A Queen Twice Over: Mary Tudor the Elder Marries Francis I of France

[Awkwardvulture]

Oh boy, an audacious plan, but not one without some strategic merit, but I suspect this will not go the way Nemours and Lorraine want it to.

 

[colleoni]

If Jean’s behavior is making them hemorrhage men, what do Nemours and Lorraine think holding toddlers hostage is going to do to their popularity?

Appear close enough to a win-or-stall position, instead of a sinking ship.
Mind you, a still very precarious position, but a less obvious one.

 

[BlueFlowwer]

These two assholes need to face the axe, NOW.

 

[FalconHonour]

If Jean’s behavior is making them hemorrhage men, what do Nemours and Lorraine think holding toddlers hostage is going to do to their popularity?

Appear close enough to a win-or-stall position, instead of a sinking ship.
Mind you, a still very precarious position, but a less obvious one.

Well, exactly. Better to be seen to be doing *something*, whatever that may be, than nothing at all...

Oh boy, an audacious plan, but not one without some strategic merit, but I suspect this will not go the way Nemours and Lorraine want it to.

François wouldn't be half Valois, half Tudor if he let these traitors have it all their own way.

These two assholes need to face the axe, NOW.

Nemours, I grant you, but Lorraine does have the protection of being a Cardinal. He can't exactly be executed without serious blowback from the Church....

 

[BriarRose]

Nemours, I grant you, but Lorraine does have the protection of being a Cardinal. He can't exactly be executed without serious blowback from the Church....

I don’t see the Pope condoning the kidnapping of two children without a hefty bribe…and in the topic of bribes, François could easily make one to make him look away as Lorraine is executed or at the very least, imprisoned for life

 

[vandevere]

Well, exactly. Better to be seen to be doing *something*, whatever that may be, than nothing at all...

François wouldn't be half Valois, half Tudor if he let these traitors have it all their own way.

Nemours, I grant you, but Lorraine does have the protection of being a Cardinal. He can't exactly be executed without serious blowback from the Church....

It all depends upon the Pope then... He could look away if he wanted to...

 

[Tudorfan]

Never mind Renee's. François won't stay in Chinon for long, not when his children are threatened.

Forget Francois and Renee. When Marie learns her grandbabies are in danger, the Tudor temper is going to fly.

Also, do I sense death coming?

 

[FalconHonour]

Forget Francois and Renee. When Marie learns her grandbabies are in danger, the Tudor temper is going to fly.

Also, do I sense death coming?

It's a rebellion. Do you really think there wouldn't be death?

I don’t see the Pope condoning the kidnapping of two children without a hefty bribe…and in the topic of bribes, François could easily make one to make him look away as Lorraine is executed or at the very least, imprisoned for life

This is true.

It all depends upon the Pope then... He could look away if he wanted to...

Or he could not. Either is possible.

 

[Tudorfan]

Or he could not. Either is possible.

I think the Pope might have to look away. Does he really want to have his church associated with the kidnappers of children?

 

[FalconHonour]

I think the Pope might have to look away. Does he really want to have his church associated with the kidnappers of children?

Well, you have a point, but honour must be satisfied on both sides. He has to be asked, at the very least...

 

[Tudorfan]

Well, you have a point, but honour must be satisfied on both sides. He has to be asked, at the very least...

Asked, yes. Probably turning away to avoid offending France? Definitely.

 

[FalconHonour]

Asked, yes. Probably turning away to avoid offending France? Definitely.

Fair.

 

[Ogrebear]

“The Cardinal’s plan to try to seize control of the Dauphin,” is bold, risky, and will go down the the history books as a ‘brilliant move that changed everything’ or ‘dumb as a box of rocks, don’t try this!’

 

[isabella]

Lorraine would NOT be executed. He is a religious and Francis can not do that. What he can do is expelling Lorraine from France and stripping all his french revenues, but he can not do more than sending him to Rome…

 

[FalconHonour]

Lorraine would NOT be executed. He is a religious and Francis can not do that. What he can do is expelling Lorraine from France and stripping all his french revenues, but he can not do more than sending him to Rome…

Henry IV executed Archbishop Scrope, so it *can* be done. It's not advisable, but it can be done.

“The Cardinal’s plan to try to seize control of the Dauphin,” is bold, risky, and will go down the the history books as a ‘brilliant move that changed everything’ or ‘dumb as a box of rocks, don’t try this!’

Indeed. The conspirators are hoping for the former, of course!

 

[isabella]

Henry IV executed Archbishop Scrope, so it *can* be done. It's not advisable, but it can be done.

He was excommunicated for that and Scrope was NOT a Cardinal (who is a little different from being a bishop or archbishop)

 

[FalconHonour]

He was excommunicated for that and Scrope was NOT a Cardinal (who is a little different from being a bishop or archbishop)

He was, but he was also forgiven fairly quickly, so Renee (who has her OTL Huguenot sympathies) may think it worth the risk...

 

[isabella]

He was, but he was also forgiven fairly quickly, so Renee (who has her OTL Huguenot sympathies) may think it worth the risk...

Again Scrope was only an Archbishop NOT a Cardinal and there is difference between the two things

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Again Scrope was only an Archbishop NOT a Cardinal and there is difference between the two things

What would be the main ones?

 

[pandizzy]

What would be the main ones?

Cardinals are higher ranked. They can choose and be the next pope.