Half of it does.
The word "sunburn" appears only twice in The Grapple. The second mention isn't even in a white person's POV.
TL-191: Filling the Gaps
- Thread starter Craigo
- Start date
Half of it does.
The word "sunburn" appears only twice in The Grapple. The second mention isn't even in a white person's POV.
bguy
Donor
As if Sam Carsten would let a little thing like it being nighttime stop him from getting sunburned.
Also, I can't wait for the next update
Agreed.
Question:
What book was the chapter with Dr. O'Doull from?
The chapter I'm talking about is the one where some guy got shot in the head, but turned out to be fine afterwards. The entire thing was about O'Doull and his assistant being shocked about the guy being shot in the head and sitting upright talking to them.
And if you guys remember the book, could you please tell me if it's more twoards the beginning or the end of that book?
What book was the chapter with Dr. O'Doull from?
The chapter I'm talking about is the one where some guy got shot in the head, but turned out to be fine afterwards. The entire thing was about O'Doull and his assistant being shocked about the guy being shot in the head and sitting upright talking to them.
And if you guys remember the book, could you please tell me if it's more twoards the beginning or the end of that book?
Fugitive Slave Treaty of 1869
The root of the matter goes back to 1865, the first full term of Abraham Lincoln's chosen Chief Justice, Edward Bates. A conservative Missourian and onetime rival of the first Republican president, Bates was hardly ahead of his time in terms of race relations. Democrats had mostly acquiesced in his lame-duck appointment late the year before, as his positions were generally so far from those of the radical Republicans they despised.
But Bates shocked them when he decided Shuster v. Endicott, 69 US 1. A Kentucky slave by name of Paul Shuster had escaped from his owner on an 1863 business trip to Cincinatti, and had made his across the North to Boston. Endicott had found him the next year, but the local authorities were unsympathetic to his attempts to reclaim his property. Endicott had sued in US federal court. He lost in district court, but won on appeal when the judge applied Dred Scott v. Sanford, arguing that the Fifth Amendment barred the Commonwealth of Massachusetts from depriving anyone, even a foreign national, of his property without due process of law.
The Supreme Court saw it differently. In a 6-3 opinion authored by Bates, with all but one of Lincoln's appointees voting with the majority, the Court found that Dred Scott was inapplicable, because that case involved the powers of the Federal government to free slaves held in the territories, not the powers of states within their own borders. Noting that the Fifth Amendment did not apply to the states, Bates held that Massachusetts could not be forced to recognize human beings as property. (In a sidenote, he impugned Chief Justice Taney's reading of the territorial clause in Dred Scott, opining that the Federal government could indeed outlaw slavery in the territories.)
The Confederate government was outraged, and Confederate Minister R.M.T. Hunter delivered a strong note to US Secretary of State John Adams Dix. The case was especially shocking as Hunter and US Minister Thomas Hendricks had just signed a treaty of friendship, which had been easily ratified in both Senates. There was angry talk of retaliation, perhaps an embargo, but in the end cooler heads prevailed.
But they never forgot the slight, and the Beauregard administrationc continued to press for an adjustment. He could not have hoped for a better partner in Thomas Bayard Jr., 18th President of the United States. Bayard's first act upon taking office was to instruct the State Department to seek a new treaty with the Confederacy "to ameliorate the evils which currently plague our common border."
The result, negotiated by Secretaries of State Clement Vallandigham and John C. Breckinridge, was what is now popularly known as the Fugitive Slave Treaty. It stated that any Confederate citizen wishing to enter the United States for the avowed purpose of reclaiming runaway slaves could do so. If the Marshal suspected that the avowment was false, he could have him brought before the federal court, where the Confederate would enter a sworn affidavit. Once the slave was found, the Marshal was required to assist the owner in his capture and transportation. Under the Supremacy Clause, state and local authorities could not interfere.
Additionally, any Confederate national who wished to operate as a slave-catcher within the United States could do so by registering with the State Department and paying the annual fee. Once so registered, he could reside permanently within the United States, and upon his affidavit any Negro accused of being a runaway slave could be captured and taken to the United States. (This was done to relieve Southerners of the expense of traveling to the North.)
