I like the revised basis of conversion. It sounds much more like the crisis of conscience for William that it should be.
Canada Wank (YACW)
- Thread starter Dathi THorfinnsson
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Yes, it's a bit far from Lower Canada, but the center of gravity of *Canada is visibly moving west. Michigan and Wisconsin are full provinces (haven't written the latter into the TL yet, nor set a date, but it certainly is by 1840).Looking good so far, Daði. London is indeed a surprising choice (though it is closer to Détroit), but I think you know your TL much better than me.
With the hostilities with the US coming they wanted it away from the lakes, and most of the reasonably sized cities are on the water.
A lunatic fringe, viewing the future wanted the capital in Chicago, but that was laughed down.
Note that OTL, Ottawa was picked as a capital of united Upper and Lower Canada, and was very central (and away from the hostile US). Here the 'central' ness is further west.
Toronto might have been chosen, but only Ontario wanted the capitals of Canada and Ontario to be the same. Kingston could have stayed the capital - but there's no really room for expansion.
Interesting historical factoid. When Talbott set up the Talbott settlement (the fore-runner of London), he intended it to be the capital, but a) no one else agreed, and b) it was not well connected at the time - read in the boonies.
Scottish devolution in the 19th century? When the Empire is riding high and Scottish influence in Westminster produces huge dividends? I really don't think so. Scottish devolution won't happen whilst the (upper) middle class is the politically dominant component of the Scottish polity.
20th century or later, when the economy shifts is the earliest for devolution to be suggested IMO.
You're renaming London? I like the idea of London being the capital as it is ideally suited for it (I'm going to assume that Dundas Street is going to turn into a major highway as a result then) but the name seems a tad cumbersome, but it sparks a question on my part. Naming of settlements in North America tended to follow a pattern with variants of Royal Names being used, as well as names of cities from the old country (which is how Kitchener wound up being called Berlin at first). So given that you intend on using an old Celtic name as the new name for London, are we going to be seeing that trend continue? Are more major settlements in Michigan and the western provinces going to use Celtic and Latin names? I'm just curious, otherwise this has been a great TL
Well, I thought it was well placed, all things considered. And if it is the capital of Canada, it really CAN'T be 'London'. "The Parliament in London decided today that... No, not that one, the other one!"You're renaming London? I like the idea of London being the capital as it is ideally suited for it (I'm going to assume that Dundas Street is going to turn into a major highway as a result then) but the name seems a tad cumbersome, but it sparks a question on my part. Naming of settlements in North America tended to follow a pattern with variants of Royal Names being used, as well as names of cities from the old country (which is how Kitchener wound up being called Berlin at first). So given that you intend on using an old Celtic name as the new name for London, are we going to be seeing that trend continue? Are more major settlements in Michigan and the western provinces going to use Celtic and Latin names? I'm just curious, otherwise this has been a great TL
As for classical names in the time period, look south to New York. Syracuse, Utica, Troy, Rome, etc. The OTL Celtic revival (with neo-Druids, tartans, etc., etc.) happened somewhat later (in Victorian times), but with the rise of the Empire, there could be a new interest in Arthurian themes and Arthur's Britons.
And, yes, it probably does mean some more classical names for settlements.
To be honest, the name change is an SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) reference/in joke, but since I couldn't think of a good alternate, I grabbed that. Actually calling the place Camelot would be a bit much, I think, and keeping a connexion to London (or other legendary capitals) makes sense.
I'd be prepared to retcon that, if anyone comes up with a better idea.
