this is a map in progress that im working a timeline with. and thank you knight templar for the base map and vexacus for the inspiration. i dont want to give too much away. not untill im done with it. but i do want to hear what people have to say about it.
Map Thread V
- Thread starter Ian the Admin
- Start date
- Status
You're welcome but I didn't make the base map actually I don't remember who made it
Merry Christmas!
The rest of the german is "bearable", as in intelligable. Only minor grammatical detailing.
And i would just keep it as Zawawaland. the -land denotes already a region or place. You wouldnt call it England-island either. Or Deutschland-country.
See what i mean?
While you are right, Eiland is also used at times, at least afaik. It has rather been used in the old days, though. Maybe Eiland is indeed fitting that timeframe of the map.
Susano
Banned
Hm. First thing is word order. Yukaland Kapitänsrolle doesnt work (even discounting Kapitänsrolle). It possibly works with a - connecting the words, but thats cumbersome. The names need to switch around: First "title", then region name (and unlike English no "of/von" inbetween).
Similarily, Jana Eiland would have -, too. As for Eiland, see below.
Speaking of which, if you want something like Capitanicy, why not use a German suffix instead of the German word for roll? Kapitänschaft or something like that. So Kapitänschaft Jana-Insel or Kapitänschaft Jana-Eiland
Carolina seems a very English name, but then I guess the -a isnt an usual English suffix either, so okay. Might want to have it be Karolina, though (or if in this world there is no "k-ification" in the German language than things like Kalingoaland or indeed Kapitän need to be revsied - so maybe just changing it into Karolina would be easier...).
The -ia suffix (Mayia) is English, the German equivalent would be -ien (or in rare cases -ei). However, IMO "Mayien" would sound odd. "Mayaland" may be better.
The problems in the demographics are all declination. Hence, instead of "Demorgaphie der" "Demographie von" would be better (except for Jana-Insel, as Insel is indeed grammatically female. Eiland, if you want to continue using it, would be grammatcially neuter, hence des. Would be "des Jana-Eilands" then.)
Its possible, like in English, to have it be just "Deutsch" and "Spanisch und Portugiesisch", undeclinated, but that would then refer to the languages, and hence it would have to be "Andere Europäische Sprachen" (languages) and "Andere Sprachen". Or, if it is indeed ethnicity/people ("Germans" instead of "German") it would be to be "Deutsche", "Spanier und Portugiesen", "Andere Europäer" and "Andere".
Im... not so sure actually. Ive never seen it in an islands name, in any case. I think its used either as poetic term for islands, or for small islands, or both or something. Now, if its also Dutch for proper islands, it works to have it also be in an islands name, I guess, but as said, note "Eilands" declination and grammatical gender
Susano
Banned
Yeah, but you would call it Kingdom of England or Federal Republic of Germany. Its not a double denotation, it is its official category Krall talks about, so to say.The rest of the german is "bearable", as in intelligable. Only minor grammatical detailing.
And i would just keep it as Zawawaland. the -land denotes already a region or place. You wouldnt call it England-island either. Or Deutschland-country.
See what i mean?
Krall
Banned
Ah, good.
And i would just keep it as Zawawaland. the -land denotes already a region or place. You wouldnt call it England-island either. Or Deutschland-country.
See what i mean?
But Zawawaland is just the name of the colony, the colony is a captaincy, so it is the Zawawaland captaincy. You see, -land denotes that it is an area of land or a country, whereas captaincy refers to the form of government.
You're welcome but I didn't make the base map actually I don't remember who made it
Merry Christmas!
Looks like a Shadow Knight original.
Courtesy of that website of course.
Ah, good.
But Zawawaland is just the name of the colony, the colony is a captaincy, so it is the Zawawaland captaincy. You see, -land denotes that it is an area of land or a country, whereas captaincy refers to the form of government.
Aaaaah, i see now. NOw that Susano and you have explained it further, i understand that principle of a captaincy. Or at least the term.
Kapitänschaft Zawawaland for example would be suitable, then.
Anyway, this is just minor babbling. Keep posting great, interesting maps. We will iron out the details later
You're welcome but I didn't make the base map actually I don't remember who made it
Merry Christmas!
maybe you didnt make the make but you did edit it so that it was useful for my purposes. Merry Christmas back
Krall
Banned
Hm. First thing is word order. Yukaland Kapitänsrolle doesnt work (even discounting Kapitänsrolle). It possibly works with a - connecting the words, but thats cumbersome. The names need to switch around: First "title", then region name (and unlike English no "of/von" inbetween).
