An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

[Evilprodigy]

Oh yeah, my mistake, wasn't it under the emperors, they were seen as God's representative?

The Byzantine Emperor briefly held the title of Vicar of Christ back when caesaropapism was the hip thing in the fifth to sixth (seventh?) centuries but they very much kept the pre-Christian ideals of the imperial office. The exercise of imperial power was an inherently secular thing while religious titles such as Pontifex Maximus and Vicar of Christ were technically separate titles with different authorities that eventually were adopted by the Pope and other major bishops and patriarchs to be God's representative on earth.

 

[JSC]

Eight hundred thousand dead.

Holy shit that's brutal. That's about 3% of the pre-war population.

but not those of the Syrian rebels, although the loyalists are counted

Even more of the population since from the story the rebelling population was large and gutted by the time of the peace treaty with the Ottomans.

As recent as 2015, discussions about some sort of European Union died as Constantinople made it clear that ‘we have experienced Europe united, and every time its purpose has been to try and kill us’.

So we know Rome is strong enough relative to "Latin Europe" that they can kill a deal just by threatening war over it. This could mean Rome is stronger than the USSR was at its height relative to Europe but more likely means there is no USA analogue that can act as a counter-balance to Rhome in Europe. Regardless the Roman sphere in Europe must remain strong and robust right up to the present day.

Thessaloniki, with the concurrence of the Kephale, passes a law that no German or Pole may spend the night within the city walls, although they may visit during daylight hours. While the area barred today is restricted to the area bound by the 17th century defenses, a fraction of the modern city, it is still enforced today.

That's just petty and funny.

The Great Latin War also helps to enforce a Roman penchant for brutality that is particularly evident during the middle third of the seventeenth century. The classical Romans literally had a word for killing every tenth inhabitant (decimate) and that spirit has been revived

This does not bode well for the Idwaits and Ottomans as the most likely recipient of this newfound Roman brutality coming in 1641. Also doesn't bode well for Italy or Poland when Rome comes to pay them a visit in 1636. I've said before I think a city could get the Carthage treatment before this war ends. For geo-political reasons Germany is likely out but...Warsaw?!? No one in area to stop Rome/Wallachia/Novogrod in taking their time and Polands best armies/officers and their king are all dead/prisoners.

In the coming decades, as a new equilibrium is established and Rhomania feels more secure regarding its survival and prosperity (although bickering on the edges of empire never goes away), the brutality dials back down.

So it looks like this is the last time Rome ever faces an existential threat. Good for them...probably bad for a lot of neighbours.

 

[Lascaris]

Depending on how the genocides go it is entirely possible Rhomania in 2015 will have borderline identical boundaries to 1635. Complete depopulation of Upper Macedonia and its now recolonization by presumably ethnic Greeks, the almost complete assimilation of Turks, Bulgarians, and possibly Albanians (I am unsure about them but would not be surprised if they are all akin to the Arvanites of OTL) into Greek culture, the total integration of Armenians to Rhoman society (akin to the French and Italian Swiss detailed in Benedict Anderson's Imagined Communities), and the ethnic cleansing of the Levant are all powerful forces for long-term internal stability into the Age of Nationalism. Where the boundary between Greek and Slavic or Arabic, as well as Armenian and Iranian, lies will roughly demarcate where Rhomania's territory will extend to. Any further conquests are likely to be reversed by 2015 without significant expenditure of resources, follow up genocide, and significant amounts of time they don't have.

Leaving aside the imperial trappings, practically the empire is a nation state at this point, Greeks are probably making over 75% of the total population of the core territories if not more with assimilation still going on. The despotates are probably a different matter, in Egypt and Carthage Greeks are unlikely to be making more that 5-10% of the population tops. Sicily is likely the one closest given the large Greek populations in South Italy and Sicily in OTL at the time and the hugely more favourable situation for them TTL.

 

[TheWanderingReader]

You know if we were to give Rhome EU4 ideas they'd practically be if the Ottomans, the Russians and the Prussians had a three-way and produced such a OP monstrocity of a nation that anyone in TTL playing as Rhome would have a cake-walk in their playthroughs if they ever survive the War of the Five Emperors, the Tenth Crusade, the Time of Troubles and the War of Romsn sucession events, and that's not taking into account on whatever conflict that comes next Basileus has cooked up.

