A Greek Pope in 1458?

[Don_Giorgio]

A Greek Pope in 1455?

In the 1455 Conclave the two main factions of the cardinals were divided between the followers of Prospero Colonna and Latino Orsini; among the Papabille were Barbo, Trevisan, Capranica, Orsini, and Bessarion. Capranica recieved a plurality on the first three scrutinies, with the other votes scattered; Orsini and the French cardinals rallied against Capranica because he was close to Colonna.
On April 6, Easter Sunday, the factions began to consider neutral candidates. In this capacity, Basilios Bessarion was able to receive eight votes, before his candidacy was scuttled following a speech by Alain de Coetivy—recorded by eyewitnesses—which emphasized Bessarion's former membership in the Eastern Orthodox Church and his retention of Greek mannerisms, such as a full beard.

Bessarion made no attempt to defend himself, claiming he was not interested in being elected; his reputations for reform and austerity also would have been unpopular with many of the Renaissance cardinals. Nevertheless, the renowned humanist scholar remained a strong candidate in the following 1464 conclave as well.
WI Bessarion was elected on 6 April if an accessus was held or if Alain Cardinal de Coetivy never makes his speech or if he defends himself against his nemesis? How is a Greek Pope affects History? Any thoughts?

 

[Matthais Corvinus]

Having an austere Pope at the beginning of the Renaissance could curb some of the future excesses of the Church, while at the same time his sponsorship of Greek learning could put Rome on the early cutting edge of the Renaissance- imagine the full resources of Rome put behind humanist learning. He also lived til 1472, which gives him a fair amount of time to put his stamp on the Papacy.

 

[proximefactum]

The Byzantine-Greek liturgy in the Lateran and St. Peter's! Excellent! (Aside -- I think that JP II celebrated the the Divine Liturgy in Ukrainian in public at least once. Maybe other Popes have celebrated the Byzantine Liturgy as well.) Anyway, I agree that the election of a "Greek" Pope in 1458 could put some brakes on the extravagance and moral impropiety of the corrupt Roman court. This could only happen if he were willing to cut some deals with the Curia. I don't think there's a way this Pope could take an absolute moral high ground and curb all of the Roman abuses.

I highly doubt the Greek Pope would make it through the Papacy if he refused to play along with the Italian nobles and also have some give and take concerning temporal matters. If the Greek Pope neglected his temporal state of affairs, and let the nobles take the upper hand, I would expect that he might have some difficulties with maintaining the papal holdings in central Italy. His "austerity" might result in another prince marching down the papal lands and stirring up a land grab.

BTW at the current time there is technically no prohibition on a non-Latin rite cardinal becoming the Pope. Practically, this will never happen, but nevertheless an Eastern prelate could become Holy Father. I think most of the Eastern cardinals are non-electors (over 80), but the Archbishop of the Ukrainian Catholics is an elector if the conclave is held within a few years. I say, go for it, but would an Easterner want to say the Novus Ordo on a regular basis?

 

[Grey Wolf]

But we might never get the Borgias and history would be so much the poorer...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

 

[Don_Giorgio]

BTW at the current time there is technically no prohibition on a non-Latin rite cardinal becoming the Pope. Practically, this will never happen, but nevertheless an Eastern prelate could become Holy Father. I think most of the Eastern cardinals are non-electors (over 80), but the Archbishop of the Ukrainian Catholics is an elector if the conclave is held within a few years. I say, go for it, but would an Easterner want to say the Novus Ordo on a regular basis?

The election of an Eastern-rite Catholic is not prohibited but is certainly avoided nowadays since an election such as this would enrage the Orthodoxs and move the Catholic-Orthodox Dialogue decades back...
Anyway back to the TL... Bessarion as a Cardinal was at odds with the French Kings (an insult by Louis XI hastened his death in 1472)
Would he be anti-French as a Pope too? Or he would sweaten them in order to get his Crusade?

 

[Gonzaga]

Anyway back to the TL... Bessarion as a Cardinal was at odds with the French Kings (an insult by Louis XI hastened his death in 1472)
Would he be anti-French as a Pope too? Or he would sweaten them in order to get his Crusade?

