Don't make me bring out my Francowank you guys...
Hey, that's my TL...
p)And to prove it, here's a map of my tri-generational Greater Bourbon Empire (1715) from Vive la Francewank:
Map Thread VI
- Thread starter Ian the Admin
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Hey, that's my TL...
p)And to prove it, here's a map of my tri-generational Greater Bourbon Empire (1715) from Vive la Francewank:
While a sucess of the August Coup has been discussed often and still serves as a plot devise in many bad wargames, I want to look at another possibility: What if the coup never happend?
POD: Alarmed by the "A word to the people" manifest Gorbatschow cancels his trip to the Krim, moves loyal troops to Moscow, and holds an inoffical meeting with the hardliners. He convinces them, that any "adventure" on their behalf would only play into the hands of the separitsts and promises to act against "exceses" of the reforms.
The KGB is allowed to start an "campaign against crime and corruption" and half a year later Boris Jelzin is accussed of "severe missmanagement" and replaced as President of the RFSR by Iwan Silajew.
The new treaty is signed with a few ammendments to appease the hardliners. The "Union of SouvereignSoviet Republics" is born.
Economic reforms and privatisation happen, but much slower and a little more carefull than in OTL (more like China). Minning and Oil Industries are still completly state controlled.
Some unrest breaks out in the Caucasus. Finally Chasbulatow brokers an aggrement transforming several of the autonomous republics to full SSRs (some choose to call themselfs "Islamic Soviet Republic" instead). Lowlevel violence continues but it can be handled by local police.
Gorbatschow is unable to preserve the Warsaw Pact but with the help of the KGB manages to retain some influence on the Balkans.
He is almost ousted again, when he decides to recognize the independence of the breakaway republics
But his firm support for Serbia during the breakup of Yugoslavia saves him and assures his reelection. (Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia are motivated by the serbian threat to form a loose federation)
On a geopolitical scale the USSR is no longer as powerfull as it once was, but still more important than China and treated with a healthy respect by the Americans.
North Korea denounced Gorbatschow as an "Agent of Capitalism" (and plunged into and economic desaster, when the USSR cut its aid) and Vietnam is slowly drifting towards the west. But the other remaining socialist nations still follow Moscows lead (alltough Castro is grinding his teeth).
When America declared war on the Taliban, Bush was polite enough to ask the Russians first. They aggred, but demanded, that they were given controll over the North, were ethnic Tajics and Usbecs live, after the invasion.
Saddam is still in power, as he was able to play Russians and Americans against each other.
Bush settled for Somalia as a replacement target.
As both President Gorbatschow and the President of the Supprem Soviet Lukjanow are ill, there is a struggle, who will succed him.
Gorbatschows himself favours former Komsomol leader and current minister of economy Chodorkowski, while Lukanjow and the influnecial KGB director Putin favour prime minister Medwedew. The army leadership around marshals Lebed and Ruzkoi has recently suggested Vice-President Dudajew (mostly regarded as powerless token muslim) as compromise candidate.
POD: Alarmed by the "A word to the people" manifest Gorbatschow cancels his trip to the Krim, moves loyal troops to Moscow, and holds an inoffical meeting with the hardliners. He convinces them, that any "adventure" on their behalf would only play into the hands of the separitsts and promises to act against "exceses" of the reforms.
The KGB is allowed to start an "campaign against crime and corruption" and half a year later Boris Jelzin is accussed of "severe missmanagement" and replaced as President of the RFSR by Iwan Silajew.
The new treaty is signed with a few ammendments to appease the hardliners. The "Union of SouvereignSoviet Republics" is born.
Economic reforms and privatisation happen, but much slower and a little more carefull than in OTL (more like China). Minning and Oil Industries are still completly state controlled.
Some unrest breaks out in the Caucasus. Finally Chasbulatow brokers an aggrement transforming several of the autonomous republics to full SSRs (some choose to call themselfs "Islamic Soviet Republic" instead). Lowlevel violence continues but it can be handled by local police.
Gorbatschow is unable to preserve the Warsaw Pact but with the help of the KGB manages to retain some influence on the Balkans.
He is almost ousted again, when he decides to recognize the independence of the breakaway republics
But his firm support for Serbia during the breakup of Yugoslavia saves him and assures his reelection. (Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia are motivated by the serbian threat to form a loose federation)
On a geopolitical scale the USSR is no longer as powerfull as it once was, but still more important than China and treated with a healthy respect by the Americans.
North Korea denounced Gorbatschow as an "Agent of Capitalism" (and plunged into and economic desaster, when the USSR cut its aid) and Vietnam is slowly drifting towards the west. But the other remaining socialist nations still follow Moscows lead (alltough Castro is grinding his teeth).
When America declared war on the Taliban, Bush was polite enough to ask the Russians first. They aggred, but demanded, that they were given controll over the North, were ethnic Tajics and Usbecs live, after the invasion.
Saddam is still in power, as he was able to play Russians and Americans against each other.
Bush settled for Somalia as a replacement target.
As both President Gorbatschow and the President of the Supprem Soviet Lukjanow are ill, there is a struggle, who will succed him.
