DBWI: Should the CCP be honoured for it's actions in the Second World War?

[A Piece of History]

I live in Shaanxi and there is something of a bizarre nostalgia for the days of Mao Zedong and the CCP, who used Shaanxi, Gansu, Ningxia as their base of operations during the War of Resistance against Japan. As the grandson of a KMT veteran, I find it a bit nauseous.

Just recently, a high school I used to attend fired one of their teachers after he was recorded on video saying...

"The Kuomintang attempted to suppress the CCP for the sole purpose of holding onto power. They blockaded the People's Liberation Army to starve it to submission, but despite this, they waged the Hundred Regiments Offensive, which severely damaged the enemy's infrastructure. For this, Peng Denhuai should be honoured as one of China's great generals"

A editorial that I read from a government-owned newspaper was keen to remind to remind everyone this is the same 'People's Liberation Army' who, after the end of the War of Resistance, restarted the Chinese Civil War with the intention of overthrowing the government, only to be crushed in a decisive offensive in 1947.

Now, I don't doubt that the Red Army did some good in the war in the form of guerrilla warfare and the aforementioned Hundred Regiments Offensive, but I can't ignore the fact that this is the same faction that attempted to bring down the government of the Republic of China, both before and after the Civil War. They only ceased fighting with the National Revolutionary Army because there was a bigger enemy to fight.

But, what do you think? Should the People's Liberation Army and by definition, the Chinese Communist Party, be remembered for their actions against the Japanese or should they remain vilified as traitors to the Chinese state and people?

OOC: Everything that the CCP participated in during the Chinese Civil War and beforehand in OTL is still canon in this ATL. The only difference is that it never won the Chinese Civil War.

 

[Resurgam]

Oh, yeah, I've been hearing about that. People who say the CCP embodied some noble, great cause and that if only they'd won it'd be a better world...

Well, to be fair, it's the victors that write history. I'd imagine things would be quite different if the Japanese had defeated your country.

 

[Whiteshore]

Should the People's Liberation Army and by definition, the Chinese Communist Party, be remembered for their actions against the Japanese or should they remain vilified as traitors to the Chinese state and people?

Well, the People's Liberation Army and the Chinese Communist Party should be acknowledged for their resistance against the Japanese during the Second Sino-Japanese War, unlike certain factions of the Kuomintang, if you know what I mean by that (OOC: An oblique reference to the Wang Jingwei Regime).

 

[Mister Abbadon]

I'm not a communist (obviously) and I'm also not Chinese but I do think that the Comunists and Nationalists deserve credit for fighting the war, even if the Communists weren't exactly saints. Just like the US downplaying the role of the Soviet Union in WW2 isnt right so is China downplaying the CCPs efforts to oust the Communists.

 

[Tales Weaver]

Well, the People's Liberation Army and the Chinese Communist Party should be acknowledged for their resistance against the Japanese during the Second Sino-Japanese War,

Mao Zedong once sold military intelligence to japan in purpose of weakening the KMT. They don't look like a resistance to me.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

Peng Dehuai's Hundred Regiments Offensive is worthy of immense praise, but afterwards Mao ordered CCP forces to not directly engage the Japanese again. Given that, and that Peng defected to the Nationalists at the start of the Second Civil War, I'm not sure such acts by individuals within the CCP should be used to lionize the CCP as a whole.

 

[Joseph890]

Peng Dehuai only joined the nationalists because he was on the losing side of a very vocal disagreement with Mao, The fact that he was under extreme house restrictions after the end of the Civil War proves that he wasn’t trusted by the nationalist government. This is in spite of all of his accomplishments in making the Chinese army into a modern force.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

Peng Dehuai only joined the nationalists because he was on the losing side of a very vocal disagreement with Mao, The fact that he was under extreme house restrictions after the end of the Civil War proves that he wasn’t trusted by the nationalist government. This is in spite of all of his accomplishments in making the Chinese army into a modern force.

I mean would you put much trust in a man who had previously defected from your army and fought against you for decades?

 

[TimTurner]

Mao's plan must have been to take advantage of the KMT tiring itself against Japan, then defeat them with Soviet arms.
Cowardly but clever.

 

[Dolan]

CCP was broken soon after Mao's death at the bombing run of Anhui. They are, for all rethorics, is actually closer to Mao's cult of personality, especially later on. Stalin did tried to promote other communist leaders in China, but none was as successful as Mao.

 

[Cryhavoc101]

I understand that the suppression of the CCP forces was a necessary evil in order for China to recover into the 50s and 60s but now a near lifetime away from that time the Republic of China no longer needs to be wary of the facts of that time.

Ultimately the truth will out.

