19th Century w/o Napoleonic Wars

[John Fredrick Parker]

As it says on the can; the War of the Second Coalition goes (more or less) as OTL. For this thread, we can worry less about the particulars of how this is achieved* than with how avoiding one of the most transformative conflicts in European history alters the transformative century that followed it.

*though I'm thinking of this as the PoD, FWTW

 

[Vanity 6]

Well, the wars stirred nationalism all over Central and Eastern Europe so that would be delayed significantly. French and German language and culture would continue to be influential among the aristocracies. Particularism would survive longer with delayed unification of Germany and Italy likely. Polish borders of Austria, Russia and Prussia would be set at 1795 settlement. This would make Prussia very....Polish and perhaps less likely a driver of German unity (whatever that might look like).

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

@Vanity 6 Yeah, on the one hand, the Holy Roman Empire is still more or less done for, and France is still the hegemon of Northern Italy (minus Venice, which Austria holds); on the other hand, the Papal States and Naples still stand in the way of any future prospects of Italian Unification, and even if France complete undercuts Austrian power among the minor German states (as Napoleon did 1802 OTL), any hope of a lasting peace is going to depend on doing so in a way that does not trample over the concerns of Prussia and Russia (which, at least according to Esdaile, Napoleon did OTL).

On top of which, there's also the Batavian Republic still existing, Austria getting more ethnicities (Poles and Venetians) without the strain of having to fight a conscription army, not to mention Spain avoiding the Peninsular War, etc...

CONSOLIDATION: What about other aspects of the legacy of these wars -- for example, even if France still institutes their own new Civil Code, would the rest of Europe follow suit as much as they did OTL? Without needing to pull together and revolutionize to topple the French dictator, what does this mean for the civil systems and interstate politics of Europe? What of Latin America? Or the rise of Romanticism? Or the Industrial Revolution?

 

[ImperatorAnonymous]

Latin America might see some revolts, most of an Autonomist character, and a few ones of an actually independentist character, but otherwise remains in the Spanish Crown. IOTL the real drive behind the 1810 Juntas was Ferdinand's abdication to Napoleon (seen as illegitimate) and later his choice to ignore said juntas would lead to them proclaiming themselves independent (mostly)... Take away the Peninsular War, and you might see a few more incidents like Miranda's revolt in the early 1800s, but not full-fledged independence movements...

 

[CaliGuy]

This would make Prussia very....Polish and perhaps less likely a driver of German unity (whatever that might look like).

Could we see Prussia attempting to recruit large numbers of ethnic Germans from other German states to settle in its part of Poland in this TL?

 

[Salvador79]

Could we see Prussia attempting to recruit large numbers of ethnic Germans from other German states to settle in its part of Poland in this TL?

Not in this time frame, not in large numbers. The industrial revolution has already begun, and when it fully unfolds on the continent, then Lorraine, the Ruhr region, Silesia etc. are going to become population magnets. No reason for anyone to go to the poor Prussian backwater, even more so since there`s no longer any virgin lands left to promise landless people their own homestead at this point (in contrast to the Middle Ages, or even to the situation around this time in much of the Russian Empire or in North America).

 

[Salvador79]

@Vanity 6CONSOLIDATION: What about other aspects of the legacy of these wars -- for example, even if France still institutes their own new Civil Code, would the rest of Europe follow suit as much as they did OTL? Without needing to pull together and revolutionize to topple the French dictator, what does this mean for the civil systems and interstate politics of Europe? What of Latin America? Or the rise of Romanticism? Or the Industrial Revolution?

Legal reforms would certainly not be as convergent as IOTL. But the political reform movement is not in a bad shape. It is bound to have less of a lopside towards nationalism, favouring republican ideals more in a way that is a continuation of the trends of the 18th century. And it is faced with a diverse landscape of pliant and less pliant governments, instead of the bulwark that the (Un)Holy Alliance was.
The industrial revolution is still somewhat on track, I`d suppose.
Romanticism, to the degree that it is a reaction against both incipient industrialisation and the bloody excesses of the French revolution, will still unfold. It may take on a less nationalist character, again, though. Maybe it´s even openly reactionary.