea a state instead of giving it independence,and more assertive Australia can annex East Timour as well.
If all of these these thing happen you could have an Australia which includes most of the South Pacific islands with a population of 50million plus, economy and military at least equal to the UK or France.
More immigration is the main point though.
An earlier WWI would do the trick.
1900 - New Zealand carries referendum to become a State within the Commonwealth of Australia.
1901 - Negotiations for an Anglo-German Alliance succeed, instead of failing as in OTL, principally because Willie makes a great impression during his visit for his grandmother's funeral.
1902 - Anglo-Japanese treaty includes stronger naval cooperation and recognises Japanese 'interests' in Korea and northern islands. the Triple Alliance becomes the Quadruple Alliance with Britain a partner. The Great Game heats up in Asia. France holds urgent talks with both Britain and Russia.
1903 - Anglo-French talks with France trying to split the UK from the Quadruple Alliance. Instead France insists it will not allow Germany to remain a threat. Britain tries to calm situation by beginning negotiations for a proto-EU. All Great Powers agree to refer disputes to an independent Tribunal. Russia almost immediately renegs on its agreement.
1904 - Russo-Japanese war breaks out with Britain as Japanese ally. Russia declares war on UK. The later calls on its allies Germany and Austria to assist. WWI breaks out when France declares war on Germany and Austria but not on UK. Australia supports UK.
1905 - Russian naval defeat in Asia and Europe complete. Crete revolt supported by Quad Alliance. Turkey declares war. German army in east defeats superior Russian force. French army commits its forces to human wave attacks against strong German forces in the west. British forces land in Crete and defeat Turks. Balkans and all southern Europe erupt in bloody conflict.
1906- First Australian troops land in Greece to support British forces against Turks and Russians. Massive German counter attacks against French army breaks through and Paris is threatened. Austrian forces with Italian reinforcements hold and defeat Russian attacks. Turkish and Russian forces in Greece badly beaten and forced to surrender or retreat. Revolution breaks out in Russia.
1907 - Revolution in Turkey as both it and Russia are forced to sue for peace. Paris falls and French ask for armistice. War is over but Balkans and Southern Europe still at war with shifting alliances. British and allies stay out of conflict. TDR wins election for President of the US.
1908- Immigration from war zones begins. Britain agrees to transport refugees out. Australia agrees to take some as long as they conform to desirable types. Diggers like Greeks after campaigning with them and Italians too as they had expeditionary forces in Greece. Large scale immigration from both countries as well as Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia and Croatia. Soon joined by Russian and French citizens fleeing the deterioratin situation in their countries.
1909- Australian immigration now more ordered by government strategy. Australian population surges but SA, and NZ get fewer relatively than other states. Few casualties among Australian forces as fighting was almost over by the time the bulk arrived. France becoming more disordered as ships used to ship out people rather than ship in needed food.
1910- situation stabilised in Europe. Immigration still brisk however to Australia. Tensions with Japan rise as they insist on immigration rights. US will not lift its restrictions on Japanese immigration. US-British talks fail to break stalemate on the Japanese question.
1911- Australia signs agreement with Germany to establish joint Imperial-German military base in Port Moresby and to establish joint administration in German Papua. Britain refuses to supply ships but allows treaty to go ahead.
1912- Japanese insist on British assistance to stop treaty between the Empire and German from undermining its interests. Russia approaches Japan for alliance.
1913 - Russo-Japanese alliance signed. Britain repudiates its alliance with Japan and Singapore and Hong Kong become Anglo-German joint bases. France under new Republic joins in what is now termed the Western European Alliance.
1900 - New Zealand carries referendum to become a State within the Commonwealth of Australia.
1901 - Negotiations for an Anglo-German Alliance succeed, instead of failing as in OTL, principally because Willie makes a great impression during his visit for his grandmother's funeral.
1902 - Anglo-Japanese treaty includes stronger naval cooperation and recognises Japanese 'interests' in Korea and northern islands. the Triple Alliance becomes the Quadruple Alliance with Britain a partner. The Great Game heats up in Asia. France holds urgent talks with both Britain and Russia.
1903 - Anglo-French talks with France trying to split the UK from the Quadruple Alliance. Instead France insists it will not allow Germany to remain a threat. Britain tries to calm situation by beginning negotiations for a proto-EU. All Great Powers agree to refer disputes to an independent Tribunal. Russia almost immediately renegs on its agreement.
1904 - Russo-Japanese war breaks out with Britain as Japanese ally. Russia declares war on UK. The later calls on its allies Germany and Austria to assist. WWI breaks out when France declares war on Germany and Austria but not on UK. Australia supports UK.
1905 - Russian naval defeat in Asia and Europe complete. Crete revolt supported by Quad Alliance. Turkey declares war. German army in east defeats superior Russian force. French army commits its forces to human wave attacks against strong German forces in the west. British forces land in Crete and defeat Turks. Balkans and all southern Europe erupt in bloody conflict.
1906- First Australian troops land in Greece to support British forces against Turks and Russians. Massive German counter attacks against French army breaks through and Paris is threatened. Austrian forces with Italian reinforcements hold and defeat Russian attacks. Turkish and Russian forces in Greece badly beaten and forced to surrender or retreat. Revolution breaks out in Russia.
