Great update !!, the allies will have to reach Berlin Faster, and occupy the rest of germany , that way the soviets, will only have poland to liberate.
No Spanish Civil War in 1936 (my new Timeline)
- Thread starter Dr. Strangelove
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Dr. Strangelove
Banned
Yes. Unless Stalin has something else to say.
Yes, I still don't know what to do with Egypt but with the king having the Italians to act as a counterweight to the british, the british refusing to accept that the days of Empire are over, and soon to be born Israel owing a debt of gratitude to fascist Italy -and maybe a stronger homegrown fascist movement in Israel- all sorts of insanity could happen in the Middle East in the late 40's. Let's add that Syria and Lebanon still are under French Mandate -even if the french have promised independence... at some point in the future.
Thank you and welcome aboard!
I didn't know that.
Either way, it's not a terrible change, and the soviets are happy to have gained a client state and one less headache to take care from. And see that that source is dated 1998. ****
A question here: the Democratic nomination should take place in July 1944. Who should Henry Wallace take as running mate? The most obvious candidate is Harry Truman as OTL, and I guess the party leadership would force him to take a southern running mate if he wants to appeal to the entire party. Either way, he's no Roosevelt and he is not goin to win the nomination or the election as widely as Roosevelt did OTL. For once, his left-wing views and push for desegregation are going to lose him the South. Wallace's greatest hurdle here will not be the election proper, but finding himself nominated by a hostile Democratic Party.
The election will probably coincide with the last weeks of the war in Europe or its immediate aftermath, and happenings in its last week will have an effect in the election. And yes, this timeline will finally feature one of those US election maps.
These newest updates are really interesting! I have to say, I`m quite curious aabout Entente/trotskyite-Soviet relations. The mention of a "Euro-Soviet Cinema" implies some sort of market integration, to the point they`re considered one markert (which implies the Soviets liberalize border controls and media cesorship quite a bit more then OTL as well).
Dr. Strangelove
Banned
Someone please tell me why George Marshall could not run as Wallace's running mate. While Truman is the most plausible option so far, it's also the most boring one. Was he disinterested in politics? Did he dislike Wallace? Did the democratic party establishment dislike him?
Yes, the Soviet Union sort of liberalized and sort of has a friendly relationship with the European Community. I still don't know the details myself.
Dr. Strangelove
Banned
That settles it then. I've found a suitable replacement (I hope!). Hopefully there will be a new update this evening.
Dr. Strangelove
Banned
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]From: Down Like Inglorious Bastards. The last year of the Third Reich, by Rai Mohinder Pérez. Ed Alfaguara, Madrid, 2009[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...Believing that the weak americans would not wish to see a repeat of Antwerp (nevermind that an entire Waffen SS division had been wiped out in the battle and deprived SS units in the West from reserves), the Kamarilla thought that they would be open to peace overtures. Such offer of a ceasefire was made through the german ambassador to Switzerland in June 3. A response would be received three days later. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]From A war to be won, history of the second World War, by Alan Millett; Harvard University Press, 2000[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...victory in Antwerp had come at a great cost for the americans. The last major battle involving american troops in Europe, Tours, had also been bloody and hard fought, but the ferocity of the initial german attack itself and the collapse of american lines had made it relatively bloodless: it was the other allied forces fighting in central France that would take the bulk of casualties. Antwerp, however, left american ability to conduct a major offensive against the Siegfried Line crippled for months. The american army's often criticized policy of individual replacements was also harmful, as troop morale dropped and frontline units lost cohesion. While the americans licked their wounds and refitted Antwerp for use, canadian troops from the north and french from the south swooped Eastern Belgium while the germans retreated behind the Sigfried Line...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The french enter Saarbrucken, July 1944
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...unable to mount major offensives while the port of Antwerp wasn't cleared, the eastern half of the front was not idle. A steady advance toward the german border continued through April and May. While the germans had hoped that Sedan and Metz would act as effective roadblocks, Sedan was recaptured by the 1[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]st[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Spanish Army in May 20. Metz, however, was a too important communications hub to be just bypassed and forced Koenig's 2[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]nd[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] French Army to fight tooth and nail for the city's strong fortresses during most of April and May. Finally, Metz surrendered in May 13 after the bulk of german troops in Lorrain retreated towards Germany, followed by the british, who liberated Luxembourg City two days later. Every piece was finally in position to begin the assault on Germany. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...the liberation and swift repairof Antwerp was a blessing for the Allies, who were finally able to move troops and supplies to the front with the needed flexibility. By mid-may the first units of South American regular troops -and not former volunteers under their national flags- began to land in Europe, two years after their countries had declared war on Germany. The 1[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]st[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Argentine Division would already be a part of the attack on the Siegfried Line, with the Cuban brigade intervening under american command in the diversion operations against Liege. By the end of the war six months later, 100.000 soldiers from Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Cuba and Argentina had fought in European soil. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...Devised by Auchinlek and Hauteclocque, the attack plan was in surface a very ambitious overdo of 1930's French plans for an invasion of Germany, that the Maginot mentality never allowed to go past a preliminary decision stage. But if the plan of just smashing against the Siegfried Line at the Sarre and Palatinate until a breakthrough was achieved and then advancing towards the Rheinland seemed overly blunt -and reminiscent of World War One's unimaginative plans to break the Hindenburg Line just throwing bodies at it-, it was much more imaginative than it seemed. Auchinlek famously described it to Eisenhower as "punching Germany's trachea". It certainly left german armed forces in the West helpless and unable to react...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Himmler's offer is (in his mind) perfectly reasonable: a german retreat from Belgium (except Eupen and Malmedy, of course), a payment of reasonable reparations to France (including an extra for Elsass-Lothringen: the Reich shouldn't be paying for lands that are rightfully german, but Himmler feels generous), and -it goes without saying- opening german lines so americans, british and french can join the Reich and the Italian Empire in fighting the common bolshevik enemy. Who, btw, has just started in May 29 a major offensive that appears to have put the entirety of Army Group Centre out of its misery and is driving unstoppable through Belarus towards Minsk and the Baltic. Years later, some will say he might have been succesful had he proposed it to Eden, but Wallace was definitely not someone willing to attack the Soviet Union or to make peace, much less campaigning as he was for nomination. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The answer comes three days later. At dawn of June 6, the 1st and 2nd Canadian Armies attack all remaining german positions west of the Meuse, intending to drive the germans away from Liége. In the south, in what used to be the french-german border, thousands of artillery pieces start shelling german advanced positions. During the morning, allied forces -predominantly french and british, with spaniards and argentines protecting the left flank around the Ardennes- begin the assault on the Sigfried Line. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]During the entirety of June 6, Himmler barely reacts, hoping that this is a last resort offensive by the Western Allies -it's not like he has much of a choice, since the collapse in the East is forcing him to rush all reserves there. By the end of the first day, the ferocity of allied air attacks against all sorts of transport infrastructure west of the Rhine, has led the germans to believe that one of the offensives is a diversion, intended to pin down reserves while the other advances. They judge that the canadians, fresh after their easy campaign liberating Southern Holland and attacking on flat terrain that leads directly onto the Ruhr and the Rheinland, are the real deal. They are wrong. Their first suspicions that they have made a mistake stripping the southern half of the Siegfried Line of reserves come when eight hundred Lancaster bombers firebomb Saarbrücken the night of June 9. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]By this point, the Siegfried Line has been subjected to a torough hammering by all sorts of heavy artillery, aerial bombings, napalm, bunker busters and rockets. In another timeline -in autumn, with a less damaged Wehrmacht and unable to use Antwerp- this could have turned into a veritable quagmire for the Allies. It still is a bitter, hard-fought battle in a comparatively narrow front between Luxembourg City and Saarbrücken -soon to be forever rechristened as Sarrebrück- that costs thousands of lives, but in June 27 Koenig's army enters Saarbrücken and allied troops begin crossing the Saar river. The first german city has been captured, and the Sigfried Line has been broken. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Still the OKH makes another fatal mistake believing that the allies intend to drive down the Moselle valley toward Trier and Koblenz to bypass the Ardennes and join the canadians, setting up whatever reserves they can scrap to protect Trier. They're wrong again. Refusing to advance through the difficult terrain of the Eifel mountains, the anglo-french drive north and east from the Saar, toward Kaiserslautern and Mainz, slowly overpowering all german attempts to defend. By the beginning of July, they have broken towards flatter terrain leading to the Rhine after surrounding Kaiserslautern[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In July 7, tanks from the 10th Royal Hussars regiment reach the Rhine betwen Worms and Mannheim. All german attempts to rush reserves fromt the Ruhr to attack the exposed anglo-french flank are useless in the face of the Allies' overwhelming air superiority. By mid-July only isolated pockets of resistance remain at Mainz and Mannheim. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Auchinlek's gamble that Germany was too exhausted and crippled to attempt any counteroffensive has paid off. The allied salient in the Palatinate is surrounded by three sides, but the Wehrmacht will be unable to dislodge it or to cut it off. Now it is time to prepare to break through the Rhine and the Wotan Line, the hasty fortified line that Himmler has built behind the river. [/FONT]
Breaking the Sigfried Line, June 1944.
