1982 and beyond-alternate history of FIFA World Cups
- Thread starter Jan Olbracht
- Start date
So in Round of 16 we have:
Brazil vs Netherlands
Spain vs West Germany
Ireland vs Cameroon
Italy vs Poland
Scotland vs Mexico
Belgium vs Uruguay
Argentina vs Czechoslovakia
France vs England (Hundred Years' War is still going on
)
Brazil vs Netherlands
Spain vs West Germany
Ireland vs Cameroon
Italy vs Poland
Scotland vs Mexico
Belgium vs Uruguay
Argentina vs Czechoslovakia
France vs England (Hundred Years' War is still going on
)
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Brazil vs Netherlands
Spain vs West Germany
Ireland vs Cameroon
Italy vs Poland
Scotland vs Mexico
Belgium vs Uruguay
Argentina vs Czechoslovakia
France vs England
Spain vs West Germany
Ireland vs Cameroon
Italy vs Poland
Scotland vs Mexico
Belgium vs Uruguay
Argentina vs Czechoslovakia
France vs England
Agree! Wow...let's see how it happens!..in OTL 1990, Argentina reached the final with a big quote of luck and epic, due the squad was plagued with several injuries....only Troglio, Caniggia and Goycochea can considered themselves in really top form...the most famous case was Maradona's ankle and the stomped toe, and you can count Oscar Ruggeri's pubalgia or the muscular injuries of Julio Olarticoechea and Jorge Burruchaga, to name a few.... hence why Argentina used negative tactics, simply they did what they can, not what they wanted. Argentina, perhaps, wasn't superior to any of his rivals, but none of their rivals was superior to Argentina except Brazil, and Germany but this last in terms of ball possessions...not in clear goal chances, and that argentina played with 4 line-up, usual players, less (Batista, Olarticochea, Giusti and Caniggia)...and Ruggeri that was substitued by Monzon after 1st half because he was in extreme pain.
So, if Argentinian squad would have been able to came in good shape, I dare to say that results could be different... this 1st place in round robin opened an interesting scenario....
For me, one of Bilardo's biggest mistake, was not to take to Italy to a 20 year old Diego Simeone (dispatched in the eve of the list) and to not to insist for Fernando Redondo, after Redondo quit in 1989 due personal reasons... This two players, would have been an interesting fresh air of football and force in that squad.
@Jan Olbracht , congratulations for your TL!
Something I consider for the future (that may impact 1994 tournament) is different fate of Maradona after tournament. Do you think it would help him if he stayed in Napoli for longer?
Maradona had everything ready to go to Olympique de Marseille in 1989, but Napoli president Corrado Ferlaino told him, "if I let you go, they'll kill me" (he told him after Napoli won UEFA CUP in 1989, and captured by the TV cameras, although not the audio) ... so he didn't let him go. Napoli loved Maradona, still loves him, but Napoli city did not let him breathe and live, in addition to that, his relationships with the rest of Italy and his great mouth to declare, made things worse, not counting his addictions. Hence, he wanted to go to a more "calm" football. When Italia 90 arrives, it was the breaking point, as they booed the Argentinian anthem in each game (they actually booed Maradona), the famous screenshot of Maradona yelling "sons of bitches, sons of bitches", in the final against Germany is the perfect sample. Italia 90 was the inevitable breaking down point in the relationship between Italy and Maradona. From there, the protection and especially as Maradona wanted to flee from Italy, did the rest. Some say that the doping of March 1991 was the sign of the end of the protection, added to the fact that he was also sought by Maradona, to leave Italy without weighing the consequences. I think that things for Maradona would have been better if he had gone to Olympique in 1989, although the main mistake was the contract that Maradona signed in 1987, until 1993, at the expense of his Manager Guillermo Coppola, who thought that being at the time in that they were, it was the best ... if they had signed it for 2 years, as was the initial intention, much would have been different later.
I'm asking as I have a bit longer Maradona's era in plans. Although I want to avoid spoilers here, so I may ask you some questions via PM?
Round of 16, part 1
Italian tournament was dominated by defensive tactics. Round of 16 was not exception.
