A Different Destiny in the East?

[Franz Josef II]

The Versailles Treaty - imposed border with Poland in the East was a major cause of contention between the two countries, as many of us know. The decision to remove German suzerainty over Danzig and establish it as a "free city" was unjust according to the principles of self - determination and merely added to the resentment felt in Germany in the post war years.

Now, suppose Germany got a - slightly - better outcome in the east? What if instead of detaching west prussia and making it a part of Poland, there had been a population transfer - such that the Poles in west Prussia went to Posen, and the Germans there went to west Prussia? As to Danzig, suppose that instead of removing it from German authority altogether, the Treaty Powers guarantee Poland unrestricted access via road and rail, with free use of all port facilities? In those uncertain days of 1918/1919, would it have been possible for the Entente to allow Poland to absorb Lithuania and re - establish the Intermarium? Perhaps Britain and France might see it as a solid counter to both Germany and the Bolsheviks?

And supposing that these things do come to pass in the Treaty, how do things unfold in Germany as far as traditional inter - war territorial claims? I am not talking solely about the Nazis, but the mood of many in Germany who wanted to see honor restored with a revision in the east. In this case where Germany has largely retained her traditional borders (albeit having to give certain privileges to Poland), might the annexation of Austria and occupation of Bohemia - Moravia be seen as "enough" or might people still see the need to "take back" something else?

 

[Hashoosh]

The biggest problem with Intermarium is that no-one wants it except for Pilsudski's faction in Poland (who aren't in power) and the Poles outside of Poland (who have no say...). The Lithuanians don't want it, and the Polish Government doesn't want it. So despite whatever Versailles says, it's not going to happen, barring a pre-war PoD.

Now, as for West-Preussen and the corridor, yeah it's an artifical construct, but the French already saw Versailles as too lenient. If you remove Poland's sea corridor, you've effectively neutered it in the eyes of the victors, and thinking of the time. This is of course regardless of the fact that Poland's position is laughably untenable with Versailles borders (as for that matter, is Czechoslovakia's). The crux of the problem is that without sea access, Poland would be at the mercy of the German government. Obviously, as you said, there could be provisions for guaranteed access to the sea. But, if you do that, why not just give the damn land to the Poles and be done with it? Anything that weakens Germany, strengthens France, after all!

 

[Franz Josef II]

Yes, as you say, that is the crux of the matter. It is going to be next to impossible for Germany to get a better deal in practically any circumstance due to the attitude of the Entente. To the victors go the spoils, and all that. I wonder though - if the United States pressed for greater say in post war settlements as a result of basically carrying the British and French to victory in 1918, might there be a chance that the eastern borders might be drawn up more fairly for Germany?

Though I suppose this leaves us in the same position of what can be done as far as giving Poland access to the sea.

 

[Snaut]

Yes, as you say, that is the crux of the matter. It is going to be next to impossible for Germany to get a better deal in practically any circumstance due to the attitude of the Entente. To the victors go the spoils, and all that. I wonder though - if the United States pressed for greater say in post war settlements as a result of basically carrying the British and French to victory in 1918, might there be a chance that the eastern borders might be drawn up more fairly for Germany?

Though I suppose this leaves us in the same position of what can be done as far as giving Poland access to the sea.

The "problem" with fairness is that besides details (such as perhaps allowing a plebiscite in Danzig a few decades later) the OTL border was about as fair as it could reasonably have gotten.

Now, as for West-Preussen and the corridor, yeah it's an artifical construct,

So it was artificial, even though Germans were a minority in the corridor even if you count the numerous state workers not native to the area?

 

[Hashoosh]

The "problem" with fairness is that besides details (such as perhaps allowing a plebiscite in Danzig a few decades later) the OTL border was about as fair as it could reasonably have gotten.



So it was artificial, even though Germans were a minority in the corridor even if you count the numerous state workers not native to the area?

I'm talking about the Sea Corridor, as in Danzig (Gdynia was a village at the time).

 

[Franz Josef II]

According to ethnic maps of the area, there was a substantial German minority that lived in what had been west prussia, just as there was a not - insignificant minority that lived in what had been Posen. By border revision I am suggesting that the creators of Versailles (for the purpose of this thread) decide to do a population swap: Poles in west prussia to posen, Germans in Posen to west Prussia. That would create a more homogeneous area for both states, which certainly would have been in the best interests of both parties.I suggested certain guarantees for transit and port rights could have been stipulated by the Treaty