Lancastrian Burgundy?

[Deleted member 204809]

If John, Duke of Bedford had surviving issue with Anne of Burgundy, and some extremely bad luck befalls Mary, Duchess of Cleves such that she has no surviving issue, and Philip the Good and Charles the Bold die at some fortuitous date for the Lancasters could they inherit Burgundy?

 

[Madhukar_Shah]

By the time of Charles the bold your chances are slim to none- the most interesting time for something like this to happen would be sometime in the early 1420s very soon after Bedfords marriage.

If Philip the good dies hairless at the point where Lancastrian control of France is at its strongest, with John succeeding to burgundy jure Uxoris, that massively changes the political situation. There’s no hope in hell of burgundy favouring the dauphin now, so Brittany likely feels it has to stick to the English side as well. There might be suspicion that Philip was killed by Bedford, and I can imagine a good number of his lords defecting to the dauphin- perhaps a good opportunity to confiscate their lands and reassign them to Lancastrian partisans.

If anyone’s usurping Henry VI later down the line, it’ll be the Dukes of Bedford and Burgundy.

Even with a much firmer grip on northern France, I don’t know whether offensive action against the kingdom of bourges becomes anymore feasible.

 

[material_boy]

Philip the Good made plans for his own childless death as early as the 1420s, possibly fearing he'd be assassinated like his father. Anne was only willed Artois, likely since Calais was seen as part of Artois by the French, but was anctually English.

The Cleves marriage being childless still leaves the Bourbon marriage, so maybe Bedford tried to cut a deal with Bourbon to divvy up what had been willed to Cleves between them? Maybe such a deal could bring Bourbon over to the English side, depending at what time you're considering everyone dying off.

 

[Shnurre]

Anne is only third surviving daughter of John the Fearless. So if Philip the Good dies childless, she is behind Mary of Cleves as well as Margaret (who married Arthur de Richemont, constable of France and future duke of Burgundy). There is also Agnes, who is younger than Anne, but is married to future duke of Bourbon and thus also has a strong claim.

But the most importantly there are several male Valois-Burgundians alive. If Philip dies before 1430 there are even two separate surviving lines (of Brabant and of Nevers, the former one dying out in 1430). So if Philip dies without issue the bulk of Burgundian domains would go to these two lines (eventually all going to the hands of Valois-Burgundy-Nevers).

And Bedford in 1420s-1430s is in no position to emulate future Louis XI and grab the inheritance from lawful heirs. Lancastrian France desperately needs Burgundian support (as Lancastrian hold on France out of borders of Normandy is almost fully reliant on Burgundian party; IOTL Paris fell almost immediately after the fallout between English and Burgundians). Even if for some reason Bedford has extra resources ITTL, he would certainly much rather conquer Anjou held by his enemies (and claimed by him personally) than betray his allies and relatives in order to grab some part of Burgundian domains (other than Artois that he gets as a part of marriage contract with Anne)