First match of knockout stage, between Argentina and Czechoslovakia, ended with 1-0 victory of defending champions after goal scored near end of first half by defender Juan Simon, for whom it was first and only goal scored for national team.
Second match played on the same day between Scotland and Mexico happened to be more thrilling. Scotland was one goal down for most of the match and seconds from being eliminated, but last desperate attempt in regulation time ended with equalizer-header, scored by Scottish goalkeeper Jim Leighton after corner kick. After goalless extra time penalty shoot-out was needed to decide winner. Scotland converted all penalties and won penalty shoot-out 5-4. 4 Years after first advance from group stage Scotland advanced for the first time to quarter-finals.
First half of match between Brazil and Netherlands ended with 1-1 draw-Koeman responded for Careca's goal. Brazil took lead again thanks to goal scored from free kick by Branco and advanced to quarter-final.
First match of knockout stage, between Argentina and Czechoslovakia, ended with 1-0 victory of defending champions after goal scored near end of first half by defender Juan Simon, for whom it was first and only goal scored for national team.
Second match played on the same day between Scotland and Mexico happened to be more thrilling. Scotland was one goal down for most of the match and seconds from being eliminated, but last desperate attempt in regulation time ended with equalizer-header, scored by Scottish goalkeeper Jim Leighton after corner kick. After goalless extra time penalty shoot-out was needed to decide winner. Scotland converted all penalties and won penalty shoot-out 5-4. 4 Years after first advance from group stage Scotland advanced for the first time to quarter-finals.
First half of match between Brazil and Netherlands ended with 1-1 draw-Koeman responded for Careca's goal. Brazil took lead again thanks to goal scored from free kick by Branco and advanced to quarter-final.
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Round of 16, part 2
At San Siro Belgium defeated Uruguay 2-1. Uruguayans responded for goals scored by Scifo and Degryse with just one goal scored by substitute Sosa.
Next day in Genoa Cameroon defeated Ireland 1-0 after extra time and for the first time African team advanced to top 8 of World Cup.
Italy took 2-0 lead before end of first half after two terrible mistakes of Polish defense. Thanks to substitutes Poland's performance improved in second half, but that has not prevented Italians from scoring third goal. Consolation goal for Poland scored by Jan Urban was first goal conceded by Italy at the tournament.
After Salinas scored for Spain few minutes before end of regulation time it seemed, that finalists of previous tournament are about to be eliminated, but Voller responded to Salinas' goal after just 3 minutes and added another at the very beginning of extra time. Salinas had chance to equalize score, but ball after his powerful shot was stopped by incredible intervention of Bodo Illgner and it was West German team, that advanced to quarter-final.
France and England met at World Cup for 4th time in 4 years in rematch of third place play-off of previous tournament. France had better occassions to score during regulation time, hitting woodwork twice, but it was Lineker's goal scored during extra time, which decided fate of that rivalization and brought England to quarter-finals [1]
[1] Thus slowly England is becoming for France what Germany is for England or Italy is for Germany.
Next day in Genoa Cameroon defeated Ireland 1-0 after extra time and for the first time African team advanced to top 8 of World Cup.
Italy took 2-0 lead before end of first half after two terrible mistakes of Polish defense. Thanks to substitutes Poland's performance improved in second half, but that has not prevented Italians from scoring third goal. Consolation goal for Poland scored by Jan Urban was first goal conceded by Italy at the tournament.
After Salinas scored for Spain few minutes before end of regulation time it seemed, that finalists of previous tournament are about to be eliminated, but Voller responded to Salinas' goal after just 3 minutes and added another at the very beginning of extra time. Salinas had chance to equalize score, but ball after his powerful shot was stopped by incredible intervention of Bodo Illgner and it was West German team, that advanced to quarter-final.
France and England met at World Cup for 4th time in 4 years in rematch of third place play-off of previous tournament. France had better occassions to score during regulation time, hitting woodwork twice, but it was Lineker's goal scored during extra time, which decided fate of that rivalization and brought England to quarter-finals [1]
[1] Thus slowly England is becoming for France what Germany is for England or Italy is for Germany.
