So as the name is now SPQR, is it safe to assume that there are some elements of the Res Publica coming back into style?
Remnants of Rome
- Thread starter Zuvarq
- Start date
Well I'd call the war they just had with the Zoharists pretty ruinous. And the Persians were never really honest with the Eastern Romans; make peace for some gold, two years later declare war again while the Romans are distracted.
The second one. The survivors are escaping to the British Isles.
In OTL the Anglo-Saxon-Jutes left due to the Huns. In TTL the Saxons and Frisians were forced to migrate to Britain, and mostly did so in a huge exodus where everyone who could hopped on a boat and escaped. The Angles were displaced north a bit by the Huns, but
The floods haven't started to occur yet because it's still the 5th century. So there is not really a continuous settlement of the Frisian-Saxon kingdoms, just that huge first exodus, and this second smaller exodus caused by the Langobards.
The Angles will partake in some settling of Saxon and Frisian Britain in the future though.
The Senate is gradually mattering again and a future emperor will introduce a couple reforms, maybe forced upon him, maybe upon his own accord, but that's not why it's called SPQR.
In OTL the Roman Empire occasionally called itself SPQR. I'm just using the name because SPQR is simply shorter, and the two Roman Empires refuse to acknowledge that they are just the western/eastern one out of two. Plus SPQR and Rhomania are just cooler names than Western Roman Empire and Eastern Roman Empire.
AtriumCarceris
Banned
Plus SPQR and Rhomania are just cooler names than Western Roman Empire and Eastern Roman Empire.
In your opinion of course.
I was actually getting really confused for a while there by the constant name changes.
It was rough and some rich provinces were lost, most noticably Syria. However I think the empire didn't suffer the devastation and loss of power that OTL ERE did after Phocus came to power. Egypt and Anatolia didn't get occupied/ravaged for several years. Hence it should be considerably more secure economically and socially.
OK, thanks for clarifying.
The Senate is gradually mattering again and a future emperor will introduce a couple reforms, maybe forced upon him, maybe upon his own accord, but that's not why it's called SPQR.
In OTL the Roman Empire occasionally called itself SPQR. I'm just using the name because SPQR is simply shorter, and the two Roman Empires refuse to acknowledge that they are just the western/eastern one out of two. Plus SPQR and Rhomania are just cooler names than Western Roman Empire and Eastern Roman Empire.
Just to check you do know what SPQR stood for? "Senate and People of the Republic of Rome". Hence it wouldn't really apply to any system with an emperor, unless he's trying to mobilise public support by a claim to being a 1st amongst equals and ruling by consent to some degree. I do agree it makes keeping track of the states a bit easier.
Steve
True. But Greece is also being ravaged. Though I think Anatolia was more important than Greece at this time.
And it doesn't mean they can't be unlucky...
Actually looks like a left out part of it. I left out that: the Frisians and Saxons were forced out by the Huns, but not forced to migrate, just escaping was their best option. And the Angles were displaced north but didn't make any exodus to the British Isles.
Yes (actually it mean the Senate and People of Rome. No mention of a Republic). But the Roman Empire, even in OTL, did have SPQR as its motto and an alternate name. Res Publica also would sometimes mean 'commonwealth' instead of 'republic'. (Even though Res Publica is not in SPQR, just decided to point that out)Just to check you do know what SPQR stood for? "Senate and People of the Republic of Rome". Hence it wouldn't really apply to any system with an emperor, unless he's trying to mobilise public support by a claim to being a 1st amongst equals and ruling by consent to some degree. I do agree it makes keeping track of the states a bit easier.
I'm sure I don't need to point it out to you, but Res Publica is literally public "thing" or, public affairs.
Anywho, seems Flavius Julius was in the same 'constructor' mold of his ancestors. I'm truly interested to see if this new incarnation can really bring itself back to the flexible, 'never beaten in war' kind of state of it's roots.
I guess what really got me hoping against hope for this little inheritor was your most recent update - an army composed of native romans. Maybe a little uptick in the birthrates now everyone's not quite so cozy as masters of the world?
Anywho, seems Flavius Julius was in the same 'constructor' mold of his ancestors. I'm truly interested to see if this new incarnation can really bring itself back to the flexible, 'never beaten in war' kind of state of it's roots.