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]From: The United States in the 20th Century, by James A. Sarsfield. Random House, NY, 2005. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...the 1944 democratic nomination was, for the first time in a decade, open to a wide host of candidates. After Roosevelt's death, Wallace seriously considered not running for election and allowing a new generation of Democratic politicians to take over. By his own admission, it was only the news of nazi death camps brought by jewish refugees arrived from the Balkans into allied-occupied Libya that finally convinced him to run. As he said in his memories, if elected he would held a position of unparalelled privilege to prevent such a horror from ever happening again. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...to say that Wallace was opposed by many in the Democratic establishment would be an understatement. His positions with regards to racial segregation would alienate him most of the conservative South, and many conservatives thought him unfit to become president after the Guru Letters incident, even if he had repeatedly denounced that episode. His repeated sympathies by the Soviet Union also did little to endear him with the most conservative establishment, although part of the general population fed with wartime propaganda did not seem to take it against him. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...during the first half of 1944, his aides finally convinced him that a running mate able to appeal to a wider base and hopefully from the South would be able to better his chances. Many names were put on the table while other presidential contenders like Byrd or Farley seemed to chip away Wallace's initial advantage. After several personalities such as Missouri's Harry S. Truman, Indiana's Paul V. McNutt or Alabama's John Bankhead were considered -or, in Truman's case, refused to be nominated-, Wallace's aides were finally able to convince him to accept South Carolina's senator James F. Byrnes...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...with his latter track record against desegregation, it may seem surprising to think that by 1944 Byrnes was thought to be moderate enough to appeal both to Wallace's pro Civil Rights stance and to most conservatives inside the Democratic Party. Seeing how their disagreements with regards to the Soviet Union would later strain their relationship, it is also noteworthy that by 1944 Byrd's position was, if not of outright sympathy, soft enough to be palatable to Wallace. During the National Convention, Wallace and Byrnes were able to sell an image of wide appeal to both liberals and conservatives. Together with the Wallace administration riding on the wave of decisive military victories in Germany and the Pacific, the Wallace/Byrnes ticket would be narrowly nominated...[1][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]..in the Republican convention, the Dewey/Willkie ticket was nominated after a harsh debate. Willkie was nominated as the surprise vicepresidential candidate to placate the most conservative elements, who thought Dewey too soft and liberal to fight Wallace. Even then, Willkie was considered a compromise candidate...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1]OTL the Roosevelt/Truman ticket got something like 92% of the votes in the 1944 Democratic National Convention... [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...Believing that the weak americans would not wish to see a repeat of Antwerp (nevermind that an entire Waffen SS division had been wiped out in the battle and deprived SS units in the West from reserves), the Kamarilla thought that they would be open to peace overtures. Such offer of a ceasefire was made through the german ambassador to Switzerland in June 3. A response would be received three days later. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]From A war to be won, history of the second World War, by Alan Millett; Harvard University Press, 2000[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...victory in Antwerp had come at a great cost for the americans. The last major battle involving american troops in Europe, Tours, had also been bloody and hard fought, but the ferocity of the initial german attack itself and the collapse of american lines had made it relatively bloodless: it was the other allied forces fighting in central France that would take the bulk of casualties. Antwerp, however, left american ability to conduct a major offensive against the Siegfried Line crippled for months. The american army's often criticized policy of individual replacements was also harmful, as troop morale dropped and frontline units lost cohesion. While the americans licked their wounds and refitted Antwerp for use, canadian troops from the north and french from the south swooped Eastern Belgium while the germans retreated behind the Sigfried Line...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The french enter Saarbrucken, July 1944
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...unable to mount major offensives while the port of Antwerp wasn't cleared, the eastern half of the front was not idle. A steady advance toward the german border continued through April and May. While the germans had hoped that Sedan and Metz would act as effective roadblocks, Sedan was recaptured by the 1[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]st[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Spanish Army in May 20. Metz, however, was a too important communications hub to be just bypassed and forced Koenig's 2[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]nd[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] French Army to fight tooth and nail for the city's strong fortresses during most of April and May. Finally, Metz surrendered in May 13 after the bulk of german troops in Lorrain retreated towards Germany, followed by the british, who liberated Luxembourg City two days later. Every piece was finally in position to begin the assault on Germany. