Land of Flatwater: Protect and Survive Middle America
- Thread starter Chipperback
- Start date
You have questions, I have answers + a Land of Flatwater "Mini-Update"
Actually, all of Nebraska's National Weather Service/NOAA forecast offices are intact and staffed.
The three main ones are in Valley, Nebraska...10 miles Northeast of Fremont. Hastings, Nebraska near the Hastings airport...and in North Platte.
With no federal authority contacted yet, all three areas continue to keep atmospheric data as part of plan GOLDENROD.
GAB-1955 gets the bottle of tangy Nebraska-made Dorothy Lynch Dressing for today's answer.
There's are tons of ham operators and CBs across the state. Folks like Beechcraft Bob...and another group of folk we haven't heard from in a spell but we will.
There are survivors in Colorado, Wyoming and in Western Nebraska. But they are sifting between some of the hardest hit areas in the country.
Plus, a couple of hours before Turner, Irving and Mike nabbed their collar, Civil Air Patrol Jack Maitland and his Connie flew overhead....flanked by a group of CAP planes and a couple of Air National Guard planes...
They were headed for what is called Panhandle Exclusion Zone.
The Connie and the staff of what is now officially known as the Nebraska Airborne Atmospheric Command. are picking up a lot of signs of the coming snow storm. Especially the cold snap that is undercutting the otherwise early spring tease we've been getting on and off since before the attacks.
But there is something else as well.
Aboard Nebraska Airborne Atmospheric Command near Alliance, Nebraska 3:45pm Mountain Standard Time -- Thursday March 8, 1984
"The barometric numbers and the temperature numbers are all consistent with a storm system," the researcher said.
"That is what we're here to check out, right?" Captain Maitland asked.
"There's more, sir," the researcher answered. Her worry growing in the cadence of her voice.
"I'm glad we got our NBC suits on when we picked up the North Platte people," she said. "The rads are higher. The North Platte guys noticed. But this isn't what I expected."
"What's the worry?" one of the weathermen asked. "The storm system is going over bombed out areas and we have winds..It's going to carry fallout."
"This is different," The researcher answered. "We're in the earliest tentacle of the storm now, and look at how rads are spiking. This isn't residual radiation...This storm has passed by areas of recent initiations."
Captain Maitland overhead the talk in the cockpit radio. "Ma'am," he said. "Are saying that there's been more of these damn bombs used...on us?"
The researcher paused...she was frightened by the answer.. "I pray there hasn't been....but the numbers are saying different, sir."
to be continued.
This mini-update has been brought to you by Dana's Garage and Performance Parts in Leigh. When you wanna go fast, and go fast now. Just ask for Dana.
Actually, all of Nebraska's National Weather Service/NOAA forecast offices are intact and staffed.
The three main ones are in Valley, Nebraska...10 miles Northeast of Fremont. Hastings, Nebraska near the Hastings airport...and in North Platte.
With no federal authority contacted yet, all three areas continue to keep atmospheric data as part of plan GOLDENROD.
GAB-1955 gets the bottle of tangy Nebraska-made Dorothy Lynch Dressing for today's answer.
There's are tons of ham operators and CBs across the state. Folks like Beechcraft Bob...and another group of folk we haven't heard from in a spell but we will.
There are survivors in Colorado, Wyoming and in Western Nebraska. But they are sifting between some of the hardest hit areas in the country.
Plus, a couple of hours before Turner, Irving and Mike nabbed their collar, Civil Air Patrol Jack Maitland and his Connie flew overhead....flanked by a group of CAP planes and a couple of Air National Guard planes...
They were headed for what is called Panhandle Exclusion Zone.
The Connie and the staff of what is now officially known as the Nebraska Airborne Atmospheric Command. are picking up a lot of signs of the coming snow storm. Especially the cold snap that is undercutting the otherwise early spring tease we've been getting on and off since before the attacks.
But there is something else as well.
Aboard Nebraska Airborne Atmospheric Command near Alliance, Nebraska 3:45pm Mountain Standard Time -- Thursday March 8, 1984
"The barometric numbers and the temperature numbers are all consistent with a storm system," the researcher said.
"That is what we're here to check out, right?" Captain Maitland asked.
"There's more, sir," the researcher answered. Her worry growing in the cadence of her voice.
"I'm glad we got our NBC suits on when we picked up the North Platte people," she said. "The rads are higher. The North Platte guys noticed. But this isn't what I expected."
"What's the worry?" one of the weathermen asked. "The storm system is going over bombed out areas and we have winds..It's going to carry fallout."
"This is different," The researcher answered. "We're in the earliest tentacle of the storm now, and look at how rads are spiking. This isn't residual radiation...This storm has passed by areas of recent initiations."
Captain Maitland overhead the talk in the cockpit radio. "Ma'am," he said. "Are saying that there's been more of these damn bombs used...on us?"
The researcher paused...she was frightened by the answer.. "I pray there hasn't been....but the numbers are saying different, sir."
to be continued.
This mini-update has been brought to you by Dana's Garage and Performance Parts in Leigh. When you wanna go fast, and go fast now. Just ask for Dana.
Its actually plausible that some residual soviet force would still hit targets,maybe a few subs with SLBM on board now that the US Navy is largely gone, whatever is left on both sides would have a free hand.Although exactly what targets would be hit is hard to tell, without intel you either have to assume the target is still there or randomly hit whatever you want.
Chipperback - magnificent thread!
I wonder if that's because some remnant Soviet SSBN's still swimming around in the Arctic north of Alaska or Canada with a few nukes to spare? Or on a less likely note, some enraged crew of a Soviet Backfire's managed to hide out somewhere in God knows where and is now flying around looking for something to nuke?