This brief look into the modern world has me believe Rhome has their own pact to counter this united Europe proposition especially if they refer to Rhome as an Other (Haw! ASOIAF in TTL is going to be hilarious), this status as a pariah and possible boogeyman has me believe Rhome's allies not only includes the Orthodox alliance and (possibly) Mexico but also possibly her (former?) colonies. I'm gonna take something from my bare bones Rome alt history timeline and theorize that a Roman Commonwealth of Nations made up of former territories and (possibly) colonies ends up happening probably sometime after THE Great War occurs. Modern Rhome certainly is quite a xenophobic nation alright, I'd hate to be a European tourist in that day and age.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

You know if we were to give Rhome EU4 ideas they'd practically be if the Ottomans, the Russians and the Prussians had a three-way and produced such a OP monstrocity of a nation that anyone in TTL playing as Rhome would have a cake-walk in their playthroughs if they ever survive the War of the Five Emperors, the Tenth Crusade, the Time of Troubles and the War of Romsn sucession events, and that's not taking into account on whatever conflict that comes next Basileus has cooked up.

This brief look into the modern world has me believe Rhome has their own pact to counter this united Europe proposition especially if they refer to Rhome as an Other (Haw! ASOIAF in TTL is going to be hilarious), this status as a pariah and possible boogeyman has me believe Rhome's allies not only includes the Orthodox alliance and (possibly) Mexico but also possibly her (former?) colonies. I'm gonna take something from my bare bones Rome alt history timeline and theorize that a Roman Commonwealth of Nations made up of former territories and (possibly) colonies ends up happening probably sometime after THE Great War occurs. Modern Rhome certainly is quite a xenophobic nation alright, I'd hate to be a European tourist in that day and age.

I'd have to say I agree that the Rhoman world certainly would be a seperate definition to the rest - whether this is done out of a sort of "My Backyard" isolationism, or because it is a pariah, I'm not entirely sure.

I can see a self-imposed sphere of influence that the Rhomans protect fiercely, and it is almost certainly what would provoke them into action. (There was a fantastic flash-forward that isn't canon, but I can see it still being indicative)

Essentially, this is the period that establishes the Rhoman sphere long-term, and I think it'll be hard to invade its politics. i.e. the Romans won't tolerate ANY attempts of nationalism in their colonies, even if the rest of the region is, don't try to reorder their sphere. Heck, I could see a 1900s Roman Empire only declaring war on another power on the grounds of "You funded rebels, in our ally, accept this demand or you will face our wrath. You have two days". Otherwise being largely disinterested in other affairs. Mix of the siege mentality, and the pure arrogance to brook no challenge to their system. Perhaps that is why there is still an Emperor - it works still.

 

[Evilprodigy]

Leaving aside the imperial trappings, practically the empire is a nation state at this point, Greeks are probably making over 75% of the total population of the core territories if not more with assimilation still going on. The despotates are probably a different matter, in Egypt and Carthage Greeks are unlikely to be making more that 5-10% of the population tops. Sicily is likely the one closest given the large Greek populations in South Italy and Sicily in OTL at the time and the hugely more favourable situation for them TTL.

This is part of why I brought up Benedict Anderson's Imagined Communities. It has a really good chapter on how nation-states as a concept are made and one of my favourites are his chapters on Switzerland's integration of French and Italians, as well as his argument for print-capitalism. He mainly says that borders and nations are a top-down imposition and uses Switzerland as a case where during the age of nationalism a country could have three very different cultures and languages within it that all share kinship with a neighbouring country far more powerful than it, yet never suffered seriously from the development of the nation-state and instead was able to amalgamate into a common Swiss identity. I feel like the Armenians and Turks in the Rhoman State (which I think is different from the Rhoman Empire in the same way that the French Empire and French Colonial Empire are different, a metropole and a periphery) are analogous to his argument about imposition of boundaries creating nations even if they divide co-linguists. So even though Greek language (which I could make a whole argument about for the Albanians in relation to print-capitalism as Anderson does for Japanese as well as most European languages) and culture are dominant and of a high population percentage the actual unity of population behind the state is far larger. I would not call directly administered Rhoman territory a nation-state, even though it has some superficial resemblance to one, but would instead simply call it a state. Should the Armenians and Turks go the way of the Bulgarians, Albanians, and Macedonians by fully abandoning their self-identity (the single most important part of nationhood as an imagined concept) in favour of a common Greek or Rhoman one I would call the Rhomans a nation-state but as that has not yet happened, and these communities still retain some self-identification as distinct from the dominant culture, language, faith, and community, they are not a nation-state and never will be.