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...the liberation and swift repairof Antwerp was a blessing for the Allies, who were finally able to move troops and supplies to the front with the needed flexibility. By mid-may the first units of South American regular troops -and not former volunteers under their national flags- began to land in Europe, two years after their countries had declared war on Germany. The 1[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]st[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] Argentine Division would already be a part of the attack on the Siegfried Line, with the Cuban brigade intervening under american command in the diversion operations against Liege. By the end of the war six months later, 100.000 soldiers from Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Cuba and Argentina had fought in European soil. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...Devised by Auchinlek and Hauteclocque, the attack plan was in surface a very ambitious overdo of 1930's French plans for an invasion of Germany, that the Maginot mentality never allowed to go past a preliminary decision stage. But if the plan of just smashing against the Siegfried Line at the Sarre and Palatinate until a breakthrough was achieved and then advancing towards the Rheinland seemed overly blunt -and reminiscent of World War One's unimaginative plans to break the Hindenburg Line just throwing bodies at it-, it was much more imaginative than it seemed. Auchinlek famously described it to Eisenhower as "punching Germany's trachea". It certainly left german armed forces in the West helpless and unable to react...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Himmler's offer is (in his mind) perfectly reasonable: a german retreat from Belgium (except Eupen and Malmedy, of course), a payment of reasonable reparations to France (including an extra for Elsass-Lothringen: the Reich shouldn't be paying for lands that are rightfully german, but Himmler feels generous), and -it goes without saying- opening german lines so americans, british and french can join the Reich and the Italian Empire in fighting the common bolshevik enemy. Who, btw, has just started in May 29 a major offensive that appears to have put the entirety of Army Group Centre out of its misery and is driving unstoppable through Belarus towards Minsk and the Baltic. Years later, some will say he might have been succesful had he proposed it to Eden, but Wallace was definitely not someone willing to attack the Soviet Union or to make peace, much less campaigning as he was for nomination. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The answer comes three days later. At dawn of June 6, the 1st and 2nd Canadian Armies attack all remaining german positions west of the Meuse, intending to drive the germans away from Liége. In the south, in what used to be the french-german border, thousands of artillery pieces start shelling german advanced positions. During the morning, allied forces -predominantly french and british, with spaniards and argentines protecting the left flank around the Ardennes- begin the assault on the Sigfried Line. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]During the entirety of June 6, Himmler barely reacts, hoping that this is a last resort offensive by the Western Allies -it's not like he has much of a choice, since the collapse in the East is forcing him to rush all reserves there. By the end of the first day, the ferocity of allied air attacks against all sorts of transport infrastructure west of the Rhine, has led the germans to believe that one of the offensives is a diversion, intended to pin down reserves while the other advances. They judge that the canadians, fresh after their easy campaign liberating Southern Holland and attacking on flat terrain that leads directly onto the Ruhr and the Rheinland, are the real deal. They are wrong. Their first suspicions that they have made a mistake stripping the southern half of the Siegfried Line of reserves come when eight hundred Lancaster bombers firebomb Saarbrücken the night of June 9. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]By this point, the Siegfried Line has been subjected to a torough hammering by all sorts of heavy artillery, aerial bombings, napalm, bunker busters and rockets. In another timeline -in autumn, with a less damaged Wehrmacht and unable to use Antwerp- this could have turned into a veritable quagmire for the Allies. It still is a bitter, hard-fought battle in a comparatively narrow front between Luxembourg City and Saarbrücken -soon to be forever rechristened as Sarrebrück- that costs thousands of lives, but in June 27 Koenig's army enters Saarbrücken and allied troops begin crossing the Saar river. The first german city has been captured, and the Sigfried Line has been broken. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Still the OKH makes another fatal mistake believing that the allies intend to drive down the Moselle valley toward Trier and Koblenz to bypass the Ardennes and join the canadians, setting up whatever reserves they can scrap to protect Trier. They're wrong again. Refusing to advance through the difficult terrain of the Eifel mountains, the anglo-french drive north and east from the Saar, toward Kaiserslautern and Mainz, slowly overpowering all german attempts to defend. By the beginning of July, they have broken towards flatter terrain leading to the Rhine after surrounding Kaiserslautern[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In July 7, tanks from the 10th Royal Hussars regiment reach the Rhine betwen Worms and Mannheim. All german attempts to rush reserves fromt the Ruhr to attack the exposed anglo-french flank are useless in the face of the Allies' overwhelming air superiority. By mid-July only isolated pockets of resistance remain at Mainz and Mannheim. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Auchinlek's gamble that Germany was too exhausted and crippled to attempt any counteroffensive has paid off. The allied salient in the Palatinate is surrounded by three sides, but the Wehrmacht will be unable to dislodge it or to cut it off. Now it is time to prepare to break through the Rhine and the Wotan Line, the hasty fortified line that Himmler has built behind the river. [/FONT]
Breaking the Sigfried Line, June 1944.
