Map Thread V

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Please note that in French when a noun starts with a vowel the article is shortened, to consonant only.

This is even more spectacular when "de le Axxx" becomes "d'Axxx".

So if your map is in French, it should have :

République d'Australie Occidentale
République d'Australie du Sud
République d'Adélée
 
In OTL you're correct, however ITTL 'Oceanian French' has developed differently overtime than Metropolitan French, sort of like how American English has developed differently then British English, though further in some areas than English has changed.
 
In OTL you're correct, however ITTL 'Oceanian French' has developed differently overtime than Metropolitan French, sort of like how American English has developed differently then British English, though further in some areas than English has changed.

Nice recover. :cool:
 
Nice recover. :cool:

Not meant to cover, alternate language development has always been something I've been curious about, and since French is the language I know the most besides English, and the TL is based on France, I decided to try my hand at it.

ITTL the French language had already begun to change slightly by the end of the 19th century, however it was'nt until the 20th century that major language reforms went through, to ensure that French remained a dominant language as English had become dominant throughout North America, parts of Oceania, Asia and East Africa.
 
This is even more spectacular when "de le Axxx" becomes "d'Axxx".

So if your map is in French, it should have :

République d'Australie Occidentale
République d'Australie du Sud
République d'Adélée
I thought when using de le / du on a word beginning with a vowel, it became de l', not d'. For example, de le étranger becomes de l'étranger, not d'étranger...

Also, the Republic of West Australia might be la République de l'Australie de l'Ouest, which is basically the same thing. (De l'ouest is used more often than "Occident" AFAIK.) La République d'Australie du Sud is okay, as is la République d'Adélée.

In OTL you're correct, however ITTL 'Oceanian French' has developed differently overtime than Metropolitan French, sort of like how American English has developed differently then British English, though further in some areas than English has changed.
French doesn't work that way though. Honestly, the closest equivalent I can think of would be American English speakers dropping the use of "an," saying "a elephant," "a attack,' and so on. Not elliding would be the opposite of expected progression of the French language ITTL. Why would that shift occur here?
 

Onyx

Banned
French Guiana is part of France. Annexing it would be politically equivalent to annexing Manche or Savoie. It will result in an all-out war with France. The only thing keeping Venezuela in existence is that the attack occurred outside of the North Atlantic region. Most likely, France's allies, especially the US, will offer support. Goodbye, Sr. Chavez.

Huh? Why is the US defending separatist Greenland? Denmark is a NATO country. An attack by Greenland against Denmark is an attack against the US. But lets suppose, for whatever reason, the US supports Greenland against Denmark. How do propose Denmark is able to hold onto any of Greenland? In all likelihood, a single USN carrier battle group would sink the entire RDN as an exercise. (No offense to the Danish Navy -- it just isn't designed to project power). Likewise, the entire RDAF is only about the size of a single US carrier air wing.

Why does the PRC government colapse? Is the PLA sitting on the sidelines? How does ROC defeat PLA?

After just going through a civil war? Eyeing land that has been gone for 150 years? Doesn't sound like a wise move. It is likely to make ROK and Japan rather nervous, and that makes the US nervous. With both Russia and the US opposed, China gets nothing.

While gathered around the campfire singing Kumbaya?

The most likely part so far, although it is hard for me to imagine terrorists sweeping into anything.

Why would India want to encorperate a failed state into itself? A state that has repeatedly faught wars against India at that? Far more likely is India contributing peacekeeping forces to help Pakistan (or successor states) rebuild.

Why does India accept? Is the entire state suicidal?

Another attack against a NATO member. Ireland has just attack the US, France, Germany, et al. Seriously, why would Ireland do this? The entire Irish Army is about 1/20 the size of Her Majesty's army. The Irish Air Corp doesn't even field any fighters -- the RAF will have a field day. This doesn't even begin to consider other NATO forces. Suicidalism seems to be spreading around the globe like a virus.

So let me get this straight. Ireland fights a war to annex an area none too thrilled to be part or Ireland. Then they give up part of the sovreignity to the UK?

Hasn't he has already named his son Jong Un as his successor?