The Professional Diaconate
The Professional Diaconate
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The Florence-Nightingale Society (FNS), founded in the aftermath of the War of 1812, has slowly grown both in numbers and reputation and spread through the Empire. They have revolutionized the practise of nursing from slapdash care by camp-followers to a real profession.[1] This example of respectable women devoting their lives to the care of the less fortunate inspires others. Not everybody is called to medical ministry, and not all the needs of the downtrodden are medical. So, stating in the late 1820s, a group of Methodist women in Wales form a sisterhood and devote themselves to a life of religious charity, reaching out to the impoverished in the coal mining districts of Wales. Here, they are not only following the example of the early church, but also of their founder, John Wesley.[2] Deriving some of their inspiration from the New Testament description of the work of deacons, they call themselves “deaconesses” and their ministry the “permanent diaconate”.[3] Several of these deaconesses did receive FNS training as nurses, but they were a minority in these sisterhoods. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Initially, the church didn't quite know how to respond to a bunch of women taking authority into their own hands<g>, but after some debate, and seeing the 'good fruits' of their labour, decided to jump in front of their parade and lead it. By the mid-1830s, Methodist deaconesses were officially recognised and channelled into the hierarchy, but also given official support, and were spreading into the major cities of England and Wales, and starting to venture into the colonial field. Theodor Fliedner, a promising Lutheran minister from the continent comes to see how they are set up, and takes the idea back to Germany, setting up his Lutheran diaconate in 1833.[4] While the Methodists have a particular affinity to this work, the success of the project means other denominations imitate them. The first Anglican deaconesses organize in London in 1834, and Presbyterians start up in Glasgow in 1835. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Each of these groups uses slightly different names, some using “diaconate”, some “deaconesses”, and each group has slightly different rules, some requiring permanent celibacy, some allowing women to leave the organization to marry, or widows to join, and so on. While there is some competition between the various groups, they do recognise that they are all engaged in the Lord's work, and they often share techniques and recognise that they are part of a single movement. This movement gets called “The professional diaconate”, a term that none of the individual groups is using.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The FNS, being a non-sectarian group, is a somewhat different organization, with slightly different ends. But since there is sizeable overlap, and they are all engaged in the betterment of society, they often act together, and support each other, morally, organizationally, and politically.[/FONT]
–
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1 similar to the OTL revolution lead by Florence Nightingale, who gained prominence in the Crimean War.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 John Wesley was heavily engaged in what we would call the 'Social Gospel' as a response to God's call to us. It was to be an outcome (almost side effect) of one's renewed and increased faith, which was his primary emphasis.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]3 Deacons and deaconesses were a very important part of the early church, as even a cursory reading of the Acts of the Apostles will tell you. Specifically female bodies of deaconesses engaged in this ministry were common in the Eastern Church, but died out in the West, see[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://www.deacons.net/Articles/A_brief_history_of_the_permanent_Diaconate.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif](a very Roman centric view of the modern diaconate). For an OTL United Methodist history, see[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://gbgm-umc.org/global_news/full_article.cfm?articleid=3471[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]OTL, the modern 'deaconess' movement started with Theodor Fliedner (see http://www.countryjoe.com/nightingale/history.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Fliedner in 1836 with Lutherans.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]4 Three years earlier than OTL, because he didn't have to convince people of the utility of the idea first. (Theodor was born in 1800, so is a somewhat different person than OTL, but has the same convictions and career path.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]5 BTW, this religious impulse to help the poor gave rise, iOTL, not only to the diaconates already mentioned, but to Anglican nuns, in one direction, and the Salvation Army, in another. [/FONT]
The Professional Diaconate
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The Florence-Nightingale Society (FNS), founded in the aftermath of the War of 1812, has slowly grown both in numbers and reputation and spread through the Empire. They have revolutionized the practise of nursing from slapdash care by camp-followers to a real profession.[1] This example of respectable women devoting their lives to the care of the less fortunate inspires others. Not everybody is called to medical ministry, and not all the needs of the downtrodden are medical. So, stating in the late 1820s, a group of Methodist women in Wales form a sisterhood and devote themselves to a life of religious charity, reaching out to the impoverished in the coal mining districts of Wales. Here, they are not only following the example of the early church, but also of their founder, John Wesley.[2] Deriving some of their inspiration from the New Testament description of the work of deacons, they call themselves “deaconesses” and their ministry the “permanent diaconate”.[3] Several of these deaconesses did receive FNS training as nurses, but they were a minority in these sisterhoods. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Initially, the church didn't quite know how to respond to a bunch of women taking authority into their own hands<g>, but after some debate, and seeing the 'good fruits' of their labour, decided to jump in front of their parade and lead it. By the mid-1830s, Methodist deaconesses were officially recognised and channelled into the hierarchy, but also given official support, and were spreading into the major cities of England and Wales, and starting to venture into the colonial field. Theodor Fliedner, a promising Lutheran minister from the continent comes to see how they are set up, and takes the idea back to Germany, setting up his Lutheran diaconate in 1833.[4] While the Methodists have a particular affinity to this work, the success of the project means other denominations imitate them. The first Anglican deaconesses organize in London in 1834, and Presbyterians start up in Glasgow in 1835. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Each of these groups uses slightly different names, some using “diaconate”, some “deaconesses”, and each group has slightly different rules, some requiring permanent celibacy, some allowing women to leave the organization to marry, or widows to join, and so on. While there is some competition between the various groups, they do recognise that they are all engaged in the Lord's work, and they often share techniques and recognise that they are part of a single movement. This movement gets called “The professional diaconate”, a term that none of the individual groups is using.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The FNS, being a non-sectarian group, is a somewhat different organization, with slightly different ends. But since there is sizeable overlap, and they are all engaged in the betterment of society, they often act together, and support each other, morally, organizationally, and politically.[/FONT]
–
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1 similar to the OTL revolution lead by Florence Nightingale, who gained prominence in the Crimean War.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 John Wesley was heavily engaged in what we would call the 'Social Gospel' as a response to God's call to us. It was to be an outcome (almost side effect) of one's renewed and increased faith, which was his primary emphasis.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]3 Deacons and deaconesses were a very important part of the early church, as even a cursory reading of the Acts of the Apostles will tell you. Specifically female bodies of deaconesses engaged in this ministry were common in the Eastern Church, but died out in the West, see[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://www.deacons.net/Articles/A_brief_history_of_the_permanent_Diaconate.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif](a very Roman centric view of the modern diaconate). For an OTL United Methodist history, see[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://gbgm-umc.org/global_news/full_article.cfm?articleid=3471[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]OTL, the modern 'deaconess' movement started with Theodor Fliedner (see http://www.countryjoe.com/nightingale/history.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Fliedner in 1836 with Lutherans.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]4 Three years earlier than OTL, because he didn't have to convince people of the utility of the idea first. (Theodor was born in 1800, so is a somewhat different person than OTL, but has the same convictions and career path.)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]5 BTW, this religious impulse to help the poor gave rise, iOTL, not only to the diaconates already mentioned, but to Anglican nuns, in one direction, and the Salvation Army, in another. [/FONT]
Remember, we wanted Antonia to be kept visible and in a good light? ....