I for one do not see any advantage to those exposing the communist ideal in China today if all of the fact good and bad regarding the CCP forces during the great war of resistance are acknowledged.

 

[Whiteshore]

Peng Dehuai only joined the nationalists because he was on the losing side of a very vocal disagreement with Mao, The fact that he was under extreme house restrictions after the end of the Civil War proves that he wasn’t trusted by the nationalist government. This is in spite of all of his accomplishments in making the Chinese army into a modern force.

I mean would you put much trust in a man who had previously defected from your army and fought against you for decades?

Besides, he was instrumental in ensuring the KMT's left-wing was protected from Chiang's persecution, which was a condition of his defection that was only released a few years ago.

 

[Joseph890]

I mean would you put much trust in a man who had previously defected from your army and fought against you for decades?

I agree that caution was necessary but some of the measures that the government used to supervise him were extremely odd to say the least. They took apart and put together his house the a total of four times over his imprisonment. They had close to 200 armed man who had orders to kill him if he stepped out of his home with out permission for the government.All of his neighbors were forced off of their land so the government could build a giant wall around his house.

 

[TimTurner]

what is the totality of the CPC legacy?

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

I agree that caution was necessary but some of the measures that the government used to supervise him were extremely odd to say the least. They took apart and put together his house the a total of four times over his imprisonment. They had close to 200 armed man who had orders to kill him if he stepped out of his home with out permission for the government.All of his neighbors were forced off of their land so the government could build a giant wall around his housek all of his neighbors were forced off of their land so the government could build a giant wall around his house.

Yeah some of that was excessive. That said, "Peng Dehuai Walled City" is now a baller living history site which is well worth the price of admission.

 

[Kingfish Chris]

I do recall that in Korea, Kim Il-Sung along with his Hardline/Stalinist Faction of Communists (Which clashed with Pak Hon-yong's Moderate Faction of Communists) are seen as Heroes for fighting the Japanese despite their post-war attempt to overthrow the Quadrumvirate Government lead by Kim Koo, Syngamn Rhee, Kim Kyu-Sik and Yo Un-hyung which saw the assassination of Syngman Rhee.

Although Mao did collude with the Japanese to weaken the KMT. As well I do recall Communists frequently clash with KMT Forces. Whereas in Korea, it was all a fully unified effort freeing Korea from Japanese rule.

 

[AltoRegnant]

I do recall that in Korea, Kim Il-Sung along with his Hardline/Stalinist Faction of Communists (Which clashed with Pak Hon-yong's Moderate Faction of Communists) are seen as Heroes for fighting the Japanese despite their post-war attempt to overthrow the Quadrumvirate Government lead by Kim Koo, Syngamn Rhee, Kim Kyu-Sik and Yo Un-hyung which saw the assassination of Syngman Rhee.

Although Mao did collude with the Japanese to weaken the KMT. As well I do recall Communists frequently clash with KMT Forces. Whereas in Korea, it was all a fully unified effort freeing Korea from Japanese rule.

The Korean communists were also more willing to compromise. They convinced the RoK to do things like socialize medicine and have a strong hike on taxes for the top 10%.
The ccp was "mao or out."

If the CCP had won, I guarantee the Americans would have been far more conservative and aggressive. OTL, when various central American countries mad American fruit companies give back unused land, some of them wanted the us to intervene. Eisenhower told them to come back when they had a good reason

 

[Kingfish Chris]

I would also argue that in Vietnam's case, despite the Communists losing the Vietnamese Civil War, Ho Chi Minh is still seen as a hero kinda like in Korea's case with Kim Il-Sung despite attempting to trigger a Communist Civil War and overthrow the Korean Government.

 

[Tamara]

What do you guys think the world would have been like if the CCP has ended up in power? Not advocating for this, just wondering.

 

[AltoRegnant]

What do you guys think the world would have been like if the CCP has ended up in power? Not advocating for this, just wondering.

Bad. the KMT, while not perfect, were decent on equality. and they let britain permanently buy hong kong in the eighties, since the people were predominantly pro-britain. the CCP were first and foremost, a Han army for a Han communist state. Even in manchuria they were controversial on good days, and that's where they were based and therefore on their best behavior.

Not to mention a communist mega-state in china would send the US into Overcorrection Mode, so they'd be more aggressive in latin america-i.e in Guatemala, when they took unused land from the american banana companies, the US wouldn't just give them a slap on the wrist and ask the companies be compensated at 120% value, they'd freak and stage a coup, almost guaranteed. Similarly, there probably wouldn't be the 'American Health Administration' that covers our medical, same with the university costs, but i can't remember what organization is in charge of that