AH Challenge: Surviving Vandal presence in North Africa

Part V: Hoader King of The Vandals, Alans, Moors, and Visigoths (2, 5, 3)

Early Life
The story of the Vandal king Hoader is an interesting one to say the least. His life began in relative poverty as his grandfather had involved himself on the wrong side of the Arian rebellions. This had left his father and thus his family in rather dire straights and being a third son Hoader was regulated to the streets of Carthage becoming nothing more than a street urchin.

It would be during his time as a street urchin that Hoader would be discovered by a Moorish chieftain known only as Tabriz. Tabriz took pity upon Hoader and bought him from his family to serve him and his war band on their many journeys. With the Vandal kingdom being involved in the Iberian wars Tabriz and his war band soon set off for Iberia for fame and glory with Hoader tagging along with them.

It would be during the Iberian war that Hoader would come to gain some deal of fame. At a young age he assumed command of Tabriz’s war band and led it to a number of victories against the Visigoths towards the end of the war. The war ended with Hoader being in his mid twenties and one of Huneric II’s favorite generals.

Hoader’s rise to fame had been sudden and though he became quite rich he did his best to avoid the seductions of wealth. Much of his career was spent fighting campaigns against rebellious Berbers. However there came a time when Huneric grew old and sought to appoint Hoader as his chief minister. Hoader’s return to Carthage was marked by his second marriage to Galthinda a descendant of the Visigoth nobility.

Hoader’s regency was uneventful and only served to increase his wife’s hold upon him. It wouldn’t be long before Huneric II died and appointed Hoader to assume the throne, little did he know the disastrous consequences that would follow.

Reign
Hoader’s reign was thankfully quite uneventful for the Visigoth kingdom. To the north, the Franks were divided and constantly fighting amongst themselves. To the east, Italy was stable under the new Exarch Leo and the Byzantines were occupied with the Persians and the Arabs.

The reign of Hoader was marked by corruption and debauchery. Known for his wild parties Hoader nearly bankrupted his kingdom in an attempt to support his wife’s lavish lifestyle. In order to raise funds for his parties and circuses Hoader sold the government offices off like vegetables in a vegetable market. The Vandal economy faltered as Hoader became completely disinterested in state affairs and focused on his personal life.

Around 621 Hoader became quite ill and lingered near death for nearly 2 years. It would be during those years that his wife Galthinda became quite worried. She and Hoader had yet to produce an heir to live beyond infancy. So in desperation she looked around for a suitable successor to take the throne. She found that successor in Marcus Abriz Hasdengi a notable merchant and Vandal admiral who had gained much fame plying the waters of the Mediterranean.

Appointing him along with herself regent for her dying husband Galthinda hoped to take a more active role in the affairs of the state. Unfortunately her decisions nearly bankrupted the kingdom. After she cancelled a quarter of the taxes in the empire Marcus approached her and rebuked her. As a result he was stripped of his regency and thrown in the dungeon where he would languish for the remainder of Hoader’s reign.

Fortunately for Galthinda, Hoader soon recovered from his illness and resumed governing the country and ruled with little change until his death in 637 AD. He governed more or less justly but began to show a that he had lost a bit of his sanity during his bout of sickness. His only really important act was to free Marcus from prison and return his title of Regent setting him up to assume the throne after he died.
 
Part 5.0: The reign of Emperor Justinian II (6, 4, 4)

Early Life
Many historians would say that naming your child after one of the Greatest emperors in Roman history would be a mistake. It sets unduly high expectations upon them and forces them to try and constantly overachieve in an attempt to surpass their predecessor. Yet John the second in the Thracian dynasty would take no heed of their warnings as he named his first son and heir Justinian II.

Much of Justinian’s early life was spent in the royal palace in Constantinople under the tutelage of royal tutors appointed by his father. From an early age Justinian showed that while he lacked most of the military skill of his father and grandfather he was an able administrator. This skill would come in handy later on in life as he assumed the mantle of emperor from his father.

Justinian’s coronation would mark the high point of the Thracian dynasty. Though he had the legacy of his grandfather and father to live up to Justinian II assumed the responsibility with relish and sought to not only meet the expectations set upon him but surpass them.

