I like that the TL is not simply an "infinitely expanding Epirus," which would have been too easy. Kudos for, um, historical complexity. (+1, if we're now using a point system
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I like that the TL is not simply an "infinitely expanding Epirus," which would have been too easy. Kudos for, um, historical complexity. (+1, if we're now using a point system
)Not a problem, glad to help.Yes, I've screwed up the locations of Mosul, Baghdad and Diyarbakr
Goldstein
Banned
Frankolio's awesome map series has inspired me to make an "Axis victory to end with all Axis victories" map, in the line of Tony Jones's Superpunk TL. The pan-turkik idea and borders are borrowed from Frankolio's maps, so the credit for that goes to him.
A few notes:
-Brazil suffered a German-backed coup that put Plinio Salgado and his reformed Integralist movement in power in the late 40's. Later, Brazil distanciated from the German Reich, as new prominent Integralist figures promoted the idea of the superiority of the mixed races. Brazil became a regional power, and eventually Portugal fell into the Brazilian Sphere.
-Spain went through Francoism, but under the German umbrella, the Falangist movement became more and more prominent as years went by. After Franco's death, the various Francoist factions struggled for power, resulting in a Falangist victory and a political purge. The Spanish State became the National Syndicalist Republic of Spain.
-Germany promoted a Pan-Turkik state under the rule of Huseyn Nihal Atsiz.
-South Africa is the last formal democracy in the world, but actually the National Party has an absolute power and good relations with Germany.
-As Haj Amin Al-Husayni became unpopular and fell into disgrace, Germany started to promote Syrian nationalism in the Middle East. Antun Sa'adeh managed to make real his dream of a Greater Syria. Arab nationalism died in its craddle.
-India managed its independence under the rule of Subhas Chandra Bose and became close to the Japanese sphere. While still authoritarian and conservative, it can be regarded as the "less bad" of TTL's governments.
-Saudi Arabia is the only country that is indistinguishable from its OTL's counterpart.
-The former USA is as fucked up as it seems.
A few notes:
-Brazil suffered a German-backed coup that put Plinio Salgado and his reformed Integralist movement in power in the late 40's. Later, Brazil distanciated from the German Reich, as new prominent Integralist figures promoted the idea of the superiority of the mixed races. Brazil became a regional power, and eventually Portugal fell into the Brazilian Sphere.
-Spain went through Francoism, but under the German umbrella, the Falangist movement became more and more prominent as years went by. After Franco's death, the various Francoist factions struggled for power, resulting in a Falangist victory and a political purge. The Spanish State became the National Syndicalist Republic of Spain.
-Germany promoted a Pan-Turkik state under the rule of Huseyn Nihal Atsiz.
-South Africa is the last formal democracy in the world, but actually the National Party has an absolute power and good relations with Germany.
-As Haj Amin Al-Husayni became unpopular and fell into disgrace, Germany started to promote Syrian nationalism in the Middle East. Antun Sa'adeh managed to make real his dream of a Greater Syria. Arab nationalism died in its craddle.
-India managed its independence under the rule of Subhas Chandra Bose and became close to the Japanese sphere. While still authoritarian and conservative, it can be regarded as the "less bad" of TTL's governments.
-Saudi Arabia is the only country that is indistinguishable from its OTL's counterpart.
-The former USA is as fucked up as it seems.
Krall
Banned
Why are France, Britain and Spain marked as being influenced by Germany's puppets? And why does Japan/one of its puppets claim all of India? And why is the USA the only part of Germany's vast empire to be in revolt/resisting German rule/whatever?
I assume that's just because it's wouldn't be the ultimate Axis victory if all of the Axis' newly-acquired territories revolted and caused a heap of trouble for all concerned.
Goldstein
Banned
France, Spain and Britain are Germany's puppets. I've put their UCS colours to distinguish their possesions in Africa, and in the British case, to note that Britain still controls Ireland.
That is supposed to mean "De jure is a Japanese puppet, de facto is independent"
It is not. It's just the one where resistance is harsher. Why? Because Germans are outnumbered, exceptionalist feelings are still strong and gun ownership is very extended.
Krall
Banned
Ah, I see. You could replace the German puppet colour with the German colour in those countries, as that would should
But being a puppet means you're de jure independent but de facto controlled by another nation!
I find it hard to believe that the USA is the only place where the resistance is strong enough to warrant being coloured on the map.