I actually remember years ago seeing in a book, The Cold and The Dark by Paul R. Erlich and Carl Sagan, an image showing Earth still getting bombarded in a few places by nukes well after the main exchange's over and the nuclear winter soot has already covered the Northern Hemisphere. The caption next to the image stated along the lines of "there may be some subs around whose personnel may still launch some unused warheads, unaware that the ICBM exchange is already long over". Or something like that, anyway.
That to me is a lot more plausible than the now-discredited worst-case nuclear winter scenario envisaged by Carl Sagan.
Chipperback said:
I wonder if that's because some remnant Soviet SSBN's still swimming around in the Arctic north of Alaska or Canada with a few nukes to spare? Or on a less likely note, some enraged crew of a Soviet Backfire's managed to hide out somewhere in God knows where and is now flying around looking for something to nuke?
I actually remember years ago seeing in a book, The Cold and The Dark by Paul R. Erlich and Carl Sagan, an image showing Earth still getting bombarded in a few places by nukes well after the main exchange's over and the nuclear winter soot has already covered the Northern Hemisphere. The caption next to the image stated along the lines of "there may be some subs around whose personnel may still launch some unused warheads, unaware that the ICBM exchange is already long over". Or something like that, anyway.
That to me is a lot more plausible than the now-discredited worst-case nuclear winter scenario envisaged by Carl Sagan.
There's a book called The Day After World War III; GDW used it when they were doing the Twilight: 2000 role-playing game. When the subject of how protracted a nuclear war might be, there was no consensus, according to the book. Estimates ranged up to 180 days. Hence, the bomber recovery teams, continuity of government plans, and so on.
One other thing: early Soviet planning for the Typhoon-class boomers had two of the missile tubes having PHOTOINT satellites loaded onto the missiles instead of warheads. The Typhoons were supposed to be at sea for a year or more after an exchange, and unless ordered to cease hostilities, they would launch the satellites to look for targets that were not hit in the initial exchanges, and upon receiving target coordinates, would fire. That was canned, and all twenty tubes were loaded with SS-N-20s in full war shot configuration.
You also have ARES, Amateur Radio Emergency Service, and RACES, Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Service active as well. BTW, the Civil Air patrol also works closely with amateur radio as well.
All out strike versus counterforce strike
This is a spectacular timeline that i love reading on a weekly basis!
I have a question regarding the nuclear exchange depicted in P&S. I was under the impression that the belief at the time (based on books i have read) was that a likely first strike with strategic weapons (which the Soviets do in P&S) would be a counterforce strike. It appears in P&S it is simply an all out strike making no distinction between millitary and cities. Based on the groups knowledge of the timeframe would the Soviets have gone all out with a first strike or more likely attempted a counterforce strike with the goal of holding U.S. cities hostage?
This is a spectacular timeline that i love reading on a weekly basis!
I have a question regarding the nuclear exchange depicted in P&S. I was under the impression that the belief at the time (based on books i have read) was that a likely first strike with strategic weapons (which the Soviets do in P&S) would be a counterforce strike. It appears in P&S it is simply an all out strike making no distinction between millitary and cities. Based on the groups knowledge of the timeframe would the Soviets have gone all out with a first strike or more likely attempted a counterforce strike with the goal of holding U.S. cities hostage?
The first strike would be counterforce in all likelihood. Try and catch the Minutemen and Titan-IIs in the silos, and as many bombers on the ground as possible. The second round would be countervalue. And there would be, in this situation, a launch-on-warning recommendation from CINC-SAC to the President. The "use 'em or lose 'em" option....Post-exchange targets might just be what is in whatever launch platform had in their orders. A sub might have in their execute package orders not to launch in the first exchanges, but fire at a certain time and date afterwards (i.e. 2000 Moscow Time on Exchange plus 3, say).
This thread may contain the answers/information you seek
Was it a Given That a Soviet/NATO Conflict in Europe Would go Nuclear?
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=230205&highlight=III
One can hope, but there's missile boats, in all probability, that have just now opened their orders and have instructions to launch x number of missiles at certain targets. Or bombers have returned to recovery fields, been turned around, and have been sent out again.
Even though most of these targets would have been destroyed in all likelihood. Although, TBH, I think that they'd either not launch at targets which were known to have been destroyed or they'd find new cities to blow up. I'd be a little concerned if I were Chinese or Indian right about now.........
Of course you have to assume even the remote possibility of surviving nuclear forces hitting randomly whatever they find.Its true there are orders,training,preparations and whatever but no one has really tried a nuclear war and no one knows exactly what surviving forces would do.A sub commander in the Pacific would know pretty well what has happened in a broad sense.With their families gone and their countries destroyed some might say we'll hit whatever we find of use 'eye for an eye', in the general sense in really doesn't matter anymore if you follow orders or not.Whether some parts of the US or the USSR are still in one piece it counts for little at the end of the day.Its not like you can be tried by a Court Martial for insubordination for attacking targets that where not of any value.Some nuclear forces might be randomly hitting whatever they find not caring about any plan.There is always a difference between planning and training for war and the real thing especially a war which has never happened and existing doctrines have never been tested in a realistic scenario.
I can't prove this, but there were persistent rumors that the US planned to have certain nuclear forces (most likely missile subs but possibly some a/c sent to remote areas) that were programmed not to be used until way later in a conflict, as an ace in the hole or final bargaining chip in war termination. Most likely the USSR had similar. Even the relatively noisy Russian subs of this time could get lost especially if they went to remote ocean areas, well away from missile range of the USA, to hang out - in places like that US SOSUS surveillance did not exist, and you would not see ASW forces operating. For US missile boats, this would be much easier.