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]From: The United States in the 20th Century, by James A. Sarsfield. Random House, NY, 2005. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...the 1944 democratic nomination was, for the first time in a decade, open to a wide host of candidates. After Roosevelt's death, Wallace seriously considered not running for election and allowing a new generation of Democratic politicians to take over. By his own admission, it was only the news of nazi death camps brought by jewish refugees arrived from the Balkans into allied-occupied Libya that finally convinced him to run. As he said in his memories, if elected he would held a position of unparalelled privilege to prevent such a horror from ever happening again. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...to say that Wallace was opposed by many in the Democratic establishment would be an understatement. His positions with regards to racial segregation would alienate him most of the conservative South, and many conservatives thought him unfit to become president after the Guru Letters incident, even if he had repeatedly denounced that episode. His repeated sympathies by the Soviet Union also did little to endear him with the most conservative establishment, although part of the general population fed with wartime propaganda did not seem to take it against him. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...during the first half of 1944, his aides finally convinced him that a running mate able to appeal to a wider base and hopefully from the South would be able to better his chances. Many names were put on the table while other presidential contenders like Byrd or Farley seemed to chip away Wallace's initial advantage. After several personalities such as Missouri's Harry S. Truman, Indiana's Paul V. McNutt or Alabama's John Bankhead were considered -or, in Truman's case, refused to be nominated-, Wallace's aides were finally able to convince him to accept South Carolina's senator James F. Byrnes...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...with his latter track record against desegregation, it may seem surprising to think that by 1944 Byrnes was thought to be moderate enough to appeal both to Wallace's pro Civil Rights stance and to most conservatives inside the Democratic Party. Seeing how their disagreements with regards to the Soviet Union would later strain their relationship, it is also noteworthy that by 1944 Byrd's position was, if not of outright sympathy, soft enough to be palatable to Wallace. During the National Convention, Wallace and Byrnes were able to sell an image of wide appeal to both liberals and conservatives. Together with the Wallace administration riding on the wave of decisive military victories in Germany and the Pacific, the Wallace/Byrnes ticket would be narrowly nominated...[1][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]..in the Republican convention, the Dewey/Willkie ticket was nominated after a harsh debate. Willkie was nominated as the surprise vicepresidential candidate to placate the most conservative elements, who thought Dewey too soft and liberal to fight Wallace. Even then, Willkie was considered a compromise candidate...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1]OTL the Roosevelt/Truman ticket got something like 92% of the votes in the 1944 Democratic National Convention... [/FONT]
The coalfiels will be very handy to rebuild France, especially coupled with large exports of British coal to France. I expect that the Sarre department will get a status similar to Alsace Moselle. In a nutshell, Laïcité won't apply there, along with a whole slate of French laws and regulations. Expulsions will inevitably take place, but not on the scale of what happened in Eastern Germany beyond the Oder.
As usual the update is great, your "strategic" and "long view" writing style is perfect.
Dr. Strangelove
Banned
I don't think there will be many people to expel anyway.
What effects would the loss of the Saar coal have on german renaissance after the war?
I used to be able to combine it with a more ground's eye view, either I am getting older or I just want to finish the war.
Interesting. Looks like spring of 1944 is just going to switch over to summer of 1944 without any breath-catching for the Germans, both on the Eastern and on the Western Front. They're going down.
The effect will be neglibible since Germany and especially a united Germany has several coalfields other than the Sarre. The Rhur and Westphalian one is and remains the big one Germany, there is so much coal there that they can simply strip mine it with huge machines almost straight from the soil.The Saxony coalfield is huge too and larger than the Sarre one. Depending on Germany borders in the East, they may also keep parts of the Silesian coalfield. It is mostly brown coal or lignite though, whereas the Sarre is mainly black coal or anthracite. Still, the Rhur is full of black coal as well so it won't be a problem at all.
