Violently taking it out of Britain's sphere is impossible, true. They own railways, frigorifics, all in all the critical infrastructure for exports. But the Germans offering a better deal for exports should still cause some competition in the area, which would benefit Argentina in the long run. Already the fact that there's another option should be helpful.
as with Brazil Mussolini seems a better candidate as IOTL Peron(who hasnt risen until the 1950's as minister of Labor) was a Mussolini fanboy and Sarmiento and Rosas were Italophiles
 
as with Brazil Mussolini seems a better candidate as IOTL Peron(who hasnt risen until the 1950's as minister of Labor) was a Mussolini fanboy and Sarmiento and Rosas were Italophiles
Perón isn't likely to get to power without WW2, and even IOTL he came only after it. Sarmiento and Rosas are long dead at this point.
 
Worth mentioning that we're bound to get the Pacific War anyway if events unfold similarly to OTL. That said, it probably won't cross over with the impending war against the USSR unless Japan attacks Germany as well, or something stupid like that.
 
The Italian population in Brazil is much larger than the German population.
Still doesn't change the fact they were a influential group, at least in the south where Vargas is also from and without the whole fiasco of WW2, they wouldn't get the same backlash from OTL(that also affected Italian and Japanese communities)

The issue is that Brazil is a Latin-speaking, Catholic, modern Authoritarian nation, while Germany is pushing towards something which, on paper, is old-fashioned, at least in governance. I feel that Italy would be a more natural friend, especially since many of Italy's friends are also not conventionally fascist.
Maybe, but like I said, Vargas is a opportunist, if he thinks there's a chance for him to get some sort of benefit(especially when it comes to industralizing Brazil) from Germany, he would be more open to do talks with them in exchange for influence or preferrential trade deals, and just because he's courting Germany doesn't mean he can play ball with Italy too and see which one offers the best conditions as Vargas from OTL showed that while he did sympathize with the Axis, once the Americans offered some development and finacing, he went as far as allowing them bases in Brazil showing that ideology doesn't matter as much as real politik did. At the very least, I hope Carlos Larceda will die.
 
Worth mentioning that we're bound to get the Pacific War anyway if events unfold similarly to OTL. That said, it probably won't cross over with the impending war against the USSR unless Japan attacks Germany as well, or something stupid like that.
tbf the pacific war could be stopped if the IJA had their way and they did a northern attack instead to take the far east from the USSR.

but otherwise yeah, Japan seems to be going the same way as per otl.

I just hope Japan keeps Taiwan (or Taiwan isn't given to China) and the Kurils this time round.
 
As you mentioned, timing is a problem, and even positive trade relations wouldn't have wedged Argentina out of Britain's sphere fast enough to prevent that. What I'm looking towards instead now is the possibility of Argentina peeling themselves off of Britain, either with active German aid or not, by taking advantage of certain geopolitical shifts in the late 30's and early 40's which will keep Britain distracted and Germany more at the forefront.



The issue is that Brazil is a Latin-speaking, Catholic, modern Authoritarian nation, while Germany is pushing towards something which, on paper, is old-fashioned, at least in governance. I feel that Italy would be a more natural friend, especially since many of Italy's friends are also not conventionally fascist.

Another hot-button region I see is Venezuela, which is run by a military dictatorship, has enormous oil reserves, and which claims territory from its neighbours, notably the Dutch in the ABC Islands and British Guyana.

Aside from those, my knowledge of critical junctures and the influence of WW2 and its lead-ups IRL in the region is sadly lacking. The only other major factor I know in the region is the United Fruit Company, which, while undoubtedly affected by changes in the global market brought about by war, also wouldn't be massively different without some major divergences.
Speaking of which, in terms of Germans who live in the Western Hemisphere, let's not forget the country that has the largest German population of all - the United States.

Wouldn't focusing efforts on getting on the USAs goods idea be the top priority of any sane German foreign policy.
 
Speaking of which, in terms of Germans who live in the Western Hemisphere, let's not forget the country that has the largest German population of all - the United States.

