A True orient express?

CelticSky17 · Mar 29, 2016

In our timeline, the orient express is a magical, imagination inspiring railway line originally from Paris to Istanbul (or Constantinople as the ad's of the time would have you believe

) but also coming from London in later times.

My question is what would it take to have a huge orient express.. to the far east? China!

What countries would it run through? How would it be maintained and operated through so many nations? Would it even be possible?

Can you imagine one of those gorgeous art-deco posters for a railway from London to Beijing or Hong kong?

Veiovis · Mar 29, 2016

so many nations? Paris-beijing could be build across 4 nations,france,germany,russia and china

CelticSky17 · Mar 29, 2016

Well.. yeah i guess it could

I guess i had something in mind that still goes through Istanbul?

MrP · Mar 29, 2016

Perhaps Germany provides earlier help to the Ottoman Empire and the Constantinople-Baghdad railroad is completed before 1914. Not to be outdone, Britain builds a railroad from Karachi to Basra, through Bandar Abbas and Shiraz in Persia. Later on the two railroads are linked, at which point it becomes possible to ride a train from Paris to Calcutta.

The eastern end of the route is trickier, though.

wietze · Mar 29, 2016

it exists, it is called the trans-siberia express
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Siberian_Railway

northern route can only go through russia, although it could go south earlier (as otl mostly)

southern route: istanbul- baghdad -bandar abbas-karachi - new delhi - dhaka - manadalay -Hanoi - guangzhou - fuzhou - nanjing - beijing

(hmz idea for railroad tycoon scenario)

BenC · Mar 29, 2016

Until recently, having not actually read up on it, I'd always assumed that the Orient Express actually did go to China.

Don't the Russians use a different gauge to other nations? Might cause an issue if connecting up lines.

KACKO · Mar 29, 2016

Britannic Kingsguard said:
Until recently, having not actually read up on it, I'd always assumed that the Orient Express actually did go to China.

Don't the Russians use a different gauge to other nations? Might cause an issue if connecting up lines.

Just get earlier station where undercarriages will be changed or have dual gauge trains.

trurle · Mar 29, 2016

CelticSky17 said:
In our timeline, the orient express is a magical, imagination inspiring railway line originally from Paris to Istanbul (or Constantinople as the ad's of the time would have you believe ) but also coming from London in later times.

My question is what would it take to have a huge orient express.. to the far east? China!

What countries would it run through? How would it be maintained and operated through so many nations? Would it even be possible?

Can you imagine one of those gorgeous art-deco posters for a railway from London to Beijing or Hong kong?

The shortest route Paris-Beijing should pass through Sankt-Peterburg. If think the southern route is not practical due necessary amount of tunneling and political instability in Middle Asia.
See the map link.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=48.86N2.35E+-+39.92N116.38E
The route is through France, Belguim, may be stops in Netherlands and Denmark, Germany, Russian Poland, Russia itself, and China. Travel time from Paris to Beijing is 6-7 days with the technology of late 19th century. Actually if railway is implemented properly, in 20th Century the Manchuria is going to be isolated from the rest of China and become an independent state (something like beefed-up Manchukuo)

DaveB · Mar 29, 2016

In addition to the traditional route to Vladivostok, the Trans-Siberian Express nowadays runs a Moscow-Beijing service via Ulan Bator. Details including map here:

http://www.transsiberianexpress.net/trans-mongolian-trains.html

Details include change of gauge at the Chinese border, four hour stop to change bogies, good views of the Great Wall. Transit visa for Mongolia may be required.

oshron · Mar 29, 2016

the Berlin-Baghdad Railway would be a good place to start, and i'd imagine one of the more plausible routes to take otherwise would be on top of/parallel to the Silk Road

riggerrob · Mar 29, 2016

The old "Silk Road" included multiple routes through deserts and mountains. Sections of the Silk Road were abandoned or by-passed if floods washed out roads or bandits made them too dangerous.
Few modern engineers would even attempt building a railroad up some of those steeper grades!
Hah!
Hah!
The challenge is finding a pass through the mountains of North-Eastern Persia that had shallow enough slopes for 1900-vintage locomotives. My guess is that the railroad will still require dozens of switch-backs.

Alternate History Geek · Mar 29, 2016

riggerrob said:
The old "Silk Road" included multiple routes through deserts and mountains. Sections of the Silk Road were abandoned or by-passed if floods washed out roads or bandits made them too dangerous.
Few modern engineers would even attempt building a railroad up some of those steeper grades!
Hah!
Hah!
The challenge is finding a pass through the mountains of North-Eastern Persia that had shallow enough slopes for 1900-vintage locomotives. My guess is that the railroad will still require dozens of switch-backs.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of blasting a tunnel...

trurle · Mar 29, 2016

Alternate History Geek said:
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of blasting a tunnel...

Tunnels is workable solution..in 2010 or later. For 1900, simply there was not enough tunneling equipment to brave the mountains along the Silk Road. With just dynamite, the work will be nicely finished by 2000 AD though. Have a happy blasting!

The Gunslinger · Mar 29, 2016

trurle said:
Tunnels is workable solution..in 2010 or later. For 1900, simply there was not enough tunneling equipment to brave the mountains along the Silk Road. With just dynamite, the work will be nicely finished by 2000 AD though. Have a happy blasting!

That's only if you build it end to end. The best way to be to build multiple sections at once. It's still a lot of mountains and it would be be very, very expensive, but the technology at the time could have done it.

I think a bigger challenge would be the monumental interstate diplomacy involved in paying for it.

oshron · Mar 29, 2016

and who's to say they have to tunnel directly through the mountains? they could easily demolish part of the mountainsides and use the rubble to level out the rest of the projected path

New Cleo Genesis · Mar 30, 2016

Surprised no one has mentioned Claudius Bombarnac yet. In it, the train departs from Baku, crosses the Caspian in a ferry and proceeds to the steppes of Central Asia. Unsurprisingly for a book written in the 1890's Verne didn't quite know how difficult a region like Sinkiang really is to a railway engineer...

Alternate History Geek · Mar 30, 2016

trurle said:
Tunnels is workable solution..in 2010 or later. For 1900, simply there was not enough tunneling equipment to brave the mountains along the Silk Road. With just dynamite, the work will be nicely finished by 2000 AD though. Have a happy blasting!

You might be surprised to know that blasting tunnels was, in fact, a mature technology even in 1900.

The Gunslinger said:
That's only if you build it end to end. The best way to be to build multiple sections at once. It's still a lot of mountains and it would be be very, very expensive, but the technology at the time could have done it.

I think a bigger challenge would be the monumental interstate diplomacy involved in paying for it.

oshron said:
and who's to say they have to tunnel directly through the mountains? they could easily demolish part of the mountainsides and use the rubble to level out the rest of the projected path

Both of these.