This was originally for frankolio's Map of Germany victories in WWI and WWII thread, but then I realized he did want to have the sides switched up so I decided to just do whatever I felt like with it. Thus the world after the First Great War:
The POD is, Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria not only survives the assassination attempt at Mayerling, but kills his would-be-assassins in self-defense. When the assassins are examined it becomes apparent that they are agents of the French. The World press gets wind of the plot to kill Franz Joseph which then led to the plot to kill Rudolf for refusing to join in the plot to kill his father, and plasters it on every newspaper they can find. France becomes isolated diplomatically from much of Western Europe, forced to seeks friends in Russia and Japan, (and secretly Italy). The attempt on Rudolf's life causes him to reconcile with his wife and begin to reconcile with his father. When Sissi is assasinated in 1898, the Emperor and the Crown Prince finally finish their reconciliation. Rudolf becomes Franz Joseph's closest confidante and serves as his father's Chancellor. In 1899, Rudolf welcomes his son and heir, Franz Joseph into the world. He lobbies his father heavily starting in 1900, to reform the structure of the empire, if not to appease the ethnicities of the Habsburg Monarchy, then to ensure the legacy of the Habsburg Family and the rights of his grandson. The latter two arguements work and Franz Joseph orders a committee meet in Vienna, headed by Crown Prince Rudolf to draft a proposal for a Federal Empire. In 1904, Franz Joseph issues an Imperial Decree, dissolving the Dual Monarchy, and replacing it with the Federal Danubian Empire. He takes the position of Danubian Emperor, lowering Austria back to the status of Archduchy, and recognizing the rights of the Kingdom of Bohemia, Kingdom of Croatia, Kingdom of Galicia, Apostolic Kingdom of Hungary, Kingdom of Ruthenia, and Grand Principality of Transylvania.
The First Great War errupts in 1914, when Serbian Nationalists bomb several government buildings in Zagreb in retaliation for the occupation of Bosnia by the Federal Empire, and Bosnia's annexation into Croatia. They flee back into Serbia, and Danubia demands their extradition, supported by Germany, the Netherlands, Greece, Romania, and Italy (for the momement). The Serbs refuse and call on Russia, who in turn calls on France who in turn calls on Japan and Italy. Belgium unwisely decides to violate it's neutrality under pressure from France. Great Britain and America, while officially remaining neutral, heavily supply the Zagreb Coalition with material and harass French and Russia shipping.
Thus the world after the Treaty of Bad Ischl, ending the First Great War. The Zagreb Coalition has won resounding victory, and forced
terms on the Franco-Russian Alliance, including, the break up of Italy, into Habsburg dominated territories. The restoration of the Duchy of Burgundy under Charles V(Karl I of Austria OTL), the creation of the County of Champagne under Albert I, formerly Prince of Monaco, who is being compensated for the loss of Monaco to Burgundy. In Eastern Europe the victors install Habsburgs on the Polish and Ukrainian Thrones, and members of the Greek Royal Family on the Georgian and Armenian Thrones. While not part of the victorious coalition, Great Britain is honored with influence in Central Asia, and Germany and Britain partition China.
Greece and Armenia have seized on unrest in Ottoman Turkey, and with the support of Wilhelm II and Rudolf I(who assumed the throne in 1919 after the death of his father), and invaded the sick man of Europe to retake ancient claims.
The POD is, Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria not only survives the assassination attempt at Mayerling, but kills his would-be-assassins in self-defense. When the assassins are examined it becomes apparent that they are agents of the French. The World press gets wind of the plot to kill Franz Joseph which then led to the plot to kill Rudolf for refusing to join in the plot to kill his father, and plasters it on every newspaper they can find. France becomes isolated diplomatically from much of Western Europe, forced to seeks friends in Russia and Japan, (and secretly Italy). The attempt on Rudolf's life causes him to reconcile with his wife and begin to reconcile with his father. When Sissi is assasinated in 1898, the Emperor and the Crown Prince finally finish their reconciliation. Rudolf becomes Franz Joseph's closest confidante and serves as his father's Chancellor. In 1899, Rudolf welcomes his son and heir, Franz Joseph into the world. He lobbies his father heavily starting in 1900, to reform the structure of the empire, if not to appease the ethnicities of the Habsburg Monarchy, then to ensure the legacy of the Habsburg Family and the rights of his grandson. The latter two arguements work and Franz Joseph orders a committee meet in Vienna, headed by Crown Prince Rudolf to draft a proposal for a Federal Empire. In 1904, Franz Joseph issues an Imperial Decree, dissolving the Dual Monarchy, and replacing it with the Federal Danubian Empire. He takes the position of Danubian Emperor, lowering Austria back to the status of Archduchy, and recognizing the rights of the Kingdom of Bohemia, Kingdom of Croatia, Kingdom of Galicia, Apostolic Kingdom of Hungary, Kingdom of Ruthenia, and Grand Principality of Transylvania.