Wouldn't focusing efforts on getting on the USAs goods idea be the top priority of any sane German foreign policy.
Tbh, the German American community never really recovered from the whole Anti German Panic in WW1, especially once the USA entered the war, so the great majority of them seem themselves as Americans first and foremost. Plus Germany before WW2 did have at least a neutral image in the USA as the Americans did try to keep good relations but a mixture of Roosevelt becoming president and drifting apart from them as well as increasing German aggression killed that, here with no Hitler it's likely they will continue to have at least a decent relationship but Roosevelt would still back the Brits first and foremost.

tbf the pacific war could be stopped if the IJA had their way and they did a northern attack instead to take the far east from the USSR.
I've always seen this talked about but there's never really something that is sustained when looking at the situation: Japan never really had a serious intention of going against the USSR for a variety of reasons, mainly things like their true focus being on China, the bloody nose they got at skirmish battles, the fact the navy grew more in influence and success and that the military still had a lingering memory of how close the Russo Japanese war was of ending in disaster for the Japanese if it had not been for other powers brokering a peace treaty, and that was when Russia was much less industrial and militarized, here them trying an all out war is just asking for the Soviets to flood into Korea and Manchuria and directly aid Mao's army.


OTL especially showed that as the Japanese had the perfect window for invading the USSR during Barbarossa... But never did, no matter how closer and closer the USSR seemed to being defeated, they never provoked them and even went out of their way of not bombing US ships with landlease to the Soviets plus the whole debate about how Japan was very much influenced into surrender once the Soviets had rennounced their neutrality pact and started attacking at Korea and Manchuria because they feared the USSR more than America. So all things considered, "Japan tries to conquer the USSR" was never a serious goal for them and one that unless there was a total collapse of the Soviet state, they wouldn't move in for correct fears that Soviet invasion could not only mean invasion of Japan but also give the perfect casus beli for the USSR to invade Korea, Manchuria and aid Mao and his guerrilas.
 
tbf the pacific war could be stopped if the IJA had their way and they did a northern attack instead to take the far east from the USSR.
Not an option after the disaster at Khalkhin Gol. Unless butterflies have killed/sacked Tojo and allowed a proper combined arms doctrine to develop, the IJA is going to be more of a liability than an asset to a two-front war in Russia.
 
I've always seen this talked about but there's never really something that is sustained when looking at the situation: Japan never really had a serious intention of going against the USSR for a variety of reasons, mainly things like their true focus being on China, the bloody nose they got at skirmish battles, the fact the navy grew more in influence and success and that the military still had a lingering memory of how close the Russo Japanese war was of ending in disaster for the Japanese if it had not been for other powers brokering a peace treaty, and that was when Russia was much less industrial and militarized, here them trying an all out war is just asking for the Soviets to flood into Korea and Manchuria and directly aid Mao's army.
tbf I think that getting a pacific war is more likely than fighting in the USSR.
OTL especially showed that as the Japanese had the perfect window for invading the USSR during Barbarossa... But never did, no matter how closer and closer the USSR seemed to being defeated, they never provoked them and even went out of their way of not bombing US ships with landlease to the Soviets plus the whole debate about how Japan was very much influenced into surrender once the Soviets had rennounced their neutrality pact and started attacking at Korea and Manchuria because they feared the USSR more than America. So all things considered, "Japan tries to conquer the USSR" was never a serious goal for them and one that unless there was a total collapse of the Soviet state, they wouldn't move in for correct fears that Soviet invasion could not only mean invasion of Japan but also give the perfect casus beli for the USSR to invade Korea, Manchuria and aid Mao and his guerrilas.
Japan was deep in the Sino-Japanese war at that point, so I do think saying 'they could've dealt with the Soviets before Barbarossa in otl' is flawed. If the Second Sino-Japanese war didn't happen (or didn't happen I think the Japanese could've went for the USSR instead.

