AHC: a seafaring culture like the Vikings in Southern Chile

I have been watching the TV series Vikings, and could help to notice the similarities between Norwegian landscapes and those of Southern Chile and western Argentine Patagonia. Both have fiords, forests, lakes and the weather is rather cold.

Could a seafaring culture have develope there before the Europeans came. i know, it's a real challenge. No such boats existed in Pre-columbian America. The Yaghan had canoes by which they traveled across the islands and hunted sealions, but they aren't comparable to western ships. More than that, they had no agriculture nor domesticated animals.

But, if somehow, a crop suited to that climate had been domesticated or introduced, and if animal such as guanacos (closely related to llamas), Huemules (local deers) or rheas had been domesticated, could this have led to more population and, in tern, innovation in seafaring technology? Wood was already there, and sails might have been introduced from the Incas, who had them and reached as far as central Chile. Or maybe from Polynesians?

I know, it's hard without a souitable grain good enough to sustain at least a solid enough population, but...
 
Eh, OTL has potential had the Natives been left alone for long enough-eventually, the spread of new potato cultivars and llama breeds could have allowed a larger, more sedentary culture to develop in southern Chile, which could have developed both bouts and a hankering for raiding northern cultures.

Two big obstacles I can think of-lack of sail cloth (cotton probably isn't going to grow in southern Chile no matter how much you breed it) and coastline. The Vikings developed their maritime technology because they had to sail, as the terrain made travel over land nigh impossible and travel too close to shore too dangerous. I don't know if southern Chile has that.
 
The problem is that there's not really any place nearby that they would want to go to.
Yeah, you can raid Peru and the Falklands only so many times. Actually, Fire Island would make a good base for piracy, at least until a canal is built in Panama or wherever and the shipping lanes shift.
 
Hmm, seafaring Mapuche or similar indigenous peoples around that area, you have to admit, would be a pretty cool concept. You could probably adopt some sort of canoe model by expanding on it, so long as you can have it navigate Cape Horn/Strait of Magellan without problems. And it's not like it's improbable - there is evidence on the Falklands of that island chain being used as a summer home of sorts for mainland indigenous peoples. So it's not as far-fetched as it sounds.
 

Zirantun

Banned
I would say look into Polynesian-style seafaring and see what you come up with.


And if you give the natives a domesticable animal or crop, why would they only raid the west coast? In my timeline, How a Ptarmigan Changed History, agriculture will develop along the Paraná River. If you did something similar, then raiding up Argentina's eastern coast and Southern Brazil would probably be a lot more profitable.
 
for an Amerind nation that could be used, look no further than the Moche. though this is just an idea, but the Moche DID have a very sea-centric society, iirc
 

Zirantun

Banned
The difference is that the Western Pacific is filled with verdant islands. The Eastern Pacific is basically empty.

Ha. I know. I just got out of living there... praise the Lord!


Anyways, I was referring more to their canoe technology and their sails. I'm not sure what they made their sails out of, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't cotton...
 
Anyways, I was referring more to their canoe technology and their sails. I'm not sure what they made their sails out of, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't cotton...
I believe the Polynesians created cloth from bark. They'd pound the bark into fiber, and then weave the fibers.
 
Vikings built their ships to raid and to trade. In both cases taking advantage of a rich settled culture nearby. Where is the incentive for the chileans to do the same?

Also, the vikings could, and did, interact targets from britain to france to russia, getting as far as Byzantium in the east.

Even if *peru were rich, itd be like the norwegians attacking denmark. A single target down one coast.
 

katchen

Banned
Believe it or not, guanuco are semi-domestic in a way. I read in a recent biography of Magellan that the Native Americans of South Patagonia would round up the guanucos every year, shear them and then turn them loose. That was how they got their clothing, and guanuco wool is as good as alpaca wool. But there's no reason why alpaca could not be introduced to Patagonia. Potatoes and quinoa too, grown in nthe river valleys and around the Straits of Magellan. If the Quechuans had had more time, I believe that they would have expanded their culture and quite possibly their empire all the way to Navarino Island. Only the Pampas would have remained a challenge, and that, only the marshy sections.
 
I think than a solution was a salmon.

The area which a culture like the viking in America was the north west coast of North America. OTL this region was similar to the viking (the Haida was called the vikings of the NW coast). OTL they adopt some tecnology and crops from the european in the late 1700's / early 1800's : metal working, sail, gun (including some canons), potatoes (as far as the alaskan panhandle). If they have more times before the colonization they will can develop more complex society.

The southern regions of Chile are similar, they just lack the salmon. OTL the salmon breeding was an important activity in southern Chile.

WI a species of salmon move to the area in prehistory ? First a bear species (relative of the spectacled bear) can evolve in the area like the northern grizzly and survive the coming of the humans.

Second. After the humans developed society like those of NW american coast. There were more numerous and sedentary, and later they domestic potatoes who grow in the region.

Third they trade from the north and adquire : llama, alpagua, guinea pigs, quinoa, oca. Also copper metalurgy and sail (if they didn't invent the sail yet).

Then they can colonize the Malouines and the eastearn coast of Patagonia. They can raid the north to plunder. With a population of llama a part of them can move Inside Patagonia (and displace/assimilate/exterminate the hunter gatherer).

In the eastearn coast the colonisation stop when they reach the agricultural population in southern Brazil. They can colonize the Rio de la Plata and sail back the Uruguay and the Parana.

The Mapuche are streched between the southern viking and the andean civilization but can survive adopting the potatoes and the llama.

Like OTL the polynesian land in Southern America and transmit chicken but also tecnologies who improve the seafaring skill of the southern viking.

OTL the viking were also trader, I think than this southern vikings too. They can trade and transmit their navigation skill to the andeans. Then with better boat the andeans can improve their trips to Mesoamerica and transmit the metalurgy earlier than OTL (800 AD) and other stuff (guinea pig, llama, potatoes) and bring back writing, turkey, wheel, etc.

In mesoamerica seafaring develop and turkey, guinea pigs can pass on the Caribbean by Cuba and then to North America by Florida. No potatoes in this way, this vegetable in no very accurate in the caribean sea

The SW United State can pick guinea, pigs, llama, potatoes. After they can goes to the west coast and move to the north to Alaska, maybe with sailing ship. Perhaps they can go east and introduce llama and potatoes to eastern united states ?

I thnik than the native of the Caribbean are curshed by the Spanish like OTL, those of Mesoamerica too but their were numerous and better amred (with copper or bronze weapon), than OTL and can resist a little more.

In the Andes the raid from the South can push to better weapon : more copper or bronze weapon. Writting mean to better organised state. If the Inca empire still exist and if they not be in a civil war they can resit to the spanish.

For the southern viking the coming of the spanishs is 1519 when Magellan come in the strait. He can transmit some plague to the native (plague who go to the north, hitting the incan sooner). If Magellan expedition are not killed or captured they can goe north to the incans or like OTL. Later when the expedition took Europe the spanishs can send a second expedition to conquer the region.

A title of this TL may be A salmon goes South.
 
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