As for the despotates Egypt isn't going anywhere. Like Japan, China, and India there is an ancient history associated with this landscape that gives a common identity to the population there. Even if Greeks are low and you have a smattering of population groups such as Copts, Nile Germans, Arabs, Berbers, Nubians, and more they are all still united by the common ancient history of Egypt and its continuous existence as a polity. Issues in Egypt ITTL are religiously based and not an argument over whether or not one group is 'Egyptian' but what course (read: faith) is right for Egypt. You can see an analogy to this in South Asia, where the early 20th century no one disputed the indianess of another person but they disagreed on the future faith of the sub-continent and how it should look. As a result the country was partitioned and only after that has a separate nationhood even begun to develop in Pakistan and Bangladesh distinct from India as an imposition of the border and other boundaries be they physical, imagined, and economic.

Ironically I think the most nation-state piece of the Rhoman Empire is the despotate of Sicily. Ever since their religious awakening and rally against outsiders they seem to have begun to develop their own culture. I would like to see more information on this subject matter but I understand B444 wishes to reel in his focus on the TL towards Rhomania and their direct concerns. Regardless Sicily, both in its Greekness and its distinction from Italians, has come to embody something very much akin to that of the Norman Kingdom as a state of many peoples under one border that, over time, have come together to make something unique. IOTL that was a Latinesque country due to Norman origins in France and their Catholicism but ITTL is developing (or has developed) more in a Greek way. I could well see Sicily having its own distinct culture in an Austria or Switzerland to Germany sort of way well into the 21st century. So while yes there are more Greek-speakers I would hesitate to call them 'Greeks' unless you are meaningfully referring to a supranational linguistic identity. Nationhood there seems to be less a development of Greek colonization and assimilation but instead the Siceliotes/Italiotes as a cultural syncretism of Greek, Norman, Arabic, Apulian, Neapolitan, Messanian, and Jewish. This would make them highly unified within their own borders, and share some kinship with the Rhomans, but they would retain a wholly distinct identity from the nationhood established to their east.

 

[JSC]

I'd have to say I agree that the Rhoman world certainly would be a seperate definition to the rest - whether this is done out of a sort of "My Backyard" isolationism, or because it is a pariah, I'm not entirely sure.

I can see a self-imposed sphere of influence that the Rhomans protect fiercely, and it is almost certainly what would provoke them into action. (There was a fantastic flash-forward that isn't canon, but I can see it still being indicative)

Essentially, this is the period that establishes the Rhoman sphere long-term, and I think it'll be hard to invade its politics. i.e. the Romans won't tolerate ANY attempts of nationalism in their colonies, even if the rest of the region is, don't try to reorder their sphere. Heck, I could see a 1900s Roman Empire only declaring war on another power on the grounds of "You funded rebels, in our ally, accept this demand or you will face our wrath. You have two days". Otherwise being largely disinterested in other affairs. Mix of the siege mentality, and the pure arrogance to brook no challenge to their system. Perhaps that is why there is still an Emperor - it works still.

I would say Rome isn’t a pariah for the simple reason that they were invited to join the proto-EU. They appear to be the “boogeyman” of sections of Latin society up to the present day but they don’t appear to be isolated.

A rough analogue might be Russia in the 90’s but more powerful.