Gorbatschows himself favours former Komsomol leader and current minister of economy Chodorkowski, while Lukanjow and the influnecial KGB director Putin favour prime minister Medwedew. The army leadership around marshals Lebed and Ruzkoi has recently suggested Vice-President Dudajew (mostly regarded as powerless token muslim) as compromise candidate.
Awesome, I've been looking for some Chaos TL maps! What is the white area covering OTL Utah and Nevada? Native tribal lands?
This is my first map post It was originally just random map drawing in order to create Italowank and Russowank in the same map (and maybe learn something new in the art of map making). But during a drawing process I started to like this more and more. Unfortunately it's not really a wank.
It's 1910 now. POD here is more successful revolutions in 1848 in Germany and Italy.
Some interesting stuff:
It was originally just random map drawing in order to create Italowank and Russowank in the same map (and maybe learn something new in the art of map making). But during a drawing process I started to like this more and more. Unfortunately it's not really a wank. It's 1910 now. POD here is more successful revolutions in 1848 in Germany and Italy.
Some interesting stuff:
- Liberal Prussia and autocratic Russia are allies
- Japan didn't modernize as fast as it did in OTL
- China has been in a constant civil war over 10 years
- The American Civil War started earlier and was longer
- Mexico is controlled by few warlords which many are backed by Americans
- The Ottomans are more or less controlled by Brits
- Scandinavia is formed after the the Second Great Northern War
- Independent Acre!
- Russians don't like Brits who like Prussians who like Russians. French then don't like Austrians who like Ottomans who like French. And Ottomans are of course controlled by Brits who hate French. Japanese then…
Very cool indeed! But it looks like a bit of a David Vs Goliath situation for the revolutionaries...
Bruce
Something else inspired by the old Soc.history.what-if group (Google "at the Fascist Congress" 1964): a world in which Fascism of the Italian type did much, much better than OTL.
Due to some different events before and during WWI, Mussolini ends up with some different ideas on varied subjects such as race, religion and Futurism than his OTL version: he still ends up creating the Fascist party and making himself dictator, but find Hitler and his ideas rather less appealing than OTL, and by the mid 30's an ideological yelling (and in Musso's case, posing) match is going on between Italy and Germany. With Italy coming in on the allied side at a convenient point in WWII, and Mussolini himself dying at an even more convenient point, a clear seperation between Nazis and "proper" fascism becomes widely accepted.
After WWII, Italy creates its own little block with Spain and Portugal, and tries to expand its influence in South America and elsewhere, builds its own atom bomb, etc: after the French colonial wars go pear-shaped in the 50s and 60s, and the French military finds it has a model available, the Fascist Block suddenly starts looking rather muscular.
NATO splits, the Soviets rejoice, but are no more able than OTL to overcome their economic issues. Italy and France, having Muslim Problems, find some common ground with Israel (Musso has never had a problem with Jews as long as they were proper Fascists): the US, with an eye on the oil supply, distances itself from the Israelis.
The US effort to create a Grand Alliance of northern Europe, the Arabs, and the Chinese against the Red and the Black does yield some benefits, such as cheaper gas and a victory of sorts in Vietnam, but also almost leads to WWIII as efforts in brinkmanship and destablization in the Soviet block go haywire. The rump European Community, restructuring itself as the North European Federation, distances itself from the US.
The Soviet Union comes an economic cropper in the 1990s, and partially disintegrates. The Red-Brown alliance that failed to materialize OTL here comes into existence as a peculiarly Russian version of fascism, leftier than the Italian/French model and enthusiastically Greek Orthodox.
In 2010, a cold war of sorts continues, only now with at least four sides.
China remains the Last Bastion of Communism, and looks a bit like North Korea in the Large Economy Size, but thanks to a much larger geographic reach and self-sufficiency in fertilizers, machinery, etc. there is no mass famine: slow moves towards a "mixed" economy have been taking place since the late 90s.
The US is even more of a paranoid "security state" than OTL's post-2001 society, and is rather more anti-semitic and anti-catholic than OTL to boot: on the plus side, there's better healcare (with fascist, communist and Euro-left-democracies all having universal healthcare, the "state healthcare leads to the gulag" argument was less successful, although there are those who still claim it's inherently authoritarian)
The North European Federation is rich, liberal, and pursues a policy of armed neutrality and keeping out people with funny skin colors, now that there is a regular supply of poor white workers from post-Soviet east Europe.
The Fascist world, centered on the Catholic and mostly Latin-speaking Fascist Bloc, is a mixed bag of nations united by anti-communism, sexism, militarism and dislike of Americans and northern Europeans, but vary from outright dictatorship to simply right-wing authoritarian democracy (such as Israel). Although conservative by nature, there are some progressive elements to the way Fascist Bloc societies have developed: Mussolini was a bigger fan of Futurism in this world, and science and scientific advancement is a Big Thing throughout the Bloc. There's a lot more near-earth space development, and the use of nuclear power is more developed: a Europe with bad relations with the Arab world runs on atomic power. It is rather more heavily armed than the same areas OTL: Spain, South Africa, Brazil, Argentina, South Korea and Turkey all have nuclear weapons in this TL, and France has rather a lot more than the France of OTL (Italy is comparable).