1907 - Revolution in Turkey as both it and Russia are forced to sue for peace. Paris falls and French ask for armistice. War is over but Balkans and Southern Europe still at war with shifting alliances. British and allies stay out of conflict. TDR wins election for President of the US.
1908- Immigration from war zones begins. Britain agrees to transport refugees out. Australia agrees to take some as long as they conform to desirable types. Diggers like Greeks after campaigning with them and Italians too as they had expeditionary forces in Greece. Large scale immigration from both countries as well as Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia and Croatia. Soon joined by Russian and French citizens fleeing the deterioratin situation in their countries.
1909- Australian immigration now more ordered by government strategy. Australian population surges but SA, and NZ get fewer relatively than other states. Few casualties among Australian forces as fighting was almost over by the time the bulk arrived. France becoming more disordered as ships used to ship out people rather than ship in needed food.
1910- situation stabilised in Europe. Immigration still brisk however to Australia. Tensions with Japan rise as they insist on immigration rights. US will not lift its restrictions on Japanese immigration. US-British talks fail to break stalemate on the Japanese question.
1911- Australia signs agreement with Germany to establish joint Imperial-German military base in Port Moresby and to establish joint administration in German Papua. Britain refuses to supply ships but allows treaty to go ahead.
1912- Japanese insist on British assistance to stop treaty between the Empire and German from undermining its interests. Russia approaches Japan for alliance.
1913 - Russo-Japanese alliance signed. Britain repudiates its alliance with Japan and Singapore and Hong Kong become Anglo-German joint bases. France under new Republic joins in what is now termed the Western European Alliance.
I'm not certain it can be done, or at least to the point where Australia is any better off than in OTL.
Australia's maxiumum population in the 20th centaury would be somewhere around 30 million, not only due to lack of livible land but due to lack of water. Even now we're facing water restrictions at about 25 million, and this is in the 21st centaury.
I suppose if you were to exploit some of the mineral desposists we have you could increase the GDP, but even with the most Uranium deposits in the world (31% of the world's total deposits according to wikipedia) I doubt you could bring Australia up to the level of the UK or France.
-MRegent
Australia's maxiumum population in the 20th centaury would be somewhere around 30 million, not only due to lack of livible land but due to lack of water. Even now we're facing water restrictions at about 25 million, and this is in the 21st centaury.
I suppose if you were to exploit some of the mineral desposists we have you could increase the GDP, but even with the most Uranium deposits in the world (31% of the world's total deposits according to wikipedia) I doubt you could bring Australia up to the level of the UK or France.
-MRegent
Super Parker Brothers
Banned
Unify Australia and New Zealand, give them the whites who leave India and the other colonies, have the claims for New Zealand, Fance, Australia, and the completly unclaimed chunk in Antartica be fused into one, get desalination plants around Darwin to start sending this inland, and short of annexing Samoa and the Solomon Islands, thats about it. Australians were simply afraid of people who werent white, even if their skin was more suited for the climate. I dont think Australians have more than a minor vestige of racism left though. Come to think of it, I have a way to maybe wank Australia. Keep Japan in the game. Make Australia be more built up. Though then they couldnt invest as much in industry for consumers.
What would make Russia do something so foolish? The parametres Anglo-Japanese alliance meant that Britain couldn't get invovled in the Russo-Japanese war because the alliance could only be initated if either side was at war with more than 1 great power. Tsar Nick' wasn't that mad. He expected he could beat 'backwards' Japan, but he knew he wouldn't be able to defeat Britain as well as Japan.
See above in my post. POD is a stronger, more comprehensive Anglo-Japanese treaty in 1902 with different clauses. A more isolated Russia after it rejects the Great Power resolution system of referral to a tribunal to resolve differences and as a result higher tension in the east and a greater attention to the Great Game by British government.
Russia would feel confident it could match Britain on land where they would likely to meet and that once the Japanese fleet was defeated it would be too late for Britain to intervene at sea and a peace could be negotiated. Russia would not think Germany and Austria and Italy would go to war to defend British interests with its Asian ally.
If you think that is too unbelievable read some of the lead up to WWI and the incomprehensible bungling by the aristocratic, mainly amateur diplomats that failed to prevent it.
What is your reason to have the colonial whites leave India etc? Good idea but why would they do it?
Why would the Antarctic claim make Australia more powerful? Its not like any resources could be efficiently exploited at that level of technology.
Were desalination plants around in the pre-WWI era? Even if they were was their efficiency enough to provide enough potable water?
Riain
Banned
The post WW2 planned immigration needs to occur much earlier, perhaps after the Japanese win in the Russo-Japanese war. So that the post WW2 boom occurs in the interwar period and by WW2 our population is over 10 million and we some a reasonable industry. I'd have a few detail changes, like having federal control of railways as part of Federation, and the railway being built to Darwin as part of the Depression relief projects.