I guess what really got me hoping against hope for this little inheritor was your most recent update - an army composed of native romans. Maybe a little uptick in the birthrates now everyone's not quite so cozy as masters of the world?
He will be an ambitious emperor.
Regarding population... what would the population of this Western Roman Empire be? I'm thinking around six million or so.
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Well honestly I would have no idea about the population around the fall. But I know the west was less heavily populated than the east, and the population had been falling. Though with more romanized citizens, and increased birthrates, I think anything between 4 and 7 million would feel good for such a stable area.
But then again, it's all gut since I have no figures.
HOLY EMPIRES
In January 466, Flavius Augustus Tiranus, 6 legions, and 5 other generals, crossed the strait of Gibraltar and invaded the coast of Vandalania near Tingis. After establishing a foothold, the troops set up camp and prepared to siege Tingis. Tingis was sieged for 7 months before it finally surrendered. The Romans were soon attacked by a large Vandalan army and fought for five days before the Vandalans were forced to retreat east. Augustus headed further east as the Roman army approached Caesarea, they were again engaged by the Vandalan army. Again the Vandal army lost and the Romans sieged Caesarea. They smashed the doors open and conquered the city. In February 467, the Romans fought yet again with what remained of the Vandalan army, mostly composed of hurriedly levied militia, and won the easiest victory of the war. Constantine was surrounded by Roman troops and the King of Vandalania surrendered in March 467.
In Britannia, more and more states rose to power. Isca Dumnonorium, Deva, Letocetum, and Eboracum became the centers of new empires. The Brython states were crushed by the Votadini empire. Corinium and Londinium allied and attacked neighboring states. In 470, Corinium, Londinium, Isca Dumnonorium, Deva, and Eboracum founded the Holy Roman Empire, which was not really an empire, rather a title that the emperors and kings of those nations held, and an ecclesiastical association. If a nation not within the Holy Roman Empire attacked one within, nations within were obligated but not required to defend it. By 473, every nation in Britannia that had Britannian Christianity as its state religion joined the Holy Roman Empire.
On the other side of the Mediterranean, barbarians continued to push into the Eastern Roman Empire. The Eastern Romans were about to lead a counterattack, when the Zoharists again declared war in 468. The Ostrogoths made peace with the Eastern Romans for the conquered land and a large amount of gold and silver treasure, as the Eastern Romans were frantic to protect precious Constantinople once they were at war with three powerful enemies. But the Hun Horde pushed further and further into Greece.
To the east, Khodadad Yehudahid led an army of 80,000 into Anatolia, and general Ibrahim led an army of 120,000 into Egypt. The Zoharist armies combined with the barbarians overwhelmed the Eastern Romans; even with all their prosperity and power, they were just not prepared for such an abrupt attack. By 473, Alexandria, Heliopolis, Hermopolis, Petra, Ptolemais, and Sinope had fallen to the heathens.
In 473, Augustus decided that it would be imperative to recover Roman lands for his own empire before it was too late, and massed an army on the eastern border and a massive fleet in Corsica.
In January 466, Flavius Augustus Tiranus, 6 legions, and 5 other generals, crossed the strait of Gibraltar and invaded the coast of Vandalania near Tingis. After establishing a foothold, the troops set up camp and prepared to siege Tingis. Tingis was sieged for 7 months before it finally surrendered. The Romans were soon attacked by a large Vandalan army and fought for five days before the Vandalans were forced to retreat east. Augustus headed further east as the Roman army approached Caesarea, they were again engaged by the Vandalan army. Again the Vandal army lost and the Romans sieged Caesarea. They smashed the doors open and conquered the city. In February 467, the Romans fought yet again with what remained of the Vandalan army, mostly composed of hurriedly levied militia, and won the easiest victory of the war. Constantine was surrounded by Roman troops and the King of Vandalania surrendered in March 467.
In Britannia, more and more states rose to power. Isca Dumnonorium, Deva, Letocetum, and Eboracum became the centers of new empires. The Brython states were crushed by the Votadini empire. Corinium and Londinium allied and attacked neighboring states. In 470, Corinium, Londinium, Isca Dumnonorium, Deva, and Eboracum founded the Holy Roman Empire, which was not really an empire, rather a title that the emperors and kings