Similarily, Jana Eiland would have -, too. As for Eiland, see below.
Speaking of which, if you want something like Capitanicy, why not use a German suffix instead of the German word for roll? Kapitänschaft or something like that. So Kapitänschaft Jana-Insel or Kapitänschaft Jana-Eiland
Carolina seems a very English name, but then I guess the -a isnt an usual English suffix either, so okay. Might want to have it be Karolina, though (or if in this world there is no "k-ification" in the German language than things like Kalingoaland or indeed Kapitän need to be revsied - so maybe just changing it into Karolina would be easier...).
The -ia suffix (Mayia) is English, the German equivalent would be -ien (or in rare cases -ei). However, IMO "Mayien" would sound odd. "Mayaland" may be better.
The problems in the demographics are all declination. Hence, instead of "Demorgaphie der" "Demographie von" would be better (except for Jana-Insel, as Insel is indeed grammatically female. Eiland, if you want to continue using it, would be grammatcially neuter, hence des. Would be "des Jana-Eilands" then.)
Its possible, like in English, to have it be just "Deutsch" and "Spanisch und Portugiesisch", undeclinated, but that would then refer to the languages, and hence it would have to be "Andere Europäische Sprachen" (languages) and "Andere Sprachen". Or, if it is indeed ethnicity/people ("Germans" instead of "German") it would be to be "Deutsche", "Spanier und Portugiesen", "Andere Europäer" and "Andere".
And that's why I got a D in German GCSE.
I'll edit the map to correct it all. Can I ask what "Kapitänschaft" would mean, though? Also, would "Maien" be a suitable alternative to "Mayien/Mayia"? I'd rather they weren't all just called "*something*land".
Im... not so sure actually. Ive never seen it in an islands name, in any case. I think its used either as poetic term for islands, or for small islands, or both or something. Now, if its also Dutch for proper islands, it works to have it also be in an islands name, I guess, but as said, note "Eilands" declination and grammatical gender
Well the German language is meant to absorb the Dutch language ITTL to the point where the Dutch maintain a regional accent and slang but little else. I wanted "Eiland" to be one of the words that is used as it was in Dutch, to show the Dutch influence.
Thanks for the help!
One would say 'Captaincy', but funnily enough it appears the official term in German is actually Kapitanat nowadays (though in Swedish it is Kaptenskap, and in Dutch it is Kapiteinschap).
Translating 'schaft' is, er, a bit hard, at least in the suffix-usage. I think -cy would be the suffix in English with the closest usage/meaning to it.
Susano
Banned
Meh, I chose a random suffix Actually, -city is -zität, now that I think of it, so -ity would be -ität, so Kapitänität, but yes, Kapitänat works, too.
As for Mayien/Maien.. well, the Maya are Maya in German, too. As said, Mayien would sound odd because of the vowel contraction. How about inserting a consonan and Making Mayanien out of it?
Actually, -city is -zität, now that I think of it, so -ity would be -ität, so Kapitänität, but yes, Kapitänat works, too. As for Mayien/Maien.. well, the Maya are Maya in German, too. As said, Mayien would sound odd because of the vowel contraction. How about inserting a consonan and Making Mayanien out of it?
Meh, I chose a random suffix
As for Mayien/Maien.. well, the Maya are Maya in German, too. As said, Mayien would sound odd because of the vowel contraction. How about inserting a consonan and Making Mayanien out of it?
I would prefer Mayaland, myself.
Krall
Banned
Meh, I chose a random suffix
Damn it, why can't the whole world speak English?!
I like "Kapitänität", but I'm not sure it would mean "Captaincy". In English the -ity suffix makes the word a quality something or someone can possess. "Captainity" would be a (made up) word for describing the required qualities of a captain, so someone with a lot of 'captainity' would make a good captain.
Okey-dokey.
What about "Ometepea", though? The "-ea" is derived from "-ia", so it has the same problem. I don't think "Ometepeien", perhaps I could just leave it as "Ometepe".
Susano
Banned
Oh, Capitaincy, not Capitainity?Damn it, why can't the whole world speak English?!
I like "Kapitänität", but I'm not sure it would mean "Captaincy". In English the -ity suffix makes the word a quality something or someone can possess. "Captainity" would be a (made up) word for describing the required qualities of a captain, so someone with a lot of 'captainity' would make a good captain.