This part is believable.

Secretly? Sure, no one will notice the shiny new Russian equipment.

Wouldn't it be more likely that the economy suffers from the fact that the southern half of the penisular was just ravaged by war?

Cliched, but fine.
Why?

Why? Canada is one of the US's closet friends.

Um, they are already called Quebecois.

So now the Canadians have caught the suicidalitis that has been spreading around the world.

When did they loose it?

Not likely. Sakhalin is too important to the Russian Far East.

Now for the map. How did Germany and France grow? How did Russia get Mongolia? And what happened in European Russia?

................... Whoah. You totally raped a kid's dream there.
 
Europe. 1250. I have worked on this for a long time. Mainly art, but I offer some explanation. The Frankish Empire divides differently, indirectly causes collapse of Byzantine Empire during Arab invasion. Byzantine sucessor state pop up in the area. Alternate crusader states have emerged.

And something bad has happened to the Russian states...



Posting, or linking to, a larger version soon so you can better read the labels...

EDIT: Here: http://img19.imageshack.us/i/mkedondone.png/
 
Europe. 1250. I have worked on this for a long time. Mainly art, but I offer some explanation. The Frankish Empire divides differently, indirectly causes collapse of Byzantine Empire during Arab invasion. Byzantine sucessor state pop up in the area. Alternate crusader states have emerged.

And something bad has happened to the Russian states...


Posting, or linking to, a larger version soon so you can better read the labels...

EDIT: Here: http://img19.imageshack.us/i/mkedondone.png/
Did you actually use my basemap?!

I love it. The text looks real good, and Uberbohemia is awesome.
 
Still working with the basemap, probably second to last of it I post. Year 1931. The Russian Empire went the way of Austria Hungary after a war with the UK over central Asia. Siberia is a UK protectorate. The rest of what happened to Russia is pretty self explanitory, though the Baltics merged (partialy my doing) so they would be strong enough to resist the Russians (though with Russia having a mil score of 6...)

In other news economic downturns lead Norway to break off from Sweeden, though the Scandinavianists in Denmark and Sweeden arn't to happy with that. The same economic downturn leads Denmark to conquer part of Norway for economic benefit (and yes it did work).

Commie Denmark 1931.PNG
 
French doesn't work that way though. Honestly, the closest equivalent I can think of would be American English speakers dropping the use of "an," saying "a elephant," "a attack,' and so on. Not elliding would be the opposite of expected progression of the French language ITTL. Why would that shift occur here?

The major changes are the result of the 20th century language reform, not the differences between Metropolitan and Oceanian French.

An example of a difference between Oceanian (as well as African) French and Metropolitan French would be this;


South Australia;
Metro French: Australie-Méridionale
Oceanian French: Sud Australie / Australie du Sud

Oceanian French is heavily influenced by English, so theirs a condensation of vocabulary so the word Sud is used to mean South, hence Sud Australie.
Another change is an odd tendency to say things in odd ways, as example Australie du Sud, Australia of the South.
 

Susano

Banned
I like that, it's got some interesting ideas and nothing leaps out at me as being implausible.

Yes, its good for just those reasons. Though some things:
1. Eastphalia is out of its place. There was an Eastphalia, the eastern third of classical (i.e. Lower) Saxony, so still west of the Elbe...
2. A Grand Duchy in 1250?
3. Brabant seems to have lost its core territory (i.e., Brussels).
 
Europe. 1250. I have worked on this for a long time. Mainly art, but I offer some explanation. The Frankish Empire divides differently, indirectly causes collapse of Byzantine Empire during Arab invasion. Byzantine sucessor state pop up in the area. Alternate crusader states have emerged.

And something bad has happened to the Russian states...
Something about the Anatolian borders bothers me. I think it centers around Cappadocia-- it just looks really rectangular, and makes Anatolia as a whole look like it was divided up by people who have made in-depth studies of midwestern American borders.

It bothers me.
 

Thande

Donor
Not even that enormous Wales?

It's not implausible if the POD is sufficiently early. Not sure if it would be known as "Wales" internationally, but that's nitpicking.