The mere presence of coal in a country is helpful but does not garantee that an industrial revolution will take place there. The German miracle had a lot more to do with the ordoliberal policies adopted by their government and the ease of trading with the West than to anything else. If Germany is ostracised post war as you seem to imply, the German miracle will be stalled and be much more gradual. Why produce one million Volkswagens when you can't sell them abroad and the German market only needs a third of that number?
Depending on the policies victorious France, Britain and Spain adopt they can easily take the place of OTL Japan and Germany post war and until now. If Eden stays as Prime Minister post war, better policies than OTL may be adopted.
Going back to coal, how is Spain going to fuel its economic miracle, considering that it lacks coal and oil? Will it go the way of Japan and import raw materials en masse (from the South American allies?), or go down the French path of nuclear power+hydropower when appropriate?
I used to be able to combine it with a more ground's eye view, either I am getting older or I just want to finish the war.
To be fair I can't see a lot of difference from your earlier war times writings. The fact that you were writing about campaigns in your native Spain probably helped you a fair bit indirectly. For this kind of TL where you want to portray the strategic consequences of Spain as a great power, a strategic view is perfect.
very good update, but i think that himmler proposition should have been acepted as a start for negotiation and union against the soviet union.
and how are the operations in the Pacific Theater ? will the H Bomb be used against Japan ?
and how are the operations in the Pacific Theater ? will the H Bomb be used against Japan ?
very good update, but i think that himmler proposition should have been acepted as a start for negotiation and union against the soviet union.
I know this is really for Dr. Strangelove to answer, but I couldn't help but be tempted to give an answer of my own.
If I understand the last update well, Himmler's idea was 1914 borders in the west and in exchange Allied help for his conquest in the east. That's absolutely ridiculous and insane. At this point, Allied frontlines are very close to that position anyway. Did you really expect the French to give up Alsace-Lorraine, which they can easily conquer, which was a focus of French foreign policy for forty years pre WWI, leave a Nazi regime intact on their eastern border... all while that regime is close to a collapse anyway? And the treaty doesn't even mention the Netherlands, Norway and Denmark. If Germany wishes to keep those, there's no Allied gain at all. This is a war to destroy the German Reich, not a limited border war.
The only way Germany has a chance at peace is that they have a coup, overthrow Himmler, install a semi-democratic government and offer the surrender the Allies want while sending as much reinforcements to the east as possible. That's the only way any sort of peace with leaves the Saar and Austria in Germany will be accomplished. But that won't happen, since the Nazi grip on Germany is too strong anyway. With Wallace and Stalin in charge of the US and Russia, and with total victory within their grasp, Germany is going down.
Spain lacks oil (though this Spain seems to have kept Spanish north Africa as a province, and I dont' know how much oil can be found there), but has big coal deposits in the north.
It also has several huge rives for hydropower, and of oyurse you can put a nuclear lant mostly anywere, so a combination of both paths is possible.
Dr. Strangelove
Banned
And now I just realized: with the big bulge the allied line now forms in southwestern Germany, this will probably end being known as the Campaign of the Bulge.
More or less what Rakhasa says: there are sizable coal deposits in Asturias and Leon, but hydro and nuclear are the OTL route, only ten years in advance, with foreign help and not that many slave workers (are those a bunch of fascist prisoners? They may as well earn their bread!).
The map shows reservoirs built by Franco's regime during the 1950's. If there's one image that would summarize those years for all spaniards, it is Franco inaugurating a new dam. It is the Franco Years stereotype, much like 1950's America is stereotyped by big Cadillacs and Rock'n'Roll. But Franco only implemented a massive reservoir construction scheme that had been designed in the mid-30's. ITTL, they will probably begin building dams wherever available, whenever they can get the funds. And once they learn of nuclear energy, they will go for it because it is the ideologically perfect energy source. OTL, Spain's first nuclear central was built between 1965 and 1968 using an american reactor specifically designed for exportation to countries receiving foreign aid. ITTL, it is likely that Spain joins with Britain and France in nuclear research during the 50's, perhaps allowing the French to open their first nuclear central a couple of years in advance and the spaniards around the early to mid-60's.