The First Great War errupts in 1914, when Serbian Nationalists bomb several government buildings in Zagreb in retaliation for the occupation of Bosnia by the Federal Empire, and Bosnia's annexation into Croatia. They flee back into Serbia, and Danubia demands their extradition, supported by Germany, the Netherlands, Greece, Romania, and Italy (for the momement). The Serbs refuse and call on Russia, who in turn calls on France who in turn calls on Japan and Italy. Belgium unwisely decides to violate it's neutrality under pressure from France. Great Britain and America, while officially remaining neutral, heavily supply the Zagreb Coalition with material and harass French and Russia shipping.
Thus the world after the Treaty of Bad Ischl, ending the First Great War. The Zagreb Coalition has won resounding victory, and forced
terms on the Franco-Russian Alliance, including, the break up of Italy, into Habsburg dominated territories. The restoration of the Duchy of Burgundy under Charles V(Karl I of Austria OTL), the creation of the County of Champagne under Albert I, formerly Prince of Monaco, who is being compensated for the loss of Monaco to Burgundy. In Eastern Europe the victors install Habsburgs on the Polish and Ukrainian Thrones, and members of the Greek Royal Family on the Georgian and Armenian Thrones. While not part of the victorious coalition, Great Britain is honored with influence in Central Asia, and Germany and Britain partition China.
Greece and Armenia have seized on unrest in Ottoman Turkey, and with the support of Wilhelm II and Rudolf I(who assumed the throne in 1919 after the death of his father), and invaded the sick man of Europe to retake ancient claims.
Goldstein
Banned
OK, that should make it less confusing.
The Free Indian Republic belongs to the Greater Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere, but Japan isn't really interested in India and gives it free hand in almost everything. It is a very unique status and I don't know how to reflect it otherwise.
Hmmm... I fear you're right. Let's make it more interesting.
Axis bukkake, take 2:
Zimmerwald1915
Banned
Miedzymorze (sic.) without Ukraine?sometime in the 1970s in a universe were the 2nd war in Europe never happened, among other POD that led this world to depart from the timeline of our own.
My continuation.
The Bantu continue their advance northward into Egypt , and after conquering the whole of Upper Egypt the Ptolemaic Dynasty is on the verge of collapse. The armies are in a complete route , and can barley maintain order , so Ptolemy the IV turns to Carthaginian Leader Hastricual. Embolded by his success in seizing all of non-epriote Italy from Epirus and wanting to avenge his defeat from the Seubi in Gaul he and an army of 16,000 men march east from Cyrene with a supporting armada of 60 ships to aid the Ptolemys. In exchange for this aid Carthage recieves all of Barica in the west , and the Phonecian Motherland , where the Phonecian culture was very still much alive.
Egypt's weakness have brought in predators. Pontus has siezed most of the former territories and Parthia some of the frontier territories. Pontus also launched another war against the Ionian Leauge *a series* and siezed the Bosporus from Macedon.
Macedon was also a dying empire , and after a victory over Dacian tribes in thrace *which was a foregone conclusion* the Macedonian army marched south , and was defeated at Chalacis by the Pelloponesian Leauge. With diplomatic maneuvering Epirus secured the throne of Macedon , and barley managed to stop the Pelloponese.
Meanwhile the Bosporans continue to receive a steady influx of colonists , and they begin forceful expansion. While Sarmatian conquests continue against Parthia , unrest grows at home due to lack of control. This leads to Saurui , a general of Sarmatia , to re-establish Saka-Rakua and take control over the lands and additional ones by himself.
The Cimmerian Bosporans expand into Sarmatia as does Armenia *which it did OTL* leading to the current borders , however with these conquests and conquests by their western negibhoors military expansion begins , and government centralization begins , all ideas adopted from the Greeks.
The Seubi meanwhile manage to conquer a small strip of land on the Frontier of Carthage Hispanolia and also begin to fully absorb the colonists from Massilia which they had conquered years earlier. The colonists are appointed to positions in the loose tribal system and begin to bring reform to this nation as well.
The Averni meanwhile begin to stagnate , loosing almost all of their conquered land in Italy to Carthaginian forces , they too begin to see a need for reforms , though it is at a snail's pace. This is all amplified by failed wars against Dacia , Epirus , and the Seubi.