I would be interested in hearing just how Maharajah saw it arising, though.
 

Thande

Donor
Something about the Anatolian borders bothers me. I think it centers around Cappadocia-- it just looks really rectangular, and makes Anatolia as a whole look like it was divided up by people who have made in-depth studies of midwestern American borders.

It bothers me.

I thought the same, but I said the same about one of Shadow Knight's maps a while back, and apparently some of the historical Anatolian states in this era actually were surprisingly rectangular.
 
Europe. 1250. I have worked on this for a long time. Mainly art, but I offer some explanation. The Frankish Empire divides differently, indirectly causes collapse of Byzantine Empire during Arab invasion. Byzantine sucessor state pop up in the area. Alternate crusader states have emerged.

And something bad has happened to the Russian states...

Nice, but a quibble. If the Byzantine empire collapsed during the Arab invasions, why isn't more of Anatolia Islamic?

Bruce
 
The world of Churchill’s “If Lee Had Not Won the Battle Of Gettysburg.”

It’s a multipolar world, but the Big Three are definitly the European Federation, The English-Speaking Association, and Russia.

Russia, which has a one-party government that can be roughly described as “populist fascsim” , is currently suffering from internal turbulence. Economic problems arising from slow productivity growth, increasingly powerful pro-democracy forces disgusted with the omnipresent corruption, a sluggish executive hampered by feuds between party bosses, the aftermath of Russia’s disastrous 1989-2007 excursion in Iran…gleeful EF and ESA predictions of the imminent collapse of the Russian dictatorship may be premature – the mechanisms for a brutal crackdown are still in place – but the regime that took over after the brief democratic interlude of 1943-1955 looks to be on it’s last legs. Still, Russia is still the world’s largest industrial power (unless the EF and the ESA are taken as single states, which most don’t), has a very large nuclear arsenal, and if things go entirely pear-shaped it could be bad for everyone.

The European Federation watches somewhat nervously. Rich, civilized (some say over-civilized), and worried about low birth rates, the Federation, to the dissapointment of many, has failed to gell into a genuine “United States of Europe.” The German Empire, with its 132 million inhabitants, is the core of the project, which is perhaps also the problem. The French (late and reluctant joiners) squabble with the Germans, the Serbs squabble with the Albanians, and the Danubian states squabble among themselves. The Germans of 1943, more tolerant than those of 1917, decided to take into their Empire a Kingdom of Poland, with comparable status to Bavaria or Saxony. The Poles have been surprisingly ungrateful for German tolerance, and push for greater autonomy whenever given a chance, and have managed to reverse the drift towards linguistic Germanization which took place from the 40’s to the 80’s.

The ESA is the dominant power, although not without it’s own internal divisions. (The Confederates suspect the others of looking down on them, and the US feels that the other two should be more willing to accept its obvious superiority, and the British fail to see why the others don’t recognize it’s clearly greater sophistication and civilization and let_them_ take the lead). The Confederacy, after finally granting it’s black citizens full civil rights in the 80’s, is slowly feeling its way towards the scary future of racial equality (the violent revolt of Southern Mexico in the 50’s was something of a warning), while the UK is only just getting over the crumbling of much of its empire between the 60’s and the 90’s, and still a bit bitter that the US wouldn’t spend more blood and treasure helping to keep it together. (Those sullen, half-devil, half-child people, it turned out, could be quite a handful, especially after they figured out media relations and high explosives).

South Africa is dominated politically by an alliance among whites, coloreds, asians, and rich black sell-outs: a byzantine complexity of political jerrymandering, “autonomous districts”, education and property requirements keeps the black portion of the national parliament down to under 25%, but at least it’s better than aparthied, as the man with no legs said to the man with no head. On the bright side, the East African Confederation has actually managed to make a transition to black-majority rule, and there’s even been a peaceful transfer of power (the local white and asian population remain somewhat uncertain about the whole rule-by-black-people thing, and rather happy about the treaty which allows the maintenance of ESA military bases in the country).