Gah, why cant the whole world speak German!
Meh, whatever, choose a random suffix
But yes, the -at suffix (as in Khanat - Khanate) denoting a territory of rule would work best then, I guess, so Kapitänat, as LI has said.Eh, I thought Ometepea was a greek word and hence left it at that
Hm, Ometepei? Though the -ei suffix is used for rather empty and backwards areas, like Mongolei/Mongolia, Wallachei/Wallachia (sorry, Romanians, the area was thought of as empty and backwards back then
)... I mean, its not a direct translation rule, more of a rule of thumb...Krall
Banned
Oh, Capitaincy, not Capitainity?
Gah, why cant the whole world speak German!
Meh, whatever, choose a random suffix
Okay, I'll use that then.
Eh, I thought Ometepea was a greek word and hence left it at that
Hm, Ometepei? Though the -ei suffix is used for rather empty and backwards areas, like Mongolei/Mongolia, Wallachei/Wallachia (sorry, Romanians, the area was thought of as empty and backwards back then
Heh, okay then.
Is that pronounced "Ometepay" or "Ometepai" (to rhyme with the letter "I")?
The original plan for Jefferson Territory, which would become the state of Colorado, which had the same width but extended from 35 N to 42 N. I lobbed off the bit that was already part of the state of Texas since that would be unconstitutional.
Darn you federal government, we could've had all the useful bits of Wyoming!
Also, I spelled Fort Collins wrong. It was the butterfly effect, I tell you!
Based on Michael Orgill’s “Many Rubicons”, collected in Sandra Ley’s “Beyond Time:”
It’s 1984, 33 years after Douglas MacArthur’s invasion of Manchuria, and free elections are finally being held again.
The Last War (1951-1960) chewed up the USSR and China pretty badly, but the US was ultimately unable to successfully occupy and pacify half of Eurasia. After the wreck of Europe, the rapid collapse of two Russian and three Chinese “democratic, popular governments” created by US forces, ten years and millions of deaths, (American, that is – Soviet and Chinese casualties were well over the 100 million mark by that time) hostility to the war at home exploded to the point that it made OTL’s Vietnam war protests look like an anti-Whaling sit-in by the Braintree Ladies Orchid Appreciation Society.
The establishment of martial law and the postponement of elections did not go over well, and the US was forced to withdraw it’s forces from abroad and spend the 60’s fighting what could be called a four-sided civil war. In the meantime, from the ruins of the old Communist regimes arose the Army of World Liberation, a new radical revolutionary movement that before long overran most of the old USSR and China and joined hands with the revolutionary movement in Indochina (the US, after France got nuked, moved forces into its former colonies to prevent Red takeovers.)
The New Menace does not have a national name: it is Chinese as much or more so than Slavic, and simply refers to its dominions as The Liberated Territories. The US refers to them as the “Sino-Soviet Union”, or, in the vulgar vernacular, the “SheenySov”. Not so much a state as an army with a state, the LTs are backward (not that this whole world isn’t backward) but has nukes and ICMBs of their own. There was a brief window of opportunity to “make the rubble bounce” while the US would only “get it’s hair mussed”, but Arthur MacArthur nixed it: he wasn’t adding several hundred million more deaths to his family’s historical responsibilities.
Europe is a mess: the forces of neo-fascism have largely won out over Communist revolution, but this is not necessarily a reassuring thing. US forces returned to Europe after a certain amount of stability returned at home in the early 70’s, but most Europeans remember the US as the morons who kicked the Soviet bear in the nuts and lost maybe two cities to Soviet bombers while half of Europe died in the subsequent conflagration. Even the Eastern Europeans (who recall being nuked by US bombers during the war) only grudgingly accept US forces as a counterbalance to the “Liberated Territories” or Fascist France (expanding into devastated central Europe from the relatively lightly hit south of France, the French “Republic” has nukes and a huuuge chip on it’s shoulder re Americans). Neutrals Finland, Switzerland, and Spain have done alright for themselves: Spain took over Portugal in ’79 when it looked like a successful Red revolution was brewing: they have let most of the Portugese colonial empire go, holding onto, say, only the wealthier oil-rich bits of coastal Angola.