Reign
The first part of Justinian II’s reign was marked by a period of peaceful consolidation. Good relations were maintained with King Chosroes II of Persia and Constantinople soon became a hub for caravans coming in from the east through the Persian Empire. The economy thrived as Justinian II cultivated new allies in the Slavs and Avars which chose to migrate down into Byzantine lands. Many of them were granted lands in Asia Minor in exchange for hereditary military service. Unbeknownst to him the first 25 years of his reign would see the Byzantine Empire strengthened and built up enough to survive the Arabic onslaught that would consume the rest of his reign.

In 633 the defining moment of Justinian’s career occurred as the Muslim forces of Abu Bakr launched a massive expedition northward into Byzantine territory. Fanatical Muslim forces quickly destroyed the Byzantine army in Mesopotamia through a series of decisive defeats sending them reeling back to Syria. Unfortunately for Abu Bakr Justinian had an edge up on the Arabs, his name was Narses and though he shared the name of his grandfather’s contemporary he was of no relation. Putting Narses at the head of an army of nearly 70,000 Greeks, Slavs, Italians, and Avars Justinian commissioned the first of the great Arab campaigns.

The Arab war as it would later be called would be waged for nearly 10 years before a truce could be arranged between the Byzantine empire and the forces of the Caliphate. Having decisively defeated Byzantium’s Mesopotamian army under Theodore the Eunuch the morale of the Arab forces couldn’t be higher. Unfortunately they soon found themselves bogged down besieging the Roman border towns of Syria and Damascus itself.

A key factor in the resistance of Syria to the Muslim invaders was the lack of persecution of the Monophysites especially the Ghassanids who rose in droves to protect the empire that had fostered their religion. Patriarch Peter of Antioch was crucial in rallying his Monophysite followers in religious fervor providing the walls of the holy land with hordes of willing militia.

By the time Narses and his army arrived on the scene Syria was almost completely in Muslim hands. Only the major city of Damascus remained under Byzantine control. Abu Bakr had moved his army, fresh from a half a dozen other victories throughout Syria around Damascus to strengthen the siege. It would be here in 634 that the decisive battle of the Arab war would be fought. The battle of Damascus would see the fate of the Holy land decided. If the Arabs could defeat Narses the entire Holy land would be open to them. Yet that was not to be so as Narses used his tactical genius to outwit Abu Bakr and deliver a defeat that broke the siege of Damascus and forced Abu Bakr to retreat into Muslim held Syria.

Over the next 4 years the Muslims and the Byzantines would clash in a number of inconclusive engagements with the Byzantine’s receiving the worst of most of the casualties. By 638 both Narses and the new Caliph Umar found themselves and their respective armies exhausted. Into this situation came Justinian who decided to buy off the Muslims. Granting them Western Mesopotamia, Justinian placated Umar with a generous annual subsidy which ironically would be used to fund the Arab invasion of Persia.

Unfortunately Justinian would not make it back to Constantinople for en route he contracted the plague and like his predecessor died before his time. One can only imagine what good he could have done had Justinian II lived longer. Yet in 639 he died and his body was taken into Constantinople and buried alongside that of his father and grandfather in the Church of the Holy Apostles. His son Belisarius II would succeed him as emperor of the Roman Empire ensuring the continuation of the Thracian dynasty.
 
Part 5.5: Arab and Sassinid Interactions.

Sassanid Civil War
King Chosroes II ruled benevolently until sometime in the 620’s. It would be during this time that the Persian civil war would occur weakening it enough to serve as a tempting target for the Arab invaders nearly 20 years later. Chrosroes had had over 18 sons and having died rather suddenly he appointed no heir. It would be during this power vacuum that Chosroes III 6th son of Chosroes II would coerce several of his brothers into backing his claim to the throne over his brother Kavadh II. This incident would touch off the Persian Civil War which would drag on well into the 640’s and soon become enmeshed with the Arab invasions.

The Arab invasion of Persia
Having won Western Mesopotamia from the Byzantines only years before Umar was eager to continue to expand the frontiers of Islam. Moving east he promptly invaded Persia and was greeted by a stiff strong response. The Persians had grown strong through their ties with Byzantium and had consolidated after losing much of their western territories to the Byzantines in the Roman-Persian wars nearly 3 decades prior. The Arabs meanwhile had been bolstered by the large numbers of Arab tribesmen who had fled the Levant and joined up with the Islamic forces during the Arab wars.

