AH Brainstorm: World Without a Wheel

[rewster]

Knowing that some form of civilization is possible, at least, from our knowledge of the Mesoamerican and Peruvian cultures, without any real use of the wheel...
What level of culture, technology, and general knowledge is possible in a world where the wheel was simply not invented?

Obviously, the bronze age can be reached, and significant advances in astronomy, mathematics, etc. are possible, as the Peruvians and Mesoamericans proved, respectively.
What technological innovations are achievable?
Could we, eventually, (even thousands of years later than OTL) achieve a level of technology comparable with our own? Or is this simply too ridiculous because someone would eventually invent the wheel? How late into things could it be delayed? If you could pick an era from our own history as the latest possible date for the invention of the wheel, what would it be?

EDIT Oh, and what about types of government, economies, religious development, etc.? Would these be affected in any significant way?

 

[Tocomocho]

Great horizons to explore, for sure...

I would say that the civ development in Eurasia would be slower by far compared to OTL, as trading and transport would have less range and speed. The only existing horses would be wild and 'untameable' animals living in the forests and plains of Eurasia, because it was the necessity of faster war chariots what encouraged the breeding of bigger, stronger, faster and more docile horses, thing that ultimately (and ironically) made war chariots obsolete as the animals became big enough to carry warriors on their back instead of on chariots. Donkeys and camels, on the other hand, would be the most extended pack animals. Not sure if these animals or any would be used as riding animals on battle without the horse example, however. The spreading of iron would have been slower and not linked to any Indoeuropean explosion, so Europe and the Middle East would have a bigger variety of languages not similar at all with any existing OTL language (except, perhaps, Basque).

 

[Riain]

The wheel allows things like gears, so we wouldn't have wind and watermills let alone steam power generation. We would reach a higher level than the Americas did in 1492 at the same time as a result of having draught animals such as oxen, but not get to where we are today. I wonder how much the Americas would have developed if they embraced the wheel to its non-animal-pulling limits.

 

[Gladi]

Bright day
There are also won't be a potter's wheel, so certain commodities will be harder to trade.

 

[Othniel]

I'd look to the Inca. They never devolped the wheel.Many of their inventionswere based around being wheeless, for example for potery they devolpeda method of rolling clay, and then pinching it together in a circle. Their emporers were carried on chairs with poles extending from it... etc.

 

[Max Sinister]

@Gladi: The Amerindians had the potters' wheel. Heck, they even had toys with wheels. Problem: Which animals to pull chariots / whatever, they're not very useful.

No wheel also means: No cog, no pulley...

 

[rewster]

@Gladi: The Amerindians had the potters' wheel. Heck, they even had toys with wheels. Problem: Which animals to pull chariots / whatever, they're not very useful.

No wheel also means: No cog, no pulley...

They didn't have the potter's wheel... what they had was a very primitive version, which was really just a slab of wood they turned with their feet. At least I can't find any reference to a true potter's wheel on the internet other than some Mormon links.

 

[rewster]

Some ideas that don't seem to be directly dependent on the wheel (in no way exhaustive):

communication:
alphabet
paper
heliography/semaphore

agriculture:
plow

military:
gunpowder

manufacturing:
iron working

transportation:
sailing vessels
hot air balloons
rockets
pulse jets?


And things that aren't possible:
agriculture:
seed drill

manufacturing:
spinning wheel
potter's wheel?
flywheels, cogs, pulleys
windmill, waterwheel

transportation:
turbines
any wheeled vehicle

And the question remains as to whether some of these indirectly require knowledge of the wheel, because that's all just off the top of my head.

 

[Max Sinister]

Indirectly the wheel helped creating bigger empires. For the chariots, they had to build better roads, because they don't go well on bad ground; after they had roads, this created more trade, more exchange of ideas, and bigger empires also mean more scientists, by numbers alone.

This doesn't mean that any progress in Aztec/Maya/Inca empires would be stopped, but I think it would go slower.

 

[Riain]

The Americans may not have had draft animals but they also missed out on wheelbarrows, trolleys, rickshaws, etc. They also missed out on water and windmills, which supercharged the old world civilisations. Thus they couldn't pump water out of mines, crush rock, grind bulk grain and lots of other things which the wheel allows.

 

[Othniel]

Indirectly the wheel helped creating bigger empires. For the chariots, they had to build better roads, because they don't go well on bad ground; after they had roads, this created more trade, more exchange of ideas, and bigger empires also mean more scientists, by numbers alone.

This doesn't mean that any progress in Aztec/Maya/Inca empires would be stopped, but I think it would go slower.

The Inca were renown for their road system, connecting all parts of their empire to their capital to keep them well supplied.However the Inca had one of the few domesicated animals in the americas.

 

[Malta]

The Americans may not have had draft animals but they also missed out on wheelbarrows, trolleys, rickshaws, etc. They also missed out on water and windmills, which supercharged the old world civilisations. Thus they couldn't pump water out of mines, crush rock, grind bulk grain and lots of other things which the wheel allows.

But the Inca could build entire towns over 7,000 up on mountains, morterless. Also had quite sucessful skull surgery, kept information on a series of knots, grew crops on the side of mountain slopes, and the world's first federalism style government. Also 3 animals for transportation or carrying.

THough the Maya did have wheels, they were only used on toys.

 

[Lady Morganna Skyfire]

Although not AH perse (more like post-apocalyptic Earth colony type-thing) read the Homecomming Series by Orson Scott Card. Full blown civ without the wheel.

 

[Keenir]

The only existing horses would be wild and 'untameable' animals living in the forests and plains of Eurasia, because it was the necessity of faster war chariots what encouraged the breeding of bigger, stronger, faster and more docile horses, thing that ultimately (and ironically) made war chariots obsolete as the animals became big enough to carry warriors on their back instead of on chariots. Donkeys and camels, on the other hand, would be the most extended pack animals. Not sure if these animals or any would be used as riding animals on battle without the horse example, however.

lack of a wheel wouldn't prevent the domestication of the horse...nor horse-based armies.