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

Demetrios still has his work cut out for him, what's interesting is it looks like across the board, everyone is changing. The Triunes are becoming the Evil Empire, the Accord tie tighter, Germany is about to find itself, and Rome lost almost a million people. The only one not experiencing turmoil is the Ottomans living a false peace. It sounds morose but the periods of post trauma, like Rhome after this war, always fascinated me because of what goes on during the rebuild, or in other cases implosion. While not an economist, economics spins my wheels.

How Rhomaoi viewed Sicelotes, either as provincials, or just Sicilian Greeks would determine the future of the despotate come integration. Egypt would be a matter of bureaucracy and how similar and integrated they would be, customs/currency/policing. Speaking of such ideas, I wonder of the interplay between the Russias,

 

[Trevayne]

I wonder what the future Rhoman attitude towards arms control is? I think they might go for something like the Washington Naval Treaty which limited the costs of an arms race without trying to eliminate weapons much more than efforts on nuclear disarmament. "Give up our weapons in this world? Are you mad?" would probably be the Rhoman attitude towards complete nuclear disarmament. I think it is a non-starter, by something like the SALT or START treaties which allow a few thousand warheads might be allowed.

For that matter, given their attitudes towards the Latins, how do the Rhomans feel about MAD? Did they manage to enforce nuclear disarmament on Europe, or do they keep boomers in the Med and Atlantic pointed at Europe?

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

I wonder what the future Rhoman attitude towards arms control is? I think they might go for something like the Washington Naval Treaty which limited the costs of an arms race without trying to eliminate weapons much more than efforts on nuclear disarmament. "Give up our weapons in this world? Are you mad?" would probably be the Rhoman attitude towards complete nuclear disarmament. I think it is a non-starter, by something l;ike the SALT or START treaties which allow a few thousand wargeads might be allowed.

For that matter, given their attitudes towards the Latins, how do the Rhomans feel about MAD? Did they manage to enforce nuclear disarmament on Europe, or do trhey keep boomers in the Med and Atlantic pointed at Europe?

I would imagine they have a half dozen with sealed orders of each capitol and regional centre. Pity the fool entering the eastern Med/ Red sea though with the wrong flag on the sail.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

I wonder what the future Rhoman attitude towards arms control is? I think they might go for something like the Washington Naval Treaty which limited the costs of an arms race without trying to eliminate weapons much more than efforts on nuclear disarmament. "Give up our weapons in this world? Are you mad?" would probably be the Rhoman attitude towards complete nuclear disarmament. I think it is a non-starter, by something l;ike the SALT or START treaties which allow a few thousand wargeads might be allowed.

For that matter, given their attitudes towards the Latins, how do the Rhomans feel about MAD? Did they manage to enforce nuclear disarmament on Europe, or do trhey keep boomers in the Med and Atlantic pointed at Europe?

See, I can see the Romans first reaction to invest absurd quantities of resources on a counter - as in, Mutually Assured Destruction Is Still Destruction. So essentially focusing on detection and counter-rocket technologies. Those are still a problem today, so I don't think it'd be an easy solution, but if you can think of the Iron Dome being used by the Romans, I could see them thinking the same for Nukes.

Alternatively they go for the "We have more" approach, or the "Lets have space weapons then" routes, which.... seem equally plausible and slightly more depressing.

 

[Sir Omega]

It's possible that the modern Rhomans are not necessarily alone, but have a loose regional alliance in Eastern Europe and parts of the Middle East.

 

[Cryostorm]

It's possible that the modern Rhomans are not necessarily alone, but have a loose regional alliance in Eastern Europe and parts of the Middle East.

Oh, almost guaranteed. Probably Ethiopia, Mexico, and Japan as well. In fact that may be one of this world's great power alliances, the Four Emperors Alliance or some such.

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

Oh, almost guaranteed. Probably Ethiopia, Mexico, and Japan as well. In fact that may be one of this world's great power alliances, the Four Emperors Alliance or some such.

Maybe even an Empire encompassing 2/3s of of the sub-continent as well.

Thinking on it, I wonder how China will view the west, sure it took a lump or two in the 16th & 17th C. Japan being close to Rome would have an adverse effect as thats where most of China's pirate problem in the north came from, and it looks like Rhomes beyond-the-straits holdings are the source for its south.