Japan, nuked several times during the US invasion of the USSR, after the last US forces left in ’63, said “NEVER AGAIN” and managed once again one of those remarkable feats of national mobilization, and have successfully rebuilt themselves as a formidable (if somewhat impoverished) military power, allying themselves with such right-wing Asian regimes as Very Hindu India, [1] fascistic Indonesia, and the rump remnant of the last US-backed Chinese regime in Taiwan and Hainan. (The term “Co-Prosperity Sphere” is carefully avoided). Korea was in the gang for a while, but had trouble stomaching an allying with Japan, and gladly switched to a US alliance when said country re-emerged on the international stage in the 70’s.
Both Iraq and Iran ended up with leftist regimes, (Iraq picking up Kuwait while the major powers were otherwise engaged), but cordially detest eachother, making Iraq the one left-wing one-party dictatorship to host US troops.(Which also ensures the oil supply). Israel, left without a superpower sponsor (OTOH, this was somewhat counterbalanced by the lack of a USSR on the other side of the scales) ended taking somewhat extreme steps to strengthen it’s position: there are rather few people of Arab extraction in Israel, while there are rather more people in Jordan than OTL. Syria has been bought off with the Islamic bits of Lebanon (which they’re still trying to digest) and the Egyptians….well, that’s why the Israelis got their own nuke. (The Japanese are quite reasonable about prices).
Africa is a mess – the US made a fairly cack-handed effort to prepare for independence colonies whose European Metropoles had been reduced to radioactive rubble, but after the US turned inward, the end of any support from abroad, plus the massive contraction of international trade, led a number of the more fragile African countries to collapse outright. Now, stability is being restored, by US and Canadian aid, by the more successful warlords, and by LT-backed communist regimes. S. Africa collapsed rather messily in the early 80’s, with successor states ranging from quite civilized (the Cape Republic) to rather ghastly (The Renewed Boerstaadt, or the Peoples Republic Of Azania).
Latin America is poorer and more screwed up than OTL, divided into various lefty regimes and right-wing dictatorships. Brazil promises to give back full self-government to the parts of Uruguay and Paraguy it occupied in its was with Argentina as soon as Argentina liberates it’s bits. Mexico is roughly as OTL in the 80’s: it sells a lot of oil, it’s run by the PRI – and has, unlike OTL, a large population of US expatriates.
Canada, although it lost a good-sized chunk of it’s population when Soviet bombers crossing the pole decided to drop their load and leave for home early, has recuperated and is a power of some importance: for one thing, like Mexico but more so, it got a lot of US refugees during the bad years (they now make up about a third of it’s population) and is currently helping the UK (which lost a _lot_ of people) get back on it’s feet. It also has it’s own nukes – just in case the US goes wacky again.
The US is less populous than OTL, and still a bit shaky politically: there are still Free Christian terrorist groups operating in the Appalachians, and some elements of the Liberty Collective have been accepted into the new governing coalition as a price for peace. Still, most people are sick of fighting, and hope that President-elect Dukakis will be able to heal some of the nation’s wounds – if nobody assassinates him first, anyway.
Bruce
[1] The last war with Pakistan did very little that was good for the tone of political debate.
It’s 1984, 33 years after Douglas MacArthur’s invasion of Manchuria, and free elections are finally being held again.
The Last War (1951-1960) chewed up the USSR and China pretty badly, but the US was ultimately unable to successfully occupy and pacify half of Eurasia. After the wreck of Europe, the rapid collapse of two Russian and three Chinese “democratic, popular governments” created by US forces, ten years and millions of deaths, (American, that is – Soviet and Chinese casualties were well over the 100 million mark by that time) hostility to the war at home exploded to the point that it made OTL’s Vietnam war protests look like an anti-Whaling sit-in by the Braintree Ladies Orchid Appreciation Society.
The establishment of martial law and the postponement of elections did not go over well, and the US was forced to withdraw it’s forces from abroad and spend the 60’s fighting what could be called a four-sided civil war. In the meantime, from the ruins of the old Communist regimes arose the Army of World Liberation, a new radical revolutionary movement that before long overran most of the old USSR and China and joined hands with the revolutionary movement in Indochina (the US, after France got nuked, moved forces into its former colonies to prevent Red takeovers.)
