AH Challenge - Printing press technology lost to world after 1550

[raharris1973]

With sufficient global natural disaster this could probably happen.

However, to make the goal trickier, for this challenge humanity must continue to exist and the overall tech level cannot go below that of about 500 BC.

Printing press technology can (but does not have to) come back by 21st as long as it was lost for over 2 centuries.

 

[Thesaurus Rex]

The whole world? Including Asia?

Or is that sufficiently isolated to be considered another planet?

 

[Hinmatoowyalahtqit]

Or is that sufficiently isolated to be considered another planet?

The fuck?

 

[Avrorrange]

The fuck?

Printing press has been available in China for over a millenium by 1550.It's not something that's new like in Europe.

 

[Hinmatoowyalahtqit]

Printing press has been available in China for over a millenium by 1550.It's not something that's new like in Europe.

Exactly, and East Asia was not, by any possible definition of the word, "sufficiently isolated to be considered another planet." That's my point.

 

[Avrorrange]

Exactly, and East Asia was not, by any possible definition of the word, "sufficiently isolated to be considered another planet." That's my point.

I think the other dude meant it as a sarcasm,thinking OP is Eurocentric,because clearly it ain't possible for the printing press to be lost to the world after 1550 given it's ancient history in China,except perhaps in the case of nuclear fallout and the complete breakdown of human society,and even then,I don't think it would be forgotten.

 

[Falecius]

I think printing technologies existed in India, Japan, at least part of SE Asia and possibly Tibet at the time, and the principle was at least somewhat known and used within the Islamic world as well (although AFAIR almost exclusively by non-Muslims at that point).

 

[raharris1973]

But the 1400s Gutenburg press could do things on a scale and cost prior Asian methods could not, yes?

 

[Hinmatoowyalahtqit]

But the 1400s Gutenburg press could do things on a scale and cost prior Asian methods could not, yes?

Wasn't Gutenberg just more convenient because he was working with an alphabet? Until the Industrial revolution Europe and East Asia printed similar quantities of books so clearly that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Thesaurus Rex]

The fuck?

Printing press has been available in China for over a millenium by 1550.It's not something that's new like in Europe.

I think the other dude meant it as a sarcasm,thinking OP is Eurocentric,because clearly it ain't possible for the printing press to be lost to the world after 1550 given it's ancient history in China,except perhaps in the case of nuclear fallout and the complete breakdown of human society,and even then,I don't think it would be forgotten.

What DF said. You'd have to knock out its use in both Europe and East Asia to lose it to the entire world. On a human scale, this would require it to be considered impractical (how?), or culturally unwanted or unacceptable.

I'm not sure how the latter would be possible in China, though. The Ming were pretty innovative and pragmatic; throwing something as useful as the press out the window just wouldn't make sense. Eliminating the printing press in Europe? That's significantly more possible, perhaps even doable; in fact I can see a few avenues ITTL where that might have happened, e.g banning it for religious/political purposes due to the perceived prevalence of printed heretical/dissident books. The Ottomans managed to pull it off, in fact. But losing it in Europe and West Asia doesn't make the technology lost to Earth.

I would like to see a world in which technology and infrastructure stayed mostly stagnant at the level of the ancient world, but I'm not sure how that could be realistically done.

 

[LordKalvan]

Even a religious ban would not be enough. The know how would go underground but would not be lost. Maybe a virgin fields epidemic, but I doubt it would be enough since it would have to affect all of Eurasia and the Americas and North Africa. Even the most malignant mutation would not be enough. Please don't mention a meteorite impact a la Peshawar Lancers. It would be ASB.

 

[raharris1973]

Eliminating the printing press in Europe? That's significantly more possible, perhaps even doable; in fact I can see a few avenues ITTL where that might have happened, e.g banning it for religious/political purposes due to the perceived prevalence of printed heretical/dissident books. The Ottomans managed to pull it off, in fact. But losing it in Europe and West Asia doesn't make the technology lost to Earth.

Let's just do this then- East Asia never loses their version of the press, but Europe and West Asia do.

Can the tech be lost for a couple centuries? Is a religious ban sufficient (Kalvan doesn't think so) or something bigger like Mongols Mark 2.0, nasty plagues, a deep little ice age or something else on that catastrophic a scale to do the trick.

 

[Falecius]

Let's just do this then- East Asia never loses their version of the press, but Europe and West Asia do.

Can the tech be lost for a couple centuries? Is a religious ban sufficient (Kalvan doesn't think so) or something bigger like Mongols Mark 2.0, nasty plagues, a deep little ice age or something else on that catastrophic a scale to do the trick.

In West Asia, Islam never banned printing, although it was disapproved and discouraged. Christians however used it in the Ottoman lands, as I believe Jews did. So i concur, a religious ban probably is not enough.

 

[Jürgen]

I can't see a religious ban happen, and even in the very unlikely case it did happen, the princes, nobles and burghers of Europe would complete ignore the ban, and likely make some comments about the Pope being unhinged. They ignored the ban on usuries and crossbows, and the ban on usuries at least had some theological arguments behind it. Printing press on the other hand was pretty much just a tool.

 

[Jürgen]

In West Asia, Islam never banned printing, although it was disapproved and discouraged. Christians however used it in the Ottoman lands, as I believe Jews did. So i concur, a religious ban probably is not enough.

The Ottoman "ban" was fundamental about the scribes guilds pushing a ban on it (with a weak religious argument behind it), and yes Christians and Jews was allowed to use it, it was only restricted for Muslims.

 

[Falecius]

The Ottoman "ban" was fundamental about the scribes guilds pushing a ban on it (with a weak religious argument behind it), and yes Christians and Jews was allowed to use it, it was only restricted for Muslims.

More complicated than that, but essentially correct. The argument, in my understanding, was more aesthetic than religious, although in that context it is hard to separate the two aspects.