I could even see China turn more inward and look to influence the silk road routes, which could see a shift of wealth to the rural areas in the west, subsidizing the cities on the east coast, due to shift of trade focus. Did any examples of Chinese treasure ships make it to the west? They were huge, but combat wise I'd bet on European vessels, more firepower, but certain techniques for rigging, and transport design. As grain haulers they would be untouchable, some even had ox driven paddle wheels for no-wind scenarios.

 

[sebastiao]

Maybe even an Empire encompassing 2/3s of of the sub-continent as well.

Thinking on it, I wonder how China will view the west, sure it took a lump or two in the 16th & 17th C. Japan being close to Rome would have an adverse effect as thats where most of China's pirate problem in the north came from, and it looks like Rhomes beyond-the-straits holdings are the source for its south.

I could even see China turn more inward and look to influence the silk road routes, which could see a shift of wealth to the rural areas in the west, subsidizing the cities on the east coast, due to shift of trade focus. Did any examples of Chinese treasure ships make it to the west? They were huge, but combat wise I'd bet on European vessels, more firepower, but certain techniques for rigging, and transport design. As grain haulers they would be untouchable, some even had ox driven paddle wheels for no-wind scenarios.

didn´t china declare war on rome in world war 1?,i pretty sure i read that somewhere in the old thread of the age of miracles.
what do you think were the consequeces of that war?

 

[Duke of Nova Scotia]

didn´t china declare war on rome in world war 1?,i pretty sure i read that somewhere in the old thread of the age of miracles.
what do you think were the consequeces of that war?

I feel like there would be some sort of concessions trade and maybe China swearing off some disputed islands. What I think it would mean for Rome and Japan is a more secure and focused position for the now top 2 of 3 players in the Pacific/South China Sea.

Depending on who owns OZ/NZ, it would have greater impact, both ways as one is resource rich and the other has a stories warrior culture and people's that would make a great addition to any empire.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

I feel like there would be some sort of concessions trade and maybe China swearing off some disputed islands. What I think it would mean for Rome and Japan is a more secure and focused position for the now top 2 of 3 players in the Pacific/South China Sea.

Depending on who owns OZ/NZ, it would have greater impact, both ways as one is resource rich and the other has a stories warrior culture and people's that would make a great addition to any empire.

The idea of a Maori client state of the Romans is an epic one that I want so hard. Roman naval might at first, backed with Maori warrior culture and later a Maori navy.

 

[Grammar Kaiser]

didn´t china declare war on rome in world war 1?,i pretty sure i read that somewhere in the old thread of the age of miracles.
what do you think were the consequeces of that war?

The author declared that bit to be non-canon.

 

[Basileus444]

@Soverihn: Yeah, I liked the idea of having certain of the native groups end up being the equals of conquistador descendants (with a lot of intermarrying as generations pass).

@Wolttaire: I do see a modern Rhomania being treated, at least in broad strokes, rather similarly to the way Western Europe treats Russia. Throughout most of the modern era it was constantly argued whether Russia was a European or Asiatic state. It was in the club, but not truly part of it.
(The Soviet Union adds a whole new ball of wax to the mix.)

@Mr.IAmHere: Yeah, that’s just being a petty jerk. The Black Day is a commemoration of the dead. This is just being a douche. Definitely the less attractive side of Rhomania.

@Rui: No, never! That implies Rhomania at some point stopped being great

@AmericaninBeijing: Rhomania is a big neighbor whose opinion can’t be ignored, even if one would like to. Think ‘balance of power’ in the 19th century, such as the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-78 that had Great Britain barging into a Russo-Turk war. I’m sure the Russians would’ve loved it if they could’ve just told the Brits to pound sand, but that wouldn’t have ended well for Russia.

@HopelessSituation: Thank you.

@HanEmpire: That’d probably be part of the Roman argument. “Europe has been united in the past, either under the Roman banner or in a quest to kill the Romans.”

I need to start regularly watching Yes, Minister. I’m not British but I get the humor so much. And the Romans would react that way. Cynicism comes much more naturally than idealism.

@Cryostorm: Obviously I’m being vague on details so as to not tie myself down, but I’m picturing that Rhomania is too big to ignore, even though EU-hopers would like to.