The New Menace does not have a national name: it is Chinese as much or more so than Slavic, and simply refers to its dominions as The Liberated Territories. The US refers to them as the “Sino-Soviet Union”, or, in the vulgar vernacular, the “SheenySov”. Not so much a state as an army with a state, the LTs are backward (not that this whole world isn’t backward) but has nukes and ICMBs of their own. There was a brief window of opportunity to “make the rubble bounce” while the US would only “get it’s hair mussed”, but Arthur MacArthur nixed it: he wasn’t adding several hundred million more deaths to his family’s historical responsibilities.
Europe is a mess: the forces of neo-fascism have largely won out over Communist revolution, but this is not necessarily a reassuring thing. US forces returned to Europe after a certain amount of stability returned at home in the early 70’s, but most Europeans remember the US as the morons who kicked the Soviet bear in the nuts and lost maybe two cities to Soviet bombers while half of Europe died in the subsequent conflagration. Even the Eastern Europeans (who recall being nuked by US bombers during the war) only grudgingly accept US forces as a counterbalance to the “Liberated Territories” or Fascist France (expanding into devastated central Europe from the relatively lightly hit south of France, the French “Republic” has nukes and a huuuge chip on it’s shoulder re Americans). Neutrals Finland, Switzerland, and Spain have done alright for themselves: Spain took over Portugal in ’79 when it looked like a successful Red revolution was brewing: they have let most of the Portugese colonial empire go, holding onto, say, only the wealthier oil-rich bits of coastal Angola.
Japan, nuked several times during the US invasion of the USSR, after the last US forces left in ’63, said “NEVER AGAIN” and managed once again one of those remarkable feats of national mobilization, and have successfully rebuilt themselves as a formidable (if somewhat impoverished) military power, allying themselves with such right-wing Asian regimes as Very Hindu India, [1] fascistic Indonesia, and the rump remnant of the last US-backed Chinese regime in Taiwan and Hainan. (The term “Co-Prosperity Sphere” is carefully avoided). Korea was in the gang for a while, but had trouble stomaching an allying with Japan, and gladly switched to a US alliance when said country re-emerged on the international stage in the 70’s.
Both Iraq and Iran ended up with leftist regimes, (Iraq picking up Kuwait while the major powers were otherwise engaged), but cordially detest eachother, making Iraq the one left-wing one-party dictatorship to host US troops.(Which also ensures the oil supply). Israel, left without a superpower sponsor (OTOH, this was somewhat counterbalanced by the lack of a USSR on the other side of the scales) ended taking somewhat extreme steps to strengthen it’s position: there are rather few people of Arab extraction in Israel, while there are rather more people in Jordan than OTL. Syria has been bought off with the Islamic bits of Lebanon (which they’re still trying to digest) and the Egyptians….well, that’s why the Israelis got their own nuke. (The Japanese are quite reasonable about prices).
Africa is a mess – the US made a fairly cack-handed effort to prepare for independence colonies whose European Metropoles had been reduced to radioactive rubble, but after the US turned inward, the end of any support from abroad, plus the massive contraction of international trade, led a number of the more fragile African countries to collapse outright. Now, stability is being restored, by US and Canadian aid, by the more successful warlords, and by LT-backed communist regimes. S. Africa collapsed rather messily in the early 80’s, with successor states ranging from quite civilized (the Cape Republic) to rather ghastly (The Renewed Boerstaadt, or the Peoples Republic Of Azania).
Latin America is poorer and more screwed up than OTL, divided into various lefty regimes and right-wing dictatorships. Brazil promises to give back full self-government to the parts of Uruguay and Paraguy it occupied in its was with Argentina as soon as Argentina liberates it’s bits. Mexico is roughly as OTL in the 80’s: it sells a lot of oil, it’s run by the PRI – and has, unlike OTL, a large population of US expatriates.
Canada, although it lost a good-sized chunk of it’s population when Soviet bombers crossing the pole decided to drop their load and leave for home early, has recuperated and is a power of some importance: for one thing, like Mexico but more so, it got a lot of US refugees during the bad years (they now make up about a third of it’s population) and is currently helping the UK (which lost a _lot_ of people) get back on it’s feet. It also has it’s own nukes – just in case the US goes wacky again.
The US is less populous than OTL, and still a bit shaky politically: there are still Free Christian terrorist groups operating in the Appalachians, and some elements of the Liberty Collective have been accepted into the new governing coalition as a price for peace. Still, most people are sick of fighting, and hope that President-elect Dukakis will be able to heal some of the nation’s wounds – if nobody assassinates him first, anyway.
Bruce
[1] The last war with Pakistan did very little that was good for the tone of political debate.
- Status