So Caliph Umar decided to press his advantage and invade Persia whom he regarded as weak and divided having suffered through nearly 2 decades of civil strife. Unfortunately he underestimated the current ruler of the Sassanid Dynasty Kavadh II. Kavadh had stopped at nothing to attain the crown of Persia and would not stand to have it stripped from him by some wild Arab tribesmen. He would promptly call up Persia’s nobles to form an army to stop Umar and his rampaging Mohammedans.

The War would drag on for quite some time and eventually see Chosroes III and his compatriots convert to Islam in an attempt to co-opt the Arab invaders into their dynastic dispute. Yet it would be all for naught as the Persians would be more than capable of holding their own against the Arabs. Chrosroes III would be unsuccessful in usurping his brother and eventually meat his death at the hands of Royalist Persian forces. Eventually though, the Arabs would be able to win some land taking most of Eastern Mesopotamia from the Persians before concluding peace.

The Persian wars would not only see the formation of the Arab province of Iraq but the survival of Zostarianism. Had the Persian’s lost it is conceivable that this religion would be lost to the seas of time as the Arabs overran the Persian Empire. But that was not to be as the Sassanid Empire would continue to thrive for some time. Islam would meanwhile never quite gain the ascendancy it so desired and would remain primarily a local religion.

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Allright there's the next section of my TL. What do you guy's think? Any constructive criticism and thoughts about the future of the TL are welcome. Also any insights into Persian history would be much appreciated as it is far from my forte. How was section 5.5? Any thoughts on the Arab invasions?

Also any thoughts on what should happen next? I'm at a loss in regards to the future of both Christianity, Islam, and Zosterianism.
 
Like it so far :)
What are the cultural developments like?
And does the Vandal language evolve or be replaced?

Whether the Vandal kingdom(s) can survive Arab/Islamic incursions would also impact on this.
 
Well, in TTL, I would expect both Monophysite and Nestorian Christianity to survive and prosper more than in OTL. Islam played a decisive role in superceding them in their areas of dominance (Egypt/Levant and Central Asia respectively).

In OTL, Ethiopia is Monophysite. The Nubian kingdoms (present-day northern Sudan) were Monophysite as well, but were destroyed by Islamic forces operating out of Egypt. I would expect Monophysite Christianity to continue traveling down the Nile and become significant in East Africa. Perhaps hand-in-hand with a larger Ethiopian state, although the Ethiopians will have to deal with the Caliphate (which might expand southward by sea).

At least one Central Asian "horse tribe" (the Kereits) was entirely Christian in OTL. Without competition from Islam, I would expect many more of the steppe peoples to become Nestorian Christians. Nestorian Christianity could spread with the conquests of Nestorian steppe tribes. Unless Zoroastrianism seriously reforms itself (see below), we might even see a Nestorian Persia if/when it's conquered by Nestorian Turks or Mongols.

Zoroastrianism will probably have to undergo some kind of reformation--according to some of what I've read, the reason Islam triumphed in Persia so quickly is because the people were thoroughly sick of the corrupt, useless religious aristocracy.

In OTL there was a group called the Mazdakites. In TTL, they might play a major role.
 
The Professor said:
Like it so far :)
What are the cultural developments like?
And does the Vandal language evolve or be replaced?

Whether the Vandal kingdom(s) can survive Arab/Islamic incursions would also impact on this.

Well, the armies of Islam never entered Egypt and they don't have any ports on the Mediterranean, so I would expect the Vandal kingdom is relatively safe from Arab/Islamic trouble.

Leo knows a good bit about the linguistic situation in North Africa. IIRC he said that there was a Latino-Punic "Romance language" aborning in the area that never got fully established thanks to Islam.

Perhaps in TTL we get two Romance languages in North Africa--the Latino-Punic one and one more influenced by Vandal (possibly something resembling French or Spanish minus its Arabic influence).
 
The idea of "randomizing" the kings is good, although I think that a chance of 50% for no heir is too high.

About Belisarius' army: I read in "Ein Kampf um Rom" by historian Felix Dahn that Belisarius had 30,000 men for the Vandals, 60,000 against the Ostrogoths, and Narses had 100,000 men for them.
 