@Praetor98: That’s a nice way of putting it.

@Christian: I think you could say though that Rhomania would share the mental state of the UK as represented by that clip.

@Antony444: I can see him becoming a stock villain, ‘the greediest Latin of them all, which is saying a lot’.

@Curtain Jerker: Nice, I like.

@Aristomenes: It will start insights into mental health. Just look at the bits about Axios Fever. Although I’m not sure how much can be done with early/mid 17th century tech.

@Evilprodigy: I had planned a ‘Roman minorities’ update, but I’m likely going to be expanding it into a look at ethnicities across the whole Empire. There will be bickering on the periphery, but the core lands are safe.

I’m thinking the Armenians will identify as ‘Armenian and Roman’. They’re both, not one or the other. They have their own language and church, which helps a lot in retaining culture, although a lot of Armenians speak Greek and convert to Orthodoxy for social climbing. Your points regarding Switzerland apply perfectly to the Kurds. The Kurds on the Roman side of the border feel a growing Roman connection, whilst the Kurds on the other side feel absolutely no such thing.

@InMediasRes: I just don’t know how they make it so cheap…

@Duke of Nova Scotia: Ha!

The interplays amongst the Russian states is going to be very significant down the road…

I’m of two minds regarding China. On the one hand, it could turn inward and be Fortress China after the battering it has gotten over the last few hundred years (first the Liao, then the Jin, then the Mongols, then the Tieh, then the Mongols again). But it also might want to revive ancient glories and restore the days of Tang before all these humiliations at the hands of barbarians.

A lot of the ships of Roman ship lords are of native designs (Chinese junks, Malay prahus, etc.). This is consistent with OTL, as a lot of European traders used native ships for carrying trade in Asia itself, with the European ships doing the long hauls back to Europe. The Portuguese reached Japan on a Chinese ship with a Chinese crew, for example. For battle, western ships are the best, but a lot of the trade is done with native vessels of varying size.

The Apology: It was in reference to an apology given by the Avignon Papacy to the Roman Empire for the Fourth Crusade during the latter reign of Demetrios Megas. This was at the height of good feelings between the Avignon Papacy and Roman Empire. I admit I’d forgotten about the other one with Pope Julius II regarding the Black Day, but it makes sense the ambassador would only reference the sincere apology.

@emperor joe: Polish sausage…I want.

@Grammar Kaiser: Of course it killed your monarch. It’s called ‘King-slayer’ after all. We wouldn’t want to be accused of false advertising now, would we?

Now could I interest you in our ‘flaming death’ spicy breakfast sausage?

@luis3007: It’s the same ‘right’ that every country has to object and respond to what is happening in its neighbors. France had a ‘right’ to interfere in Germany to keep it from uniting. The USA had a ‘right’ to interfere when the USSR put nuclear missiles in Cuba. The UK had a ‘right’ to get involved when the Russians threatened the Ottomans.

Now if one argued that they had no right to do those things, I’d definitely see their point. I deliberately put right in quotes.

@Sceonn: Well, from their point of view a united Europe is an existential threat and they have historical precedents to back that up. So it makes sense to stop said existential threat from ever coming into being. As for being mired in the past, the ambassador made that remark about human nature not changing, despite even some claims to the contrary.

@Cryostorm: War would absolutely be a last resort. They’d go for subtler methods first: “Well, if you join this Union thing, the entity known as ‘Germany’ will no longer exist, meaning that our trade deals with Germany will not be valid. That’ll be inconvenient. But not too big a deal; we trade more with Russia anyway. Oh, and the current meeting between the Roman and Russian Emperors is totally a coincidence. Nothing to do with this. BTW, winter’s coming. Don’t you need Russian natural gas? Be a shame if we bought it all.”

@TheCataphract: It very much is a ‘the strong do what they will’ situation. In this scenario too, Rhomania is presumably a status-quo power while the prospective Union would, by its very nature, be a new (super?) power, and all status-quo powers wouldn’t like a new guy muscling in on their turf.