Several church organizations set up 'deaconess' programs by the end of the 19th century, this just moves the date forward and moves the initial movement from Germany to Wales. But, ja, basically.
The Salvation Army, if it ever arrives iTTL, will probably be more like the Anglican Church Army (similar organization and goals, but within the structure of an existing denomination).
Dathi
Interesting discussion on the marriage prospects and thinking about it Gonzaga's suggestion that only blood will matter to the Portuguese royals and the fact Williams has [or is going to] lose his claim to the throne would make things a lot easier for the young couple.
On the selection of the Canadian capital I find it a bit strange that they would rename London [Canada] to such an obscure name. Would have thought more likely to still keep it as London, to affirm the common links or name it something possibly with a Canadian theme - although admittedly nothing leaps to my mind.
Steve
Interesting discussion on the marriage prospects and thinking about it Gonzaga's suggestion that only blood will matter to the Portuguese royals and the fact Williams has [or is going to] lose his claim to the throne would make things a lot easier for the young couple.
On the selection of the Canadian capital I find it a bit strange that they would rename London [Canada] to such an obscure name. Would have thought more likely to still keep it as London, to affirm the common links or name it something possibly with a Canadian theme - although admittedly nothing leaps to my mind.
Steve
But as Dathi already pointed out, to do so would invite confusion between the two Londons, hence why they chose a (highly erroneous, in my opinion, but that's me) different name. I don't know how far back the calling of the Government "Westminster" and "Whitehall" goes, but even if that is discounted - it would create some problems between London, ON, and London, UK.
Dan1988
True and to be honest I went back to the previous page to catch up and forgot to read this page!
There is some chance for confusion but I wouldn't have thought it insurmountable.Alternatively, not sure how much was known about Arthurian legends at the time but Camalot might be an option. Or, although it could be too English, how about Winchester - the capital of England prior to London.
I think the most likely thing in real life might be to name it after some famous celebratory. Possibly even some derivation of Sophia, as unlikely to be confused with a minor town in the Ottoman Balkans.
Steve
If you want to go back far enough I believe that the Roman name for London was Augustus at one point. Hmmm.. if you call it Augusta does that mean golf..... naaaa.
Winchester, or New Winchester, or something.... Hmmm...
After the Queen's eldest daughter... Hmmm... Saint Sophia? (not to be confused with Hagia Sophia)... Might work. Sophiatown/ville/City doesn't have the right ring to it.
And/Or the cathedral in the new capital could be Saint Sophia...
OK, London will officially be renamed something more likely, but I'll sleep on it before deciding what.
Umm Dathi, I hate to be a nitpicker, but you have a problem with the Florence Nightingale society. Florence Nightingale wasn't born until 1820, so you really can't have a society named after someone who won't be in a position to contribute to society until at least the mid 1830's (unless the society is named after an alternate Florence who was born prior to the war of 1812). And you won't get a serious move towards modern ideas of medicine until the 1840's when Semmelweis starts to work on the death rate of birthing mothers. Course take this for what you will, cause the butterflies may have started early in your TL.
The Florence Nightingale in TTL was a First Nations woman from around the the War of 1812 and later. Does that help?
to be rather picky, it was named after Sister Florence and the First Nations Woman whose name translated as Nightingale. They worked together to establish a slightly less hap-hazard aproach to medicine. Thus, the Florence-Nightingale Society.
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