Part VI: Marcus Abriz Hasdengi King of the Vandals, Alans, Visigoths, and Moors. (1,4,3)

Early Life
Marcus Abriz Hasdengi’s early life was spent for the most part in his family’s estate on the island of Sicily. The Hasdengi’s had always been a fairly powerful family in the Vandal society even before their arrival in Africa. Upon arriving in Africa they were one of the first Vandal noble families to convert to Catholicism around the time of Hilderic. This conversion made them the perfect candidates to rule over the predominantly Catholic islands of Sardinia, Corsica, and Sicily. Fortunately for Hilderic the Hasdengi family had 3 sons and so an island was given to each. Coming from a relatively minor branch of the Hasdengi family in Sicily Marcus was the son of a Vandal noblewoman and a Moorish noble. His ties to both the Vandal and the Moorish community led him to retain both the names of his parents.

Marcus quickly chartered a vessel and resolved to make his living as a merchant plying the waters of the Mediterranean. He quickly grew in fame and renown and eventually formed a trading company serving as an admiral for a whole fleet of merchant vessels. Having reached this position Marcus found himself unduly suited to the minor crisis the Vandals found themselves in the beginning of the 6th century.

Pirates operating from the area around OTL Tobruk had been plaguing Vandal and Byzantine shipping for months. In 619 their piracy reached it’s zenith when they captured Malta and began to increase their raids tenfold upon Vandal shipping and settlements. A number of Marcus’ vessels were captured or sunk leaving him with somewhat of a vendetta against the pirates. Commissioned by Hoader Marcus merged the dilapidated Vandal fleet with his personal fleet and sailed against Malta.

The Battle for Malta was more of a massacre than a real battle. The pirates had been running short on supplies and had sent out all their raiders in an attempt to bring food and other supplies to the beleaguered island. As a result Marcus faced no resistance upon his arrival. The island was quickly put under siege and the poorly supplied defenders were forced to succumb within weeks only to be slaughtered to a man.

In the weeks to come Marcus would build up Malta as a fortress in the region while the pirate raiders slowly trickled in. One by one Marcus appropriated their ships to add to his own personal fleet and gang pressed their crews to construct defensive works around the island. These victories would see him rise to greatness under Hoader leading to his appointment to the position of Regent when Hoader fell ill.

Regency
As Hoader lay between life and death the effective rule of the Vandal kingdom was transferred to it’s two regents Galthinda and Marcus. The twin regency was doomed from the start as Marcus proved to be quite submissive to Galthinda allowing her to go through with many of her excesses. Unfortunately when the livelihood of his family and fellow merchants was put on the line Marcus dug in his heels. His rebuking of Galthinda’s decision to cancel a quarter of the kingdom’s taxes resulted in nearly 2 years in the royal dungeons. Though he would later be freed by a recovered Hoader Marcus would never be the same.

Reign
When Hoader died in 637 Marcus was next in line for the kingship. Upon arranging the death of Galthinda Marcus ascended the throne as Marcus I and began his lackluster reign. Upon coming to the throne Marcus had “one foot in the grave” so to speak. Yet he would rule for 15 years.

During those 15 years he would do little to reverse the policies of Hoader and would see the Vandal armed forces continue to deteriorate. The only thing he really did was raise taxes which led the people to the verge of revolt. It did however help to refill the Vandal coffers which had been drained by the excesses of Hoader and Galthinda.

Marcus would never marry. Many Historians would attribute this to his imprisonment and subsequent assassination of Galthinda. However it is important to note that Marcus did have several affairs before he assumed the crown. Perhaps his heart was broken never to be mended by one of his mistresses? We shall never know. At any rate, he never produced an heir and so at the end of his life he nominated his nephew Paul, a Latinized Vandal living in Corsica with whom he’d had a rather good relationship.

So in 652 Marcus Abriz Hasdengi finally kicked the bucket. His passing was not mourned and the people of Carthage looked to their new king Paul to improve their pitiful state.
 
Part 6.0: Belisarius II Emperor of Byzantium (3,6,1)

Early Life
Being named after one of the greatest Emperors of the Byzantine Empire may not have affected his father but the pressure on Belisarius II certainly showed. After being crowned Augustus in late 639 Belisarius II would go on to have a much longer reign than his father living well into his 70’s and reigning 31 years.

Reign
After being crowned Belisarius II found his empire in excellent shape after 4 emperors who each could arguably claim the title of “The Great”. The economy was booming, the frontier defenses put in place by his great-grandfather had held, and the Arabs had been decisively defeated and placated with a small annual subsidy. Relations with Persia to the East, the Avars to the north, and the Vandals to the west were excellent. The empire was experiencing a golden age of unparalleled wealth.