In exchange, the Confederacy granted several trade concessions to the US, and agreed to assume remaining claims related to the war held by Confederate citizens against US citizens, states, or the Federal government.
The treaty provoked a firestorm in the Senate, which had to ratify it by two-thirds. As the Democrats currently held only 30 of 50 Senators, a handful of Republicans needed to abstain or vote in favor. Senator Frank Blair of Missouri voted in favor, as did both of West Virginia's Senators, and the single Republican from the Far West. Together with a Republican absence, the treaty was ratified by a vote of 34 to 15, more than enough to see it to through. Every Democrat voted in favor.
The Treaty went into effect on January 1, 1870, and the first slave-catchers were registered the next day.
The root of the matter goes back to 1865, the first full term of Abraham Lincoln's chosen Chief Justice, Edward Bates. A conservative Missourian and onetime rival of the first Republican president, Bates was hardly ahead of his time in terms of race relations. Democrats had mostly acquiesced in his lame-duck appointment late the year before, as his positions were generally so far from those of the radical Republicans they despised.
But Bates shocked them when he decided Shuster v. Endicott, 69 US 1. A Kentucky slave by name of Paul Shuster had escaped from his owner on an 1863 business trip to Cincinatti, and had made his across the North to Boston. Endicott had found him the next year, but the local authorities were unsympathetic to his attempts to reclaim his property. Endicott had sued in US federal court. He lost in district court, but won on appeal when the judge applied Dred Scott v. Sanford, arguing that the Fifth Amendment barred the Commonwealth of Massachusetts from depriving anyone, even a foreign national, of his property without due process of law.
The Supreme Court saw it differently. In a 6-3 opinion authored by Bates, with all but one of Lincoln's appointees voting with the majority, the Court found that Dred Scott was inapplicable, because that case involved the powers of the Federal government to free slaves held in the territories, not the powers of states within their own borders. Noting that the Fifth Amendment did not apply to the states, Bates held that Massachusetts could not be forced to recognize human beings as property. (In a sidenote, he impugned Chief Justice Taney's reading of the territorial clause in Dred Scott, opining that the Federal government could indeed outlaw slavery in the territories.)
The Confederate government was outraged, and Confederate Minister R.M.T. Hunter delivered a strong note to US Secretary of State John Adams Dix. The case was especially shocking as Hunter and US Minister Thomas Hendricks had just signed a treaty of friendship, which had been easily ratified in both Senates. There was angry talk of retaliation, perhaps an embargo, but in the end cooler heads prevailed.
But they never forgot the slight, and the Beauregard administrationc continued to press for an adjustment. He could not have hoped for a better partner in Thomas Bayard Jr., 18th President of the United States. Bayard's first act upon taking office was to instruct the State Department to seek a new treaty with the Confederacy "to ameliorate the evils which currently plague our common border."
The result, negotiated by Secretaries of State Clement Vallandigham and John C. Breckinridge, was what is now popularly known as the Fugitive Slave Treaty. It stated that any Confederate citizen wishing to enter the United States for the avowed purpose of reclaiming runaway slaves could do so. If the Marshal suspected that the avowment was false, he could have him brought before the federal court, where the Confederate would enter a sworn affidavit. Once the slave was found, the Marshal was required to assist the owner in his capture and transportation. Under the Supremacy Clause, state and local authorities could not interfere.
Additionally, any Confederate national who wished to operate as a slave-catcher within the United States could do so by registering with the State Department and paying the annual fee. Once so registered, he could reside permanently within the United States, and upon his affidavit any Negro accused of being a runaway slave could be captured and taken to the United States. (This was done to relieve Southerners of the expense of traveling to the North.)
In exchange, the Confederacy granted several trade concessions to the US, and agreed to assume remaining claims related to the war held by Confederate citizens against US citizens, states, or the Federal government.
The treaty provoked a firestorm in the Senate, which had to ratify it by two-thirds. As the Democrats currently held only 30 of 50 Senators, a handful of Republicans needed to abstain or vote in favor. Senator Frank Blair of Missouri voted in favor, as did both of West Virginia's Senators, and the single Republican from the Far West. Together with a Republican absence, the treaty was ratified by a vote of 34 to 15, more than enough to see it to through. Every Democrat voted in favor.