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So we have such pairs in uarter-finals:
Brazil vs West Germany
Cameroon vs Italy
Scotland vs Belgium
Argentina vs England
Brazil vs West Germany
Cameroon vs Italy
Scotland vs Belgium
Argentina vs England
Quarter-finals
In first quarter-final match two football powerhouses-Brazil and West Germany-for the first time faced each other at World Cup. Match between these two giants was dominated by negative tactics and few scoring opportunites were created by both sides, but situation changed, when Germans finally found the way to Brazilian goal in 73 minute. As time passed Brazil had to invest more and more into offensive, giving Germans more chances for counter-attacks. One of these counter-attacks ended with second goal for West Germany, scored by Klinsmann in 84 minute. Brazil failed to respond and for third time in row was eliminated before reaching top 4 of the tournament.
Italians well remembered humiliation in Vigo and hoped for revenge for 1982 disaster, but it was Cameroon that took lead first and the same Roger Milla, who send Italy home after first round in 1982, scored goal for Cameroon. Italians feared another compromitation and became nervous, committing more and more mistakes. Milla could even double the lead-he hit crossbar. But thanks to Schillaci, who kept cool head and scored two goals in 3 minutes, Italians avoided repeat of their Spanish failure.
Scotland-Belgium was only quarter-final match featuring two teams, that never reached semi-final before. After tense match Belgium eventually won 2-1 and secured at least 4th place at the tournament. All thre goals in that match were scored from penalties.
Argentina-England was another tense match, with additional political conflict in the background. Argentina opened score very early-Canigga scored just 6 minute after first whistle. England responded just 3 minutes later with Platt's goal. But that were also the last goals seen in that match, with defensive tactics dominating remaining time, and penalty shoot-out was needed to decide who'd face Belgium in next round. Thanks to incredible saves of Goycochea Argentinians won 3-2. Argentina was victorious, but also weakened before next match due to injuries and suspensions [1].
[1] So Argentina-England football rivalry finally started.
It would not be one sided like England-France and occassion for revenge would come soon...
Italians well remembered humiliation in Vigo and hoped for revenge for 1982 disaster, but it was Cameroon that took lead first and the same Roger Milla, who send Italy home after first round in 1982, scored goal for Cameroon. Italians feared another compromitation and became nervous, committing more and more mistakes. Milla could even double the lead-he hit crossbar. But thanks to Schillaci, who kept cool head and scored two goals in 3 minutes, Italians avoided repeat of their Spanish failure.
Scotland-Belgium was only quarter-final match featuring two teams, that never reached semi-final before. After tense match Belgium eventually won 2-1 and secured at least 4th place at the tournament. All thre goals in that match were scored from penalties.
Argentina-England was another tense match, with additional political conflict in the background. Argentina opened score very early-Canigga scored just 6 minute after first whistle. England responded just 3 minutes later with Platt's goal. But that were also the last goals seen in that match, with defensive tactics dominating remaining time, and penalty shoot-out was needed to decide who'd face Belgium in next round. Thanks to incredible saves of Goycochea Argentinians won 3-2. Argentina was victorious, but also weakened before next match due to injuries and suspensions [1].
[1] So Argentina-England football rivalry finally started.
It would not be one sided like England-France and occassion for revenge would come soon...
Don't worry @QTXAdsy Scotland is out, but that generation of Scottish players would be remembered as the most successfull one, and quarter-final of world cup would not be even their greatest achievement.
Little Euro spin-off:
Little Euro spin-off:
Semi-final: West Germany-Italy
West Germany never defeated Italy at big tournament, spectators at Stadio San Paolo in Naples hoped, that 3 July 1990 would bring another Italian victory. Pressure to win the title was massive, Italy waited for it 52 years, but Germans, after two lost finals, have appetite for title too and have not came to Italy to clear path to the final for the host nation. Luck happened to be on Italian side, although referee helped that luck a bit-West Germany was denied penalty after foul on Rudi Völler. After 90 goalless (but with several chances for both teams) minutes Roberto Baggio, who came as substitute, gave lead to Italy. Desperate Germans put everything into attack, but instead of scoring equalizer they conceded second goal, scored by another substitute-Aldo Serena. After 20 years Italy was back in the final [1]
[1] That is almost 2006 semi-final 16 years earlier, minus extra time.
[1] That is almost 2006 semi-final 16 years earlier, minus extra time.