Yet there were still things that needed to be done. Seeing the danger of the Arabs Belisarius II was quick to reinforce the fortifications set in place by his namesake. He would also go as far as offering new immigrants to the empires notably Slavs, Lombards, and Avars lands in Syria in exchange for hereditary military service. Yet these measures soon proved unnecessary as the Caliphate dissolved into civil war.

With the empire’s borders in a relatively peaceful state Belisarius II looked to reconcile some of the massive religious dissent within his empire. To the west he had the Pope clamoring for him to bring the dissenting eastern provinces back to the proper theological doctrine. Meanwhile the Patriarchs of Alexandria and Constantinople were both pulling in opposite directions, directions other than Rome’s.
Said religious differences could prove to tear the empire apart. So in 642 AD Belisarius II held the 5th Ecumenical Council or the second council of Constantinople to determine proper Christian doctrine. Said council would hopefully serve to check the rising tide of the Nestorians, the Monophysites and the resurgent Arians. The results of the council can be debated. If anything it deepened the rift between all sides involved. In the end Belisarius II was wary to begin open persecution of the Nestorians and Monophysites due to the role they had just played in defeating the Arab invasions.(**** I REALLY NEED HELP IN FLESHING OUT THIS PART!****)

Having dealt or at least tried to deal with the religious problems in his empire Belisarius II lived out the rest of his reign in relative peace traveling the Empire and improving the infrastructure and fortifications in the east. Belisarius II would also commission vast public works and several new cathedrals in the East. The works of Belisarius II would prove to tax the empire’s financial situation desperately. Unable to win renown on the battlefield Belisarius II tried to win it in other ways. As a result he left the empire considerably poorer financially than he had found it after 3 consecutive fiscally conservative emperors. This fact would bar him from achieving the same level of greatness as his predecessors. Yet though he would leave his empire poorer financially he would leave it a wealth of public works and churches and a great deal more beautiful.

Belisarius II would never be able to produce a heir in all the years of his reign despite his best efforts. After his wife passed her childbearing years Belisarius looked to appoint a successor to ensure a continued period of peace and stability within the empire. He would find a suitable successor in his chief Logotholete Tiberius. Nominating him as regent shortly before his death Belisarius followed his wife to the grave in 670. His body was put in an ivory casket and buried in the Church of the Holy Apostles along with all the other members of the Thracian Dynasty.

Legacy
The Thracian Dynasty ushered the Byzantine Empire into it’s first Golden Age. The financially conscious reigns of Belisarius, John, and Justinian II left the Empire rich enough to not only withstand numerous invasions and religious strife but the excesses of Belisarius II. Even at the end of his reign the Empire was stronger than ever before. Without their influence it is highly likely that the empire would have descended into a period of chaos after Justinian’s death and would have been unable to resist the Persians, and later the Arabs. Truth be told if any one man can be credited for the first Byzantine Golden age it is Belisarius I.
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Allright guy's you read the TL. I really need help fleshing out the religious situation that has grown up during the Thracian dynasty. How would delaying the 5th Ecumenical council affect things? How effective would it be? What course will Christianity take in the coming years?
 
The Monophysite crisis came after the Nestorian schism (Monophysitism was a reaction to the perceived division of Christ). I don't think at this point there would be many Nestorians left in the Empire.

Persia, on the other hand, is a different story...

You did describe a good deal of the Monophysites' defense of the Empire against the Arabs--Patriarch Peter and all that. Perhaps the Emperor's refusal to persecute the Monophysites (due to their help against the Arabs) causes a major split between East and West?

In TTL, the Orthodox Church could be very tolerant of dissenting opinions while the Western Church goes into Inquisition territory.
 
Part 6.5: The Rest of the World

The Arabian Civil War
Upon the death of the 3rd and final “Rightly minded Caliph” Umar, his successor Uthman assumed the position of Caliph. Unfortunately Uthman proved to be very corrupt falling prey to the disastrous temptations of nepotism. It would be his corruption that would lead to his assassination and the Islamic Civil War.

After his assassination, various groups within the Arab nation rose up in rebellion. These rebels then asked Abu ibn Abu Talib to assume the position of Caliph. Talib accepted their nomination and moved quickly to establish himself. Unfortunately he would meet substantial opposition from Uthman’s kinsmen and even Aisha wife of Mohammed.

