"911" done by right wing extremists?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by HistoricalArthropod, Apr 15, 2019 at 9:23 AM.

  1. HistoricalArthropod Well-Known Member

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    What if instead of Islamists, it was right wing extremists who did 911 or something very similar to it? Say, either Neonazis or neoconfederates, or even a combination of both. What would be the result? Would we see a sort of reverse Mccarthyism? Would far right groups be marginalized and allow leftism to be more mainstream? Would the republican party more readily denounce racism and other bigotry to improve its pr?
     
  2. karatachi "Stay woke" - Gitmo Interrogator

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    Islamism is right wing.
     
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  3. HistoricalArthropod Well-Known Member

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    Clearly you know what I mean. I mean right wing in the American context, so neonazis, kkk and the like
     
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  4. kholieken Well-Known Member

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  5. Carl Schwamberger Well-Known Member

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    My first reflex was 'more Ruby Ridge' type incidents. But, such were in the context of Attorney General Janet Reno & similar Justice Dept & senior LE officials. One would have to take a close look at the people in those positions under the Bush Administration. Their reactions and style would have been different. If there is no coherent or convincing policy at the top, then reactions may be localized and vary. ie: New York State going bat shit aggressive if the Feds weakly or incompetently pursue evidence and perpetrators for a Aryan Nations fly in at the WTC. I suspect many in the administration will be confused and nonplussed by such a devastating event. Coherent policy would have to emerge at the very top, the President, or from the Attorney Generals office. There may be even some within the administration who would place more importance on 'spinning' the narrative & reaction so to not lose voter base.

    There also going to be a fair number on the left who will do their best to spin this against the administration, Republican party, the right in general, and all their other bogeymen. A 'war' on the right wing extremists never happened under the Clinton administration, despite crank claims, so its unlikely with G Bush as well.
     
  6. Mort the Reaper Well-Known Member

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    I read the "911" in the title as the emergency number. Needless to say, I was pretty confused until I read the OP.
     
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  7. HistoricalArthropod Well-Known Member

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    Certainly it would make right wing ideologies much less atractive to the general public no?
     
  8. HistoricalArthropod Well-Known Member

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    What would the public reaction be?
     
  9. Hall Bryson Wingfield Banned

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    • Ban

    Well I imagine that after the Bush administration successfully framed Al Queda they'd find an oil-rich country to invade and...oh wait
     
  10. Burton K Wheeler l'├ętat profond, c'est moi Moderator

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    This is not a site for conspiracy theories.

    Banned.
     
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  11. Emote Control Plenty of genius, not enough sense.

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    The reaction would be far less. Islam is outside most American's experience, so they're afraid of it. Right-wing ideas are not, so they're viewed much less fearfully. The truth is that, since 9/11, right-wing terrorism has claimed three times as many lives as Islamic terror IOTL, but we have all these wars and surveillance programs to "deal with" the latter, but nothing comparable for the former.

    Even a right-wing 9/11 wouldn't change this fundamental dynamic.
     
  12. HistoricalArthropod Well-Known Member

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    So, what would it take to get reverse Mccarthyism?
     
  13. Svyatoy Medved Well-Known Member

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    Hold your horses there. Islam is as inherently right-wing as any religion. To equate ALL of Islam with neonazis or neoconfederates is a misstep at the least. I find this far more ban-worthy than a conspiracy theory about a world that didn't happen.
     
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  14. TDM Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that would work in a 9/11 context (I agree with your general point vis-a-vis the perception of right wing terrorism and Islam)


    9/11 is just such a huge out of context thing it has the ability to redefine things on its own. Now with radical Islamic terrorism it didn't have to redefine things too far (the US/West was already pretty damn anti it after all and all the collateral stuff that goes with that), but I think you will see a national wide reclassification of right wing terrorism if 9/11 is caused by it.