@MarshalofMontival: That is another possible explanation. I’m being deliberately vague so as to not tie myself down, but I want to keep this ‘far-future’ look canon. So what is shown will happen in 2015, but the lead-up and context are still up in the air.

@Christian: I think the cliff notes version of this could be one sentence ‘too many Romans have died fighting against organizations too similar to what you propose for comfort’. Sure, this prospected united Europe might not be an existential threat, unlike the previous ones. Times have changed. But what if those last two sentences are wrong? That’s the Romans’ fear.

Roman Emperors have taken the title ‘Vicegerent of God on Earth’. That’s from OTL. There’s certainly a religious element. The Romans are supposed to be God’s Chosen People after all. There’s the crowning by the Patriarch (Thomas the Slav in his bid for the throne IOTL actually journeyed into the Caliphate to get crowned by the Patriarch of Antioch to boost his legitimacy.) But Roman legitimacy seems never to have been precisely defined.

@Vince: Yeah, there’s a lot of backdrop and context missing. The issue could’ve been dormant since it’s been a while, but the prospect of Latin Europe united triggered the Romans and brought ‘bad memories’ back.

@JSC: Another possibility is that Rhomania is not alone in the anti-union group, but is taking point because they’re the most adamant about it. Any pre-existing major power in 2015 would be displeased at the prospect of a new European major power.

I’m planning on this to be the last existential threat (peripheral bickering still on the table). The Romans have had a thousand years of that. Enough is enough.

@Lascaris: The majority of the population is Greek. The Empire has a lot of minorities, most of which are pretty small (it was a different story a hundred years ago) compared to the Greek portion. I think a good comparison might be the UK. It’s got the English, Scots, (Northern) Irish, and Welsh, but the English portion is far bigger than the other three combined. Obviously I’m simplifying by leaving out the significant immigrant populations of diverse origins, but hopefully the gist is clear.

@TheWanderingReader: I have a fun time picturing how OTL pop culture things would differ by being created ITTL. Star Wars might have the Empire be the good guys fighting against terrorist rebels with Triune accents who seek to take power so can they can exploit the galaxy. In the TTL MCU, Thor gets offered the job of Strategos of the Varangians…

@RogueTraderEnthusiast: I don’t want to try myself down, but I can see the Romans operating on a ‘my side, your side’ principle. Namely, they’re happy to mind their own business, but they expect you to return the favor.

Yeah, if anti-ICBM tech became a real concern, the Romans probably wouldn’t be interested in arms limitation. Missile spam is a rather simple but effective tactic.

Roman battlecruiser New Zealand?

@Trevayne: Arms limitation they could definitely accept, although the devil is in the details. Disarmament though would strike them as entirely unrealistic idealism. The genie, once out, can’t be put back into the bottle.

MAD I think would be a doctrine very dear to the Romans since they can say ‘sure, you may kill us, but we can take you down with us, so how about you don’t try?’. I’m picturing a multipolar 20th century world, with multiple great powers. Think something like 1913 states but with 2015 technology. (Keep in mind that I reserve the right to change my mind.)

@Sir Omega: That’s what I’m thinking.

@sebastiao: I declared that non-canon. It raised too many questions and I don’t want to tie my hands.

 

[Βοανηργές]

The Kurds on the Roman side of the border feel a growing Roman connection, whilst the Kurds on the other side feel absolutely no such thing.

Do the Rhomans or the Ottomans have more Kurds on their side of the border?

I’m of two minds regarding China. On the one hand, it could turn inward and be Fortress China after the battering it has gotten over the last few hundred years (first the Liao, then the Jin, then the Mongols, then the Tieh, then the Mongols again). But it also might want to revive ancient glories and restore the days of Tang before all these humiliations at the hands of barbarians.

Throwing another option in the ring - reconquista by the Southern Wu remnants aided by Japan and Rhomania

I have a fun time picturing how OTL pop culture things would differ by being created ITTL. Star Wars might have the Empire be the good guys fighting against terrorist rebels with Triune accents who seek to take power so can they can exploit the galaxy. In the TTL MCU, Thor gets offered the job of Strategos of the Varangians…

Rhoman/Rhomania-influenced ITTL Hollywood confirmed?