Political developments in Asia and the Middle East may force European Countries to search for oil in other more secure areas. I have to see what effect this could have with oil exploitation in Libya, Spanish Guinea, Angola,Nigeria, etc. And decolonisation, of course.
Wallace is the last person Himmler should have gone to. He is actually convinced that the Russian Revolution (and, in a lesser way, Spain's) is Europe's answer to the American Revolution and that the Soviet Union is a force for good in the world. Hilarity will ensue once the Yalta-analogue happens in Kabul in the summer of 1944.
I certainly agree with you on that.
Unbelievable how someone who managed to become US president could be that stupid. I suppose that regarding Sovietophilia, Roosevelt was bad, and Wallace was horrible.
Sounds good to me especially since hydropwer can always be combined with irrigation projects and other things. I love your "ideologically perfect" energy source label for nuclear power, if only that was the case OTL all over Europe ...
Nuclear research is bound to be different from OTL in your timeline since France stayed in the war and French scientists likely contributed to the Manhattan project (what is its status by the way?). If Britain kept a project on the side, it is likely with French help. The technological choices made OTL might be the same, but they might also be very different since the context is different and so are the needs. France may not even become the leader it became OTL, especially as OTL France made the decision not to pursue an independent technological path but to purchase the licence for the American PWR reactors. Britain did pursue a purely independent path on the other hand, the result being the AGR using CO2 as coolant and not water. A very efficient reactor on a paper, but one doomed by a low number of builds and poor project management techniques during the construction of the plants.
If the Franco-British Entente works as one in the field of nuclear power and does not have any deals with the American at all. Then you could very well end up with very different types of nuclear reactors on both sides of the Atlantic, one side might even go for Thorium as a nuclear fuel and not Uranium ... On the other hand convergence could happen as well, since water reactors are the only option for submarines and ships. Could Spain very likely growing ship building industry try for a nuclear powered merchant ship prototype? If oil prices do end up increasing massively, the ships will be cheaper to operate than bunker fuel powered vessels.
Depending on the power politics of the area, the Middle East could end up being "carved" between rival powers. As it stands the Fascists will have Iran in their sphere, what are the implications for the Anglo-Iranian oil company (BP ancestor)? If the Shah wants to renegociate the contract or even to transfert it to an Italian firm more willing to invest in the country. Then the Franco-British Entente and the Fascist bloc will become de facto ennemies will all the tension that will come with this.
Will Saudi Arabia fuel still go to the US as per OTL?
If it does then the Entente and Spain are left with Iraq and the Gulf States.
African oil can be developped a lot earlier than was the case OTL. I expect Portugal to massively develop Angola with Spanish help as soon as the potential becomes obvious. This in turn will spur searches all along the coast
Wallace was really utterly naive as far as communism was concerned, his visit to the Kolyma is the best illustration of this.
Dr. Strangelove
Banned
I'll be more charitable and assume he was naïve and the soviets very good at propaganda. He's in for a nasty surprise when he finds out Durruti also loathes the soviets, though.
I am already keeping track of way too many things, so I am not sure about its current status, except that there is a Manhattan Project, it began a few months in advance with regards to OTL, it was primarily aimed to nuking Tokio in its origins, and while it has received substantial french and british help, they are beginning to have second thoughts about it once Wallace ascended to the presidency.
To be honest, the status of the atomic bomb will depend on plot-related reasons more than anything else.
I don't know enough about nuclear technology to give you an accurate response, but the idea of an atompunk Europe in the 60's is interesting...
The Middle East is giving me a few headaches, and it will give the allies more once fascists and soviets begin encroaching on to the area. Then they will begin to take very seriously the idea of searching for alternative oil and energy sources.
Yes, this is going to happen and give Portugal a massive boost and encourage both Portuguese and Europeans to keep an intact Portuguese Union.
The next update should be a technological interlude detailing the evolution of gyrodyne technology during the war and its first combat uses during 1944.
Nice to see you back in the saddle, Herr Professor Doktor!
Interesting. I look forward to this update as I have all the previous ones.
I would say that since America entered the war six months earlier and coupled with the extra French contribution. It is not too far fetched to assume that the first self sustaining nuclear reaction took place three to four months ealier, that is in August or September 1942 instead of December. The bombs can therefore be ready by April 1945 and even earlier than that in say February if things go well.
Will Wallace shre the secrets of the Bomb openly with the Soviets as per For All Time or not?
Have a think about the idea, if you want help with nuclear technology and such just PM me and I will do my best to help you.
Sounds great!
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