    One of the things is that even though there are right wing extremest groups in the US right wing extremists terrorist acts tend to get put on the shoulders of individuals, now some of that is due to the narrative we often use to mitigate it but also because internal US security / law enforcement have recently generally done their best* to head off organised terrorist groups doing joined up terrorist campaigns on US soil.

    Even T.McVeigh while obviously part of larger extremest right wing scene was basically able to pull off the Oklahoma city bombing with only the direct help of a mate and shit load of ammonium nitrate and a rental truck.

    9/11 is not that, it requires teams, planing, training and organisation. I.e. it going to be really hard to sell the "lone impressionable nut tragedy, what can you do" narrative.

    Another point, if thsi 9/11 goes off like the OTL one that means a right wing extremest group with at least 19-20 actors willing to deliberately suicide attack, that will also change the narrative about brown people terrorism and white people driven to extreme action.


    So I think you will see:

    1) a massively scaled up FBI programme of going after established right wing groups and preventing them from being established (and post Oklahoma there had already been serious action against them)

    2). While some of the points the right wing extremists make wont be completely verboten from mainstream political discourse they will have to be much more careful in skirting that line and staying mainstream.

    3). Policing of the internet will come in hard and faster, and i suspect incitement to violence/terrorist acts will be more applied against the far right than it was OTL







    *Trumpo telling them to redirect elsewhere will have repercussions
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 9:58 AM
  15. Carl Schwamberger Well-Known Member

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    Be useful to have some sources for that. Are you referring to globally, or in the US? I'd not be surprised if it were true globally. Within the US the second longest running single 'religious' or right wing or right wing terror program seems to be the attacks on abortion clinic and assassination of doctors providing abortions. I don't claim any organized effort or conspiracy for that, but this terror activity has been ongoing for several decades. Terorrist or Hate Crime attacks on ethnic minorities & other groups like gay men & women in the aggregate add up. In the US Attacks on law enforcement and courts by conservative or neo fascist organizations seem to grossly outnumber attacks by the leftist organization.
     
  16. JN1 Has been called the C word on Twitter

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    The post said 'Islamism', not Islam. Islamism, Islamists, are often used as description of those who make up Al Q, IS etc, not mainstream Islam.
     
  17. Happy Nihilist Well-Known Member

    ASB. American right-wing extremists have no history of using suicide attacks, so getting 19 of them to sign up to such a mission is pretty implausible. And I cannot imagine them being able to create a narrative about how killing thousands of mainly white people is going to be in the interest of the nation or the white race or whatever. Terrorism against the out-group is much easier than against the in-group.
     
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  18. TDM Well-Known Member

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    it would be a big change

    Thing is about terrorism it thrives on making out groups. Plenty of Muslim on Muslim terrorist killings in the Mid East (and elsewhere), various groups in Ireland would have been able to wax lyrical about the vast gulf between different flavours of white & christian in NI.
    T.McVeigh didn't seem to have much of issue killing 168 mainly white christian Americans because he self justified them as enemy combatants / traitors what ever. i.e. "them" and "us" can always split down further
     
  19. Byzantine fanatic Pasha of the Rumistan beylik

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    No it isn't.

    Agreed. Although I don't think its ban-worthy. I would prefer less banning in general. It seems like we are losing members all the time (although the user who denied al Qaeda was behind 9/11 was going too far, and that ban was probably well deserved).

    This isn't right either. What you're describing is radical Islamists or perhaps more accurately extremist Islamists. Some Islamists can be left wing, some can be feminist, some can be centrist, others could be right wing, there's a whole spectrum. This post is another example (probably unintentional) of the problem that Islam is so often reduced down to "terrorism" which is simply a form of Islamophobic prejudice (although I don't believe there was any bad intention in this post, my point is more society's perceptions are like that, unfortunately).
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 10:20 AM
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  20. interpoltomo please don't do coke in the bathroom

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    Given the level of FBI infiltration of even the moderate right in the US, the most obvious consequence would be that whatever agent talked them into the op but DIDN'T arrest them all for conspiracy to commit terrorism probably gets canned.