I do think that it is more implausible than not, as the Japanese would have seen the Chinese as weak and acted accordingly.
Not an option after the disaster at Khalkhin Gol. Unless butterflies have killed/sacked Tojo and allowed a proper combined arms doctrine to develop, the IJA is going to be more of a liability than an asset to a two-front war in Russia.
hmm makes sense.

I'm just thinking if its possible for the Japanese to not go for China at all...
 
Not an option after the disaster at Khalkhin Gol. Unless butterflies have killed/sacked Tojo and allowed a proper combined arms doctrine to develop, the IJA is going to be more of a liability than an asset to a two-front war in Russia.
On that note, considering the Kodoha were the main advocates of striking north, this raises an interesting question about how the Kodoha vs Toseiha power struggle proceeds ITTL.
 
I just realised that we've now got 1K posts. Congrats and thanks, everyone!
Violently taking it out of Britain's sphere is impossible, true. They own railways, frigorifics, all in all the critical infrastructure for exports. But the Germans offering a better deal for exports should still cause some competition in the area, which would benefit Argentina in the long run. Already the fact that there's another option should be helpful.
What was Argentina's chief export in this era? I ask because I've already taken some liberties with the trade agreements with Denmark and the other minor nations (sorry Danes) by hand-waving the deals as being beneficial on the basis that they are assuredly having SOME level of trade with Germany. But with middling and bigger powers it is trickier, since I am not sure which countries' chief exports will be compatible and absent from the German one (aside from some strategic resources like in Yugoslavia).
Worth mentioning that we're bound to get the Pacific War anyway if events unfold similarly to OTL. That said, it probably won't cross over with the impending war against the USSR unless Japan attacks Germany as well, or something stupid like that.
I find it funny that many people are assuming that there will be a final showdown against the Soviets. I hope you guys realise that I could also do an alternate Cold War, have the Soviets collapse, or even have the USSR slowly reform into a Leftist but still compatible European nation.
I just hope Japan keeps Taiwan (or Taiwan isn't given to China) and the Kurils this time round.
Why is that? Kurils I get, but why Taiwan?
Wouldn't focusing efforts on getting on the USAs goods idea be the top priority of any sane German foreign policy.
The German minority is pretty well-assimilated by this point. Plus, the official government has no tremendous investment in them. At most it would get the attention of Göring, but his focus is a bit more concentrated on the German groups he can make better use of to expand core German territory and interests.
 
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What was Argentina's chief export in this era? I ask because I've already taken some liberties with the trade agreements with Denmark and the other minor nations (sorry Danes) by hand-waving the deals as being beneficial on the basis that they are assuredly having SOME level of trade with Germany. But with middling and bigger powers it is trickier, since I am not sure which countries' chief exports will be compatible and absent from the German one (aside from some strategic resources like in Yugoslavia).
Beef and grain IIRC. They're an agricultural nation without a lot of strategic resources at the moment.
 
What was Argentina's chief export in this era? I ask because I've already taken some liberties with the trade agreements with Denmark and the other minor nations (sorry Danes) by hand-waving the deals as being beneficial on the basis that they are assuredly having SOME level of trade with Germany. But with middling and bigger powers it is trickier, since I am not sure which countries' chief exports will be compatible and absent from the German one (aside from some strategic resources like in Yugoslavia).
Meat and agricultural products, both of which Germany imports.
 
What was Argentina's chief export in this era? I ask because I've already taken some liberties with the trade agreements with Denmark and the other minor nations (sorry Danes) by hand-waving the deals as being beneficial on the basis that they are assuredly having SOME level of trade with Germany. But with middling and bigger powers it is trickier, since I am not sure which countries' chief exports will be compatible and absent from the German one (aside from some strategic resources like in Yugoslavia).
Beef AFAIR. The image of gaucho's on the pampa's is as iconic for Argentina as cowboys and the prairies are for the US. The UK was a massive importer of food, and Argentina basically provided the cheap beef that allowed for Britains growing urbanized population to be well fed.
 