The Treaty went into effect on January 1, 1870, and the first slave-catchers were registered the next day.
Damn. Nice update, but damn that was a nasty deal Bayard cut
The official purpose was to reduce the Federal debt by having the Confederates assume the costs incurred to the US by the treaty that officially ended the War of Secession. The US has a war debt, lost revenue, and some reparations to pay off.
Confederate States presidential election, 1873
The Confederate States of the 1860s and 1870s lacked political parties. Almost all Southern politicians of the era touted this as a virtue and a testament to the essential unity of the nation. In reality, the lack of organized political machinery often led to messy results.
The election for the third President is a case in point. There was no shortage of contenders; one authority has listed the following as serious candidates:
General-in-Chief Braxton Bragg, LA
Senator Richard Taylor, LA
Senator John Reagan, TX
General Joseph Johnston, GA
Senator Joseph Brown, GA
Governor Zebulon Vance, NC
Speaker James Chesnut, SC
Secretary of State John Breckinridge, KY
Attorney General Albert Gallatin Brown, MS
(The lack of a serious candidate from Virginia has been well noted by scholars, Vice President Seddon having chosen to retire to private life at the end of his term. Despite being the largest and richest Confederate state, the Old Dominion still took a backseat politically.)
As there were no political parties, there no national conventions, either. But 10 of 12 states did hold nominating conventions. (The Indian Territory, despite lacking electoral votes, held a convention of delegates from the Five Civilized Tribes, won by William P. Ross. Of the list above, only John Reagan's name was also put into nomination.)
These did much to winnow the field, especially where the contenders shared a home state. Joe Brown knocked out Joe Johnston in Georgia, while Braxton Bragg earned Louisiana's imprimatur over Richard Taylor. In the end, the only candidates to make the ballot in all twelve states were Breckinridge, Vance, Brown, Chesnut, and Brown.
Vance and Brown, while officially of no party like every other major politico, were well known as the core of the "opposition" in the states to the Davis and Beauregard administrations. They appealed largely to their own states and the Appalachian region in Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, and Virginia.
Bragg, the hero who had returned Kentucky to its rightful flag (though some darkly noted that he had been pressed by Buell until the sudden appearance of Kirby Smith), was hardly loved, even by his former soldiers. But he had one ace in the hole - founding father Jefferson Davis, who backed his old firned strongly. Davis wished to keep the martial traditions of the Confederacy strong, and of the field, only Bragg and Johnston had been to West Point, and the animosity between Davis and Johnston had become legendary at this point.
Chesnut had also served in the War of Secession as a citizen-soldier, and had been attached to Robert Lee's staff in 1863 before being elected to Congress later that year. He rose steadily in that body, becoming Speaker after Thomas Bocock entered the Beauregard cabinet.
John Breckinridge's biggest handicap was that he was a johnny-come-lately to the Confederacy, remaining in the US Senate until he was expelled in December 1861. Breckinridge rationalized it by claiming loyalty to his state first, and the southern Confederacy second, as Kentucky had yet to secede. He had served in the Confederate army also before taking a seat in the Senate, and then served as Beauregard's first Secretary of State.
The race that followed was the most chaotic the CSA or USA had ever seen, outstripping Lincoln's victory in the strange contest of 1860:
The candidates mostly split their sections: Breckinridge took the upper South, Chesnut the lower South, and Bragg won the West. Vance and Brown won their home states, and tended to split the opposition vote in the Appalachian counties of other states.
As no candidate won a majority of electoral votes, the election was thrown into the House of Representatives, where the states would choose from the top three contenders, using the unit rule. This gave Chesnut two major advantages: He had won a plurality of states, and he was liked and respected in the House, which he had run with a firm but fair hand for several terms. Even in states that did not support him on the first ballot, he tended to run second.
His selection of a Virginian as his running mate had proven prescient as well, as that state abandoned Breckinridge after one vote to join Chesnut. Breckinridge thereby notified his backers that he was withdrawing, and Ketucky and Tennessee followed, putting James Chesnut, Jr. of South Carolina over the top, making him the third Confederate President. The Senate soon followed, and selected John Goode of Virginia for Vice President. As a show of unity, both votes were unanimous on the final ballot, lest the United States think the Confederacy had become divided.