African Americans have had an unpleasant time of it – in the south, where that “idiotic assertion of racial equality”, as Churchill put it, was avoided for many a year, and in the North, where the powerful labor unions were interested in protecting _white_ jobs and salries. Many left for the British Empire, where at least a modicum of tolerance could be found, and quite a few more than OTL ended up in Liberia, creating a ruling class large enough to convert and assimilate enough of the locals to maintain power – and, in time, swallow the other freedman’s dumping ground of Sierra Leone and create a local alliance of African states as colonialism slowly ebbed in Africa in the 80’s and 90’s.

Latin America is with few exceptions under the anglo-American economic thumb: Mexico embargoes all trade with the Confederacy, but the US and the British Empire accounts for the bulk of it’s trade, and in spite of their ideological good-buddyness, Russia is not Brazil’s largest trading partner. On the positive side, Argnetina, economically integrated into the ESA, has avoided Peronism, and is roughly as rich as New Zealand.

Although the old local governor in the pith helmet and essentially unlimited latitude is now gone, much of the third world is still economically or politically quite closely tied to the ESA or the EF, and doing something dumb like nationalizing a German mining concern is a good way to get the Wehrmacht parked on the front lawn of your parliament. Although the March Of Science means biological racism is passe, ideas of cultural superiority and bad cultural “memes” are alive and well. (One aspect of this is the disappointment of Confederate whites that the now-empowerd blacks have failed to immediately and enthusiastically oreo-ize themselves. They’re now legally equal to white people, so why won’t they act the part?)

Libya is a 40% Italian Aparthied state, and not a Happy Place.

The Ottomans regained Istanbul as a result of the China war (also known by the more uncouth as “the war of the Russian bitch-slapping”), but have kept their political capital in the less accessible Anatolian highlands. They don’t get along well with the Bulgarians, who tried to grb it from the Russians before _they_ could get it. They are currently having a bit of a quarrel with the Egyptians as to who is the Big Dog of Sunni Islam (Big Power Blocks is considered the way to go in this world, and there has been talking of an Islamic block for decades), a quarrel in which the Turks enjoy annoying the Egyptians by pointing out that, technically, the Khedive is the vassal of the Sultan.

The end of the British Raj was drawn-out and painful, and in the end British influence was maintained only in the periphery (Pakistan favored the British in exchange for support for their claims to Kashmir, and Afghanistan and Tibet wanted someone to keep the Russians off their backs). Under British influence, the liberal-minded current Dalai Lama has eliminated slavery and people are rarely tortured to death anymore.

China was kept disunited by outside meddling through the 30’s, but in 1951 it was finally unified under an understandably xenophobic regime, whose policies of high tarriffs, import substitution, and a government emphasis on Big Steel Things slowed economic growth almost as badly as Communism: China today is a bit further along the path to superpowerdom than OTL China, but it is not so notable in a world with three, arguably four, superpowers.

The arguable fourth is the Japanese-led Indo-Pacific Co-Prosperity Sphere. Kept by ESA and Russian pressure from doing more in China than a little light warlord-manipulating and opium-selling, the Japanese decided that the only way to go was the ESA way and seek allies among other Asian states, and set itself up as the Friend of Opressed Peoples. (“Screaming under the floorboards? Oh, that! Nothing to concern yourself with, it’s just a leaky boiler – have some more tea! Yes, it is strange how it sounds like Korean, no?”)

Technology is a bit less advanced in some fields, such as computers and aerospace, rather more advanced in others, such as medicine, synthetics, and industrial chemistry, as a result of different priorities: there have been some limited wars, but no world wars, and a bigger “first world.” Nobody but robots has gone to the moon, but there are a number of space stations.

It’s generally a more elitist, racist world than ours, with many nasty assumptions not rubbed in people’s faces as in our world: there was no Holocaust, but there were perhaps 100,000 Jewish “surplus deaths” in Russia from the 50’s to the 90’s, and about 2 million more emigrated from Russia. Culture is rich, baroque, and perhaps a bit overripe: some of the New Decadent artists coming out of germany would give Marilyn Manson the hebbe jeebies. And let’s not even talk about Russian Country & Eastern music.

Bruce
 
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