Ah Challenge: Shortest Possible Age of European Dominance

tormsen

European and Western culture, due to a variety of factors the relative importance of which are the subject of debate but I personally believe to be chiefly geographic, certainly dominated the world in a way that had never been seen before. From modest beginnings, European culture now dominates 4 continents and has made significant inroads into the other 2. It was only until the 20th century that the torch was passed to North American and Eurasian outlier civilizations, and both we more-or-less highly derivative of Europe. And it's only in the 21st century that the bases of power are beginning to move gradually back to Asia, although that end result as yet is by no means a definate result.

So, the challenge is, with a PoD after 1500 (to make it difficult), keep the period of European dominance of the world as short as plausibly possible.
 

Alexandru H.

Three things: Powerful Ming China, Mughal India and Ottoman Empire.

a) A Ming that emphasises its influence onto Korea and South-East Asia
b) A Mughal industrial power-house that refuses Aurangzeb's intolerance
c) Ottomans that impose their domination and anti-Catholic stance in the Indian Ocean.

The only problem you have is America. And with a post-1500 POD, it's quite impossible to force the Europeans not to conquer it.
 

rewster

Alexandru H. said:
Three things: Powerful Ming China, Mughal India and Ottoman Empire.

a) A Ming that emphasises its influence onto Korea and South-East Asia
b) A Mughal industrial power-house that refuses Aurangzeb's intolerance
c) Ottomans that impose their domination and anti-Catholic stance in the Indian Ocean.

The only problem you have is America. And with a post-1500 POD, it's quite impossible to force the Europeans not to conquer it.
Click to expand...

America has a West Coast... perhaps the Ming or Mughal empires can colonize it as well.
 

bastian

Asia was, is and will be the key. The colonies of America or Africa wouldn´t be so important with otomans, persians, chinese, indians or japanese at their level
 

Rick Robinson

A smashing Ottoman victory at Lepanto in 1571. Ali Pasha dies bravely, holding out just long enough for Ulj Ali's flanking maneuver to come off, rolling up the Christian center. Don John of Austria also dies bravely after his short lived triumph. The Marquis of Santa Cruz makes a fighting retreat with the Christian reserve, but Ulj Ali returns to Constantinople in triumph, having captured or destroyed some 150 Christian galleys.

Retaining the initiative in the Med, the Ottomans keep up the pressure on Italy. Venice is reduced to a status not unlike Ragusa (though its trade thrives). Philip II has to abandon the Netherlands to concentrate his forces, but fails to manage a peace settlement, and swarms of Dutch Protestant privateers, along with English and French, step up raiding Spanish colonies in the New World. Ulj Ali identifies the key role of silver to the Spanish war effort, and persuades the Porte to build a squadron of English style race built galleons so the Barbary corsairs can join the party. In 1583 he defeats Santa Cruz in the Azores and captures a treasure flota, and in 1588 an Ottoman-Barbary expedition takes San Juan in Puerto Rico.

All of this is not going to turn the Atlantic into an Ottoman lake. The Spanish holdings in the New World may be too entrenched for them to conquer, but if they can cut off the flow of silver Spain is crippled and the Ottomans have the initiative. Europe in 1600 still has economic and maritime resources the Ottomans can't match at the time, but the Ottomans have a lot of new options, and the come into the 17th century on the ascendant, while Europeans are on the defensive on all fronts.


But does this qualify as a short age of European dominance, or as none at all? We think of 'European dominance' as beginning with Columbus and da Gama, but that is a back projection from much later developments.
 

Ridwan Asher

Rick Robinson said:
A smashing Ottoman victory at Lepanto in 1571. Ali Pasha dies bravely, holding out just long enough for Ulj Ali's flanking maneuver to come off, rolling up the Christian center. Don John of Austria also dies bravely after his short lived triumph. The Marquis of Santa Cruz makes a fighting retreat with the Christian reserve, but Ulj Ali returns to Constantinople in triumph, having captured or destroyed some 150 Christian galleys.

Retaining the initiative in the Med, the Ottomans keep up the pressure on Italy. Venice is reduced to a status not unlike Ragusa (though its trade thrives). Philip II has to abandon the Netherlands to concentrate his forces, but fails to manage a peace settlement, and swarms of Dutch Protestant privateers, along with English and French, step up raiding Spanish colonies in the New World. Ulj Ali identifies the key role of silver to the Spanish war effort, and persuades the Porte to build a squadron of English style race built galleons so the Barbary corsairs can join the party. In 1583 he defeats Santa Cruz in the Azores and captures a treasure flota, and in 1588 an Ottoman-Barbary expedition takes San Juan in Puerto Rico.

All of this is not going to turn the Atlantic into an Ottoman lake. The Spanish holdings in the New World may be too entrenched for them to conquer, but if they can cut off the flow of silver Spain is crippled and the Ottomans have the initiative. Europe in 1600 still has economic and maritime resources the Ottomans can't match at the time, but the Ottomans have a lot of new options, and the come into the 17th century on the ascendant, while Europeans are on the defensive on all fronts.


But does this qualify as a short age of European dominance, or as none at all? We think of 'European dominance' as beginning with Columbus and da Gama, but that is a back projection from much later developments.
Click to expand...

Besides the "western option" above, there is also a seemingly easier eastern one.
 

Riain

Banned
A post 1500 PoD makes it hard by removing the option of keeping the Ming treasure fleet doing trips to the Indian Ocean. In that case I'd go for the Aztecs confronting Cortez before he got to Tenotichlan and giving battle in full strength after Cortez' first battle/massacre on his journey inland. This should nip the Conquistador phase in the bud, and make the Europeans work for their American possesions instead of taking them by coup de main. American gold and silver was the main comodity that Europeans needed to trade with Asia in the early centuries. So without this huge influx of these metals trade with Asia would also be retarded reducing European dominance there also.
 
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