The Parthians also finally manage to pull 3 decisive victories against the Saka and Mayurans , and destroy Lahkmid and Omani influence in the South. The Viccius also continue to spread northward.
Miedzymorze (sic.) without Ukraine?
well how do you suppose you wrestle a Ukraine SSR from a enlarged Soviet Union?
sometime in the 1970s in a universe were the 2nd war in Europe never happened, among other POD that led this world to depart from the timeline of our own.
"Among other POD" is, I suppose, how Japan managed to grab England and France's colonies in SE Asia without starting a war, and how the Poles managed to get Hungary on the same team as Romania and Yugoslavia. I suppose some of the other members are a bit more probable if Vilna is still Lithuanian and the Czech Idontrememberthename is still Polish.
Still, it's inherent coolness outbalances my objections.
Bruce
1944. instead of invading Italy the allies invade the Balkans. in the east the japanese pulled all their troops out of burma and new guinia to invade the soviet union
A fairly random map for a SFnal setting, a couple centuries hence.
After a couple centuries and 2-3 more World Wars (people argue) ethnic patterns have changed a bit. Some depopulated territories have been resettled or subject to “neo-neo-colonialism” from elsewhere: the Indians were the winner of WW 4/5 in the sense that there were enough of them left to avoid being assimilated by Persians or Indonesians.
France is presently governed from Montreal, and Poland was recreated (somewhat inaccurately) by the Polish-American community. The Argentines don’t pay much attention to the claims of the Russian Fifth Republic: they are a very solid majority east of the Baltic.
The Caliphate is fairly democratic nowadays, and not much more conservative than, say, 2008 McCain states, aside from modes of dress. Much wackier are the Indians, who have largely closed themselves off from the world in their pursuit of a “perfect” Hindu state managed by computers.
The US largely dominates the PanAmerican Alliance, save for corporation-run Brazil, and they don’t mind the US leading the show as long as profits run high.
The Southern Africans are the newest of the major powers, and a bit insecure about their identity, what with the multiplicity of languages, the religious divisions between the various Christian sects, the Neo-Paganists, and the Mormons, and the debate as to which, if any, of the half-dozen or so African American identities developed since the Civil War is worth emulating. They are currently allies of the Americans.
The Philippinos form a rather loose sort of alliance with the other three major powers of mainland East Asia: one of the world’s most densely populated countries, they are the leading regional power. Of late, they have been grumbling about the Koreans allowing the Japanese to establish some of their bubble-cities in the Siberian North, which they’ve never been able to make much out of: the Japanese, the majority of which have lived off earth rather than on it since the 4th World War, are quite accustomed to make a living in quite harsher conditions. WWII and the older business with the ears may not have much resonance with modern Koreans, but the Philippinos really don’t trust those vat-grown wierdos.
Bruce
After a couple centuries and 2-3 more World Wars (people argue) ethnic patterns have changed a bit. Some depopulated territories have been resettled or subject to “neo-neo-colonialism” from elsewhere: the Indians were the winner of WW 4/5 in the sense that there were enough of them left to avoid being assimilated by Persians or Indonesians.
France is presently governed from Montreal, and Poland was recreated (somewhat inaccurately) by the Polish-American community. The Argentines don’t pay much attention to the claims of the Russian Fifth Republic: they are a very solid majority east of the Baltic.
The Caliphate is fairly democratic nowadays, and not much more conservative than, say, 2008 McCain states, aside from modes of dress. Much wackier are the Indians, who have largely closed themselves off from the world in their pursuit of a “perfect” Hindu state managed by computers.
The US largely dominates the PanAmerican Alliance, save for corporation-run Brazil, and they don’t mind the US leading the show as long as profits run high.
The Southern Africans are the newest of the major powers, and a bit insecure about their identity, what with the multiplicity of languages, the religious divisions between the various Christian sects, the Neo-Paganists, and the Mormons, and the debate as to which, if any, of the half-dozen or so African American identities developed since the Civil War is worth emulating. They are currently allies of the Americans.
The Philippinos form a rather loose sort of alliance with the other three major powers of mainland East Asia: one of the world’s most densely populated countries, they are the leading regional power. Of late, they have been grumbling about the Koreans allowing the Japanese to establish some of their bubble-cities in the Siberian North, which they’ve never been able to make much out of: the Japanese, the majority of which have lived off earth rather than on it since the 4th World War, are quite accustomed to make a living in quite harsher conditions. WWII and the older business with the ears may not have much resonance with modern Koreans, but the Philippinos really don’t trust those vat-grown wierdos.
Bruce
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