Tbh, the German American community never really recovered from the whole Anti German Panic in WW1, especially once the USA entered the war, so the great majority of them seem themselves as Americans first and foremost.
Woodrow Wilson strikes again, he said, "Any man who carries a hyphen about with him, carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic when he gets ready."

Lynched German Americans like Robert Prager. Banned the playing of Beethoven (a Hun), changing the name of sauerkraut to Liberty cabbage, and seeking to prohibit the teaching of the German language in the public schools "Speech of Hated Hun Forbidden,".

And the Committee on Public Information,

Secret police organizations and Brown Shirts.
American Protection League, Anti Yellow Dog League was a youth organization composed of school boys over the age of ten, who sought out disloyal persons. Sedition Slammers, Knights of Liberty, the Terrible Threateners, Boy Spies of America, National Security League and American Defense Society.
 
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Why is that? Kurils I get, but why Taiwan?
The Taiwanese colony is treated very different than the other colonies, and it is the colony Japan has held onto the longest. Japan basically built a bunch of stuff that allowed Taiwan to become a rich agricultural exporter, and the Japanese weren't as brutal to the Japanese as the Koreans or other Chinese. Taiwanese attitudes to Japan as a result are a lot more friendly than Korea and China.

I do think Japan keeping Taiwan in lieu of a Pacific war is not plausible tho.

Maybe we just get Taiwanese independence instead? A hokkien speaking Taiwan would be interesting too...
 
The Taiwanese colony is treated very different than the other colonies, and it is the colony Japan has held onto the longest. Japan basically built a bunch of stuff that allowed Taiwan to become a rich agricultural exporter, and the Japanese weren't as brutal to the Japanese as the Koreans or other Chinese. Taiwanese attitudes to Japan as a result are a lot more friendly than Korea and China.

I do think Japan keeping Taiwan in lieu of a Pacific war is not plausible tho.

Maybe we just get Taiwanese independence instead? A hokkien speaking Taiwan would be interesting too...
How positive were the opinions in Taiwan during WW2 IRL? Was it generally more positive or generally more negative? For example, was there a constant risk of a revolt against the Japanese the way that there was in Korea?
 
How positive were the opinions in Taiwan during WW2 IRL? Was it generally more positive or generally more negative? For example, was there a constant risk of a revolt against the Japanese the way that there was in Korea?
there were no uprisings during WWII, and a lot more Taiwanese were fighting under the Japanese army than the Koreans, and Taiwanese were able to get Japanese citizenship, which was much harder for Koreans.

All evidence points to Taiwanese having better treatment under Japan than Korea. I think its both good and bad, as with most colonial experiences, but in Taiwan's case Japan actually tried and had good results.

I think Taiwan would be the most interesting if its its own thing ittl, but either way is interesting as Taiwan will always be in-between China and Japan culturally and prob will move the other way when being forced in one direction.
 
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How positive were the opinions in Taiwan during WW2 IRL? Was it generally more positive or generally more negative? For example, was there a constant risk of a revolt against the Japanese the way that there was in Korea?
there were no uprisings during WWII, and a lot more Taiwanese were fighting under the Japanese army than the Koreans, and Taiwanese were able to get Japanese citizenship, which was much harder for Koreans.

All evidence points to Taiwanese having better treatment under Japan than Korea. I think its both good and bad, as with most colonial experiences, but in Taiwan's case Japan actually tried and had good results.

I think Taiwan would be the most interesting if its its own thing ittl, but either way is interesting as Taiwan will always be in-between China and Japan culturally and prob will move the other way when being forced in one direction.
What Quinkana said, to the point that many people had nostalgia for Japanese rule after the KMT took over (though that was also due to KMT corruption).

I don't think it's unrealistic for Japan to keep Taiwan ITTL, myself, unless they get into a war with the US. If it's just China, Japan's the dominant naval power, and you need major naval/ampohibious capabilities to take Taiwan. I'd say Taiwan could become a Prefecture in its own right by the modern era.
 
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