This insult happened much time later, in 1471, when he was an ambassator to Louis XI. If he is elected Pope in 1458 he never becomes ambassator, and there is no reason to him be anti-French.

 

[Don_Giorgio]

This insult happened much time later, in 1471, when he was an ambassator to Louis XI. If he is elected Pope in 1458 he never becomes ambassator, and there is no reason to him be anti-French.

How about constant pressing to the European monarchs to launch a Crusade? In OTL Pope Pius II nearly made it but he died in Ancona in 1464 while waiting the Venetian fleet to carry the Crusader's army to Constantinople... After his death the Crusade melted away...

P.S. I corrected the dates... it was the 1455 Conclave... not the 1458...

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Having an austere Pope at the beginning of the Renaissance could curb some of the future excesses of the Church, while at the same time his sponsorship of Greek learning could put Rome on the early cutting edge of the Renaissance- imagine the full resources of Rome put behind humanist learning. He also lived til 1472, which gives him a fair amount of time to put his stamp on the Papacy.

I think an austere Pope in this period would have grown very ill after a meal and died suddenly.

 

[Don_Giorgio]

I think an austere Pope in this period would have grown very ill after a meal and died suddenly.

Maybe but suspicion would fell immediately to Cardinals d'Estouteville and Coetivy... And France wouldnt want 2 of her Cardinals be implicated in foul play against the Pope... it would have disturbed the balance of powers in Italy...

 

[Don_Giorgio]

This insult happened much time later, in 1471, when he was an ambassator to Louis XI. If he is elected Pope in 1458 he never becomes ambassator, and there is no reason to him be anti-French.

Indeed... If Bessarion is elected Pope though he would have pressed the French to go on a Crusade to recapture Constantinople... He would have to make great promises though to French and other Catholic powers to lure them into a Crusade...

 

[Matthais Corvinus]

The Byzantine-Greek liturgy in the Lateran and St. Peter's! Excellent! (Aside -- I think that JP II celebrated the the Divine Liturgy in Ukrainian in public at least once. Maybe other Popes have celebrated the Byzantine Liturgy as well.) Anyway, I agree that the election of a "Greek" Pope in 1458 could put some brakes on the extravagance and moral impropiety of the corrupt Roman court. This could only happen if he were willing to cut some deals with the Curia. I don't think there's a way this Pope could take an absolute moral high ground and curb all of the Roman abuses.

He was a Latin-rite Cardinal who had been born in the Byzantine Empire, and who accepted the Latin-rite Church when John VIII Palaeologus negotiated a reconciliation. His acceptance was resented in Greece, and he moved permanently to Italy.

I highly doubt the Greek Pope would make it through the Papacy if he refused to play along with the Italian nobles and also have some give and take concerning temporal matters. If the Greek Pope neglected his temporal state of affairs, and let the nobles take the upper hand, I would expect that he might have some difficulties with maintaining the papal holdings in central Italy. His "austerity" might result in another prince marching down the papal lands and stirring up a land grab.

His support of humanist learners was extensive OTL. In ATL he would have access to the vast resources of the Church to support his stable of humanists. Humanism had a reformist strain in it that combined with Bessarion's neutrality in Roman noble politics would result in at least a redirection of revenue to the 'new learning' that he championed.

 

[Don_Giorgio]

He was a Latin-rite Cardinal who had been born in the Byzantine Empire, and who accepted the Latin-rite Church when John VIII Palaeologus negotiated a reconciliation. His acceptance was resented in Greece, and he moved permanently to Italy.



His support of humanist learners was extensive OTL. In ATL he would have access to the vast resources of the Church to support his stable of humanists. Humanism had a reformist strain in it that combined with Bessarion's neutrality in Roman noble politics would result in at least a redirection of revenue to the 'new learning' that he championed.

Actually Bessarion would have 2 goals in his Papacy... 1. to continue Nicholas's V policy of Humanism and 2. Try and persuade European Monarchs to join a Crusade against Constantinople...