I'd have armaments built in Australia as part of Depression relief, nothing too fancy; destroyers, some tanks, armoured cars and artillery and planes. I'd also have detail changes to the way WW2 was fought in the Mid East and South East Asia so that the counter offensives are directed more through Indonesia and Australian forces have an important part in them, up to 50%. I'd also like the Australian govt to build a national command structure and direct the war in our region to increase our interests.
Hows that for a start.
I'd have armaments built in Australia as part of Depression relief, nothing too fancy; destroyers, some tanks, armoured cars and artillery and planes. I'd also have detail changes to the way WW2 was fought in the Mid East and South East Asia so that the counter offensives are directed more through Indonesia and Australian forces have an important part in them, up to 50%. I'd also like the Australian govt to build a national command structure and direct the war in our region to increase our interests.
Hows that for a start.
No money in West New Guinea? Never heard of Free Port gold mine - one of the largest in the world?
No money in East Timor? Loads of oil actually...
The only way to make this work would be for the Australian Labor Party never to be formed.
You'd need to effectively allow open exploitation of Australian workers as labour laws are the main governor of economic development.
You'd need to ramp up immigration, much, much earlier. That would mean that the White Australia Policy would have to be heavily modified or even never implemented. Southern Europe would have to become a major source of labour. Aim for a population of about 15 million by 1939. That would double what was there in OTL and provide an adequate supply of manpower for most projects.
You'd need massive resource development - other than agriculture. Iron ore, coal, copper and above all, gold. Apart from Kalgoorlie you'd need to source as much again, perhaps from New Guinea - discovery of deposits there, much earlier? The gold would be needed to finance everything. Perhaps if the Broken Hill silver deposits were twice as large again as well?
You'd also need to have ship building on a large scale. Development of the shipyards in Woollongong, Newcastle, Whyalla. That would allow Australia to become at least a middling naval power by WWII. We could be building our own cruisers - which could in turn form the basis for a good class of light fleet carriers.
Aeroindustries would have be established earlier as well, perhaps by the end of WWI, rather than the start of WWII. Lawrence Wackett could have his head, with major financial backing.
Infrastructure would need to be unified. Make all the colonies/states adopt the one, universal gauge for the railways. More and better roads. This would improve inter-colonial and inter-state commerce considerably. Build a proper transcontinental railway earlier. From the railways would flow the need for more heavy industries which could be adapted later to build vehicles, artillery, etc. for the army.
However, all this would substantially change the "Australian character". More non-UK immigrants, earlier means a more cosmopolitan society. No ALP, effectively means no union representation in parliament. Exploitation of workers means that there is no "laid back" attitude. You simply cannot change a society in so many ways and not expect that to be reflected in its "character".
You'd need to effectively allow open exploitation of Australian workers as labour laws are the main governor of economic development.
You'd need to ramp up immigration, much, much earlier. That would mean that the White Australia Policy would have to be heavily modified or even never implemented. Southern Europe would have to become a major source of labour. Aim for a population of about 15 million by 1939. That would double what was there in OTL and provide an adequate supply of manpower for most projects.
You'd need massive resource development - other than agriculture. Iron ore, coal, copper and above all, gold. Apart from Kalgoorlie you'd need to source as much again, perhaps from New Guinea - discovery of deposits there, much earlier? The gold would be needed to finance everything. Perhaps if the Broken Hill silver deposits were twice as large again as well?
You'd also need to have ship building on a large scale. Development of the shipyards in Woollongong, Newcastle, Whyalla. That would allow Australia to become at least a middling naval power by WWII. We could be building our own cruisers - which could in turn form the basis for a good class of light fleet carriers.
Aeroindustries would have be established earlier as well, perhaps by the end of WWI, rather than the start of WWII. Lawrence Wackett could have his head, with major financial backing.
Infrastructure would need to be unified. Make all the colonies/states adopt the one, universal gauge for the railways. More and better roads. This would improve inter-colonial and inter-state commerce considerably. Build a proper transcontinental railway earlier. From the railways would flow the need for more heavy industries which could be adapted later to build vehicles, artillery, etc. for the army.
However, all this would substantially change the "Australian character". More non-UK immigrants, earlier means a more cosmopolitan society. No ALP, effectively means no union representation in parliament. Exploitation of workers means that there is no "laid back" attitude. You simply cannot change a society in so many ways and not expect that to be reflected in its "character".
You don't think the Portuguese who own it might have something to say about it? Considering they were the oldest allied nation to the UK, I rather think the UK might veto the idea, don't you?
One big thing: tHe biggest obsticle in Austalia is the Outback... is there a way all that desert and shrubland could be terraformed into something less... dead?
As for desalinization, would it be feasible long term and when is the earliest they could start doing that?
As for desalinization, would it be feasible long term and when is the earliest they could start doing that?
Nothing wrong with the outback. Its where all the minerals are.
If you're interested in terraforming then why not flood the outback? Have a look at the water course (dry) which runs from Port Augusta in South Australia to Lake Torrents and the to Lake Eyre which is IIR below sea level at its deepest. There is IIRC about 100 miles which would need to subside to let the waters from the Spencer Gulf to flow inland to Lake Torrens then to Lake Eyre. A nice inland sea would do a great deal towards improving rainfall on the western side of the Great Dividing Range and water flow in the Murray-Darling and Cooper basins.