The Confederate States of the 1860s and 1870s lacked political parties. Almost all Southern politicians of the era touted this as a virtue and a testament to the essential unity of the nation. In reality, the lack of organized political machinery often led to messy results.
The election for the third President is a case in point. There was no shortage of contenders; one authority has listed the following as serious candidates:
General-in-Chief Braxton Bragg, LA
Senator Richard Taylor, LA
Senator John Reagan, TX
General Joseph Johnston, GA
Senator Joseph Brown, GA
Governor Zebulon Vance, NC
Speaker James Chesnut, SC
Secretary of State John Breckinridge, KY
Attorney General Albert Gallatin Brown, MS
(The lack of a serious candidate from Virginia has been well noted by scholars, Vice President Seddon having chosen to retire to private life at the end of his term. Despite being the largest and richest Confederate state, the Old Dominion still took a backseat politically.)
As there were no political parties, there no national conventions, either. But 10 of 12 states did hold nominating conventions. (The Indian Territory, despite lacking electoral votes, held a convention of delegates from the Five Civilized Tribes, won by William P. Ross. Of the list above, only John Reagan's name was also put into nomination.)
These did much to winnow the field, especially where the contenders shared a home state. Joe Brown knocked out Joe Johnston in Georgia, while Braxton Bragg earned Louisiana's imprimatur over Richard Taylor. In the end, the only candidates to make the ballot in all twelve states were Breckinridge, Vance, Brown, Chesnut, and Brown.
Vance and Brown, while officially of no party like every other major politico, were well known as the core of the "opposition" in the states to the Davis and Beauregard administrations. They appealed largely to their own states and the Appalachian region in Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, and Virginia.
Bragg, the hero who had returned Kentucky to its rightful flag (though some darkly noted that he had been pressed by Buell until the sudden appearance of Kirby Smith), was hardly loved, even by his former soldiers. But he had one ace in the hole - founding father Jefferson Davis, who backed his old firned strongly. Davis wished to keep the martial traditions of the Confederacy strong, and of the field, only Bragg and Johnston had been to West Point, and the animosity between Davis and Johnston had become legendary at this point.
Chesnut had also served in the War of Secession as a citizen-soldier, and had been attached to Robert Lee's staff in 1863 before being elected to Congress later that year. He rose steadily in that body, becoming Speaker after Thomas Bocock entered the Beauregard cabinet.
John Breckinridge's biggest handicap was that he was a johnny-come-lately to the Confederacy, remaining in the US Senate until he was expelled in December 1861. Breckinridge rationalized it by claiming loyalty to his state first, and the southern Confederacy second, as Kentucky had yet to secede. He had served in the Confederate army also before taking a seat in the Senate, and then served as Beauregard's first Secretary of State.
The race that followed was the most chaotic the CSA or USA had ever seen, outstripping Lincoln's victory in the strange contest of 1860:
The candidates mostly split their sections: Breckinridge took the upper South, Chesnut the lower South, and Bragg won the West. Vance and Brown won their home states, and tended to split the opposition vote in the Appalachian counties of other states.
As no candidate won a majority of electoral votes, the election was thrown into the House of Representatives, where the states would choose from the top three contenders, using the unit rule. This gave Chesnut two major advantages: He had won a plurality of states, and he was liked and respected in the House, which he had run with a firm but fair hand for several terms. Even in states that did not support him on the first ballot, he tended to run second.
His selection of a Virginian as his running mate had proven prescient as well, as that state abandoned Breckinridge after one vote to join Chesnut. Breckinridge thereby notified his backers that he was withdrawing, and Ketucky and Tennessee followed, putting James Chesnut, Jr. of South Carolina over the top, making him the third Confederate President. The Senate soon followed, and selected John Goode of Virginia for Vice President. As a show of unity, both votes were unanimous on the final ballot, lest the United States think the Confederacy had become divided.
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Very interesting developments in the South.
Certainly didn't see Chesnut coming, but you've set it up as excellently and plausibly as always. Keep it up, Craigo
Love Bragg's running-mate, by the way
Way back when, Bragg and Gist were the two Presidents I originally had that commenters objected to mostly strongly. So, what the hell, let's throw them together.
I'm going to flesh this one out later, I just had enough time to post the main narrative.
Oh, and I made a mistake with the 1867 electoral votes - forgot to add the Senators, of all things. There should have been 123 in the Conf. electoral college, not 99.
Impressive. I have to say, I'm a little disappointed to see Breckinridge lose, but......Anyway, I have two requests. Turtledove did a great job writing about the Great War, but besides Custer, Pershing, and J.E.B. Stuart Jr., he never really mentioned any other top military leaders. Who led the Army of Northern Virginia, the Army of Kentucky, the Western fronts, and the Canadian fronts? Never mentioned. And I'm pretty interested in what the casualties in the Second Mexican War would have been. The only mention of this is during Mark Twain's point of view, when he says that after capturing only a quarter of a mile bridgehead into Kentucky towards Louisville, 17,409 U.S. soldiers had been killed or mutilated. And thats just in the first few weeks of the war. And Confederate casualties were never mentioned. But I think in American Front someone compares casualties during the first part of the Great War to the War of Secession, so I think its pretty safe to inference that the Second Mexican War didn't kill as many people as the War of Secession did.
Just had another look at the Confederate Presidential election map, and Charles Burton Mitchel, Vance's Vice Presidential candidate, died in 1864, nine years before the election
Just had another look at the Confederate Presidential election map, and Charles Burton Mitchel, Vance's Vice Presidential candidate, died in 1864, nine years before the election
So he did. Damn, I really wanted him in there. When I flesh it out, he'll be switched out.
I originally had Breckinridge winning the election, but he would have died during his term, and you guys convinced me that no Confederate president had died in office.
Breckinridge-Johnson was a detail I liked too. I wanted to show that Confederate politics were still in flux (Breckinridge, the most proslavery, anti-Yankee candidate in 1860, is actually a moderate in 1873.)
Impressive. I have to say, I'm a little disappointed to see Breckinridge lose, but......Anyway, I have two requests. Turtledove did a great job writing about the Great War, but besides Custer, Pershing, and J.E.B. Stuart Jr., he never really mentioned any other top military leaders. Who led the Army of Northern Virginia, the Army of Kentucky, the Western fronts, and the Canadian fronts? Never mentioned. And I'm pretty interested in what the casualties in the Second Mexican War would have been. The only mention of this is during Mark Twain's point of view, when he says that after capturing only a quarter of a mile bridgehead into Kentucky towards Louisville, 17,409 U.S. soldiers had been killed or mutilated. And thats just in the first few weeks of the war. And Confederate casualties were never mentioned. But I think in American Front someone compares casualties during the first part of the Great War to the War of Secession, so I think its pretty safe to inference that the Second Mexican War didn't kill as many people as the War of Secession did.
Coincidence - I was just thinking of doing a list of army commanders from the GW.
United States Army commanders of the Great War
Chief of Staff
Charles Francis Adams Jr.
Leonard Wood
Deputy Chief of Staff
Enoch Crowder
James Wadsworth, Jr.
Inspector General
Nelson Miles
Hugh Johnson
First Army
George Armstrong Custer
Second Army
Ambrose Bierce
John Pershing
Third Army
Peyton March
Fourth Army
Hugh Scott
Hunter Liggett
Fifth Army
Frederick Funston
Leonard Wood
James Wadsworth Jr.
Seymour du Pont
Sixth Army
Hunter Liggett
John Hines
Seventh Army
Tasker Bliss
Eighth Army
Malin Craig
Ninth Army
John Jacob Astor IV
Tenth Army
Preston Gist Blair
Chief of Staff
Charles Francis Adams Jr.
Leonard Wood
Deputy Chief of Staff
Enoch Crowder
James Wadsworth, Jr.
Inspector General
Nelson Miles
Hugh Johnson
First Army
George Armstrong Custer
Second Army
Ambrose Bierce
John Pershing
Third Army
Peyton March
Fourth Army
Hugh Scott
Hunter Liggett
Fifth Army
Frederick Funston
Leonard Wood
James Wadsworth Jr.
Seymour du Pont
Sixth Army
Hunter Liggett
John Hines
Seventh Army
Tasker Bliss
Eighth Army
Malin Craig
Ninth Army
John Jacob Astor IV
Tenth Army
Preston Gist Blair
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