The Fascist world has its own strains and stresses, and there are often squabbles between the French and the Italians for leadership: with China drawing back on the hardline rhetoric, a self-neutralized north Europe, an agressive but badly weakened Russia/USSR and a US willing to cede the initiative outside such "vital interest areas" as the Persian gulf, will the lack of external pressure cause the Bloc to fall apart? Much is expected to be discussed at the International Fascist Congress, which will meet in Buenos Aires in 2011...
Bruce
Due to some different events before and during WWI, Mussolini ends up with some different ideas on varied subjects such as race, religion and Futurism than his OTL version: he still ends up creating the Fascist party and making himself dictator, but find Hitler and his ideas rather less appealing than OTL, and by the mid 30's an ideological yelling (and in Musso's case, posing) match is going on between Italy and Germany. With Italy coming in on the allied side at a convenient point in WWII, and Mussolini himself dying at an even more convenient point, a clear seperation between Nazis and "proper" fascism becomes widely accepted.
After WWII, Italy creates its own little block with Spain and Portugal, and tries to expand its influence in South America and elsewhere, builds its own atom bomb, etc: after the French colonial wars go pear-shaped in the 50s and 60s, and the French military finds it has a model available, the Fascist Block suddenly starts looking rather muscular.
NATO splits, the Soviets rejoice, but are no more able than OTL to overcome their economic issues. Italy and France, having Muslim Problems, find some common ground with Israel (Musso has never had a problem with Jews as long as they were proper Fascists): the US, with an eye on the oil supply, distances itself from the Israelis.
The US effort to create a Grand Alliance of northern Europe, the Arabs, and the Chinese against the Red and the Black
does yield some benefits, such as cheaper gas and a victory of sorts in Vietnam, but also almost leads to WWIII as efforts in brinkmanship and destablization in the Soviet block go haywire. The rump European Community, restructuring itself as the North European Federation, distances itself from the US.The Soviet Union comes an economic cropper in the 1990s, and partially disintegrates. The Red-Brown alliance that failed to materialize OTL here comes into existence as a peculiarly Russian version of fascism, leftier than the Italian/French model and enthusiastically Greek Orthodox.
In 2010, a cold war of sorts continues, only now with at least four sides.
China remains the Last Bastion of Communism, and looks a bit like North Korea in the Large Economy Size, but thanks to a much larger geographic reach and self-sufficiency in fertilizers, machinery, etc. there is no mass famine: slow moves towards a "mixed" economy have been taking place since the late 90s.
The US is even more of a paranoid "security state" than OTL's post-2001 society, and is rather more anti-semitic and anti-catholic than OTL to boot: on the plus side, there's better healcare (with fascist, communist and Euro-left-democracies all having universal healthcare, the "state healthcare leads to the gulag" argument was less successful, although there are those who still claim it's inherently authoritarian)
The North European Federation is rich, liberal, and pursues a policy of armed neutrality and keeping out people with funny skin colors, now that there is a regular supply of poor white workers from post-Soviet east Europe.
The Fascist world, centered on the Catholic and mostly Latin-speaking Fascist Bloc, is a mixed bag of nations united by anti-communism, sexism, militarism and dislike of Americans and northern Europeans, but vary from outright dictatorship to simply right-wing authoritarian democracy (such as Israel). Although conservative by nature, there are some progressive elements to the way Fascist Bloc societies have developed: Mussolini was a bigger fan of Futurism in this world, and science and scientific advancement is a Big Thing throughout the Bloc. There's a lot more near-earth space development, and the use of nuclear power is more developed: a Europe with bad relations with the Arab world runs on atomic power. It is rather more heavily armed than the same areas OTL: Spain, South Africa, Brazil, Argentina, South Korea and Turkey all have nuclear weapons in this TL, and France has rather a lot more than the France of OTL (Italy is comparable).
The Fascist world has its own strains and stresses, and there are often squabbles between the French and the Italians for leadership: with China drawing back on the hardline rhetoric, a self-neutralized north Europe, an agressive but badly weakened Russia/USSR and a US willing to cede the initiative outside such "vital interest areas" as the Persian gulf, will the lack of external pressure cause the Bloc to fall apart? Much is expected to be discussed at the International Fascist Congress, which will meet in Buenos Aires in 2011...
Bruce
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Thanks! Fixed.
Well, Canadians, current government aside, have always struck me as relatively sensible people...
Bruce
So you ascribe to the "Interdimensional Ubiquity of Hugo Chavez" theory of alternate universes?
Bruce
Guess he's up there with Hitler and Napoleon!So you ascribe to the "Interdimensional Ubiquity of Hugo Chavez" theory of alternate universes?
Bruce
Age of Imperialisim, in 2002
Wars:
USA VS Metropolitania
USRSA VS Brazil
Ethiopia VS Egypt
Wars:
USA VS Metropolitania
USRSA VS Brazil
Ethiopia VS Egypt
Thanks for the map. I'm already trying to name all the bitch. That's how I came so far...
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