Battle lines were quickly drawn as most of Talib’s support lay in Arabia proper while the supporters of the now dead Uthman had the majority of their strength in the newly conquered province of Iraq. Rallying behind Aisha the wife of Mohammed, the Uthmanites managed to further secure their position in Iraq later defeating the forces of Talib at the Battle of Basra and several other occasions.

The two sides would fight each other to a standstill for over 20 years. Though the Arabians under Talib initially had the advantage, eventually the Uthmanites managed to secure large amounts of aid from both the Byzantines and Persians. This aid would be key in not only prolonging the civil war but preserving the Iraqi Caliphate. Upon the assassination of Abu Talib his son Hassan Talib, now the Caliph of Arabia opened negotiations with the Iraqi Caliphate now under Mu’ariyah a relative of Uthman.

These negotiations would result in the partitioning of the Islamic nation and the formation of the Two Caliphates. In the end the Islamic civil war proved to be the death knell for Islam. Had the Islamic nation remained intact it is conceivable to see it expand far further. However due to the Islamic civil war Islam was reduced to a regional religion, unable to spread further than the extent of the limited Islamic conquests.

Persia and the Mazdakite Reformation
Upon the end of the Arab-Persian wars Kavadh II the king of Persia had finally consolidated his kingdom. With no other claimants to the throne his son Kavadh III
succeeded his father as the King of Persia. Unfortunately, the nation he inherited was one that was rotting from the inside out. The people of Persia had long chafed under the repressive Zoroastrian clergy and their corruption tainted the land.

It would be these repressive conditions which would result in two things. Nestorian Christians, fleeing the repressive conditions of the Roman Empire and found asylum in Persia. This contributed to the massive growth of Nestorian Christianity in not only Persia but the rest of the Middle East. This growth would be a key factor in forcing Kavadh III and several leading Zoroastrian clergymen in re-examining the teachings of Mazdak.

It would be these teachings and the great Zoroastrian council that would mark a change in Persia. Mazdak’s teachings were mellowed out somewhat to allow for continued stability. However the reforms were widespread and far reaching. The Zoroastrian religion rebounded curtailing somewhat the growth of Nestorian Christianity. However many Zoroastrian clergy were unhappy with these new restrictions and led several small revolts destabilizing the Persian empire for some time.

However under the leadership of Kavadh III the Persian Empire emerged much stronger. Once again the economy began to improve as serfs were released from their Clerical overlords. Kavadh III’s reign would be marked by consolidation and reform and would be crucial in sustaining the Sassanid dynasty.

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Allright, here's my thoughts on the future of Christianity. One of the major reasons for the great East-West Schism was the fact that Constantinople remained Roman and Rome and by extension the entire Italian peninsula fell more or less under Barbarian rule.

However in this timeline not only do we have Italy not only remaining but thriving under Byzantine control, and we have more religious tolerance. Now the patriarch of Constantinople was never really in favor of the whole tolerance deal. So Instead of the whole East-West Schism that we saw in OTL Constantinople will slowly begin to take a backseat to Rome (or perhaps the other way around...) and Alexandria will arise as the religious rival.

This rivalry will eventually result in the schism of the church on north/south lines as Egypt allies with the Nubians and Ethiopians to the south, the Persians and the Iraqi Caliphate to fight a war of independence.

Christianity will be split between the Alexandrian and the Catholic Church. Italy will begin to Hellenize (slowly) as it becomes more and more integrated with the Byzantine Empire. I think Rome will gradually lose it's importance as the Pope eventually gets sidelined in favor of the Patriarch of Constantinople. Now I don't think he'll like that too much maybe he'll flee to France or even Carthage and cause an east-west schism.

Anyhow those are just some ramblings on how I see Christianity turning out in the next 1000 years of this TL.

What do you guys think?
 
Will the north-south split be Chalcedonian-Monophysite? Egypt, Nubia, and Ethiopia are/were Coptic in OTL, and without the Monophysite persecutions, Monophysitism will be big in the Levant too.

Where are the Lombards in TTL? Since they lived on the Italian borderlands, surely they'll have an effect on the cultural growth of Italy.

How Hellenized will Italy get? The South was until (relatively) recently 'Graecia Magna'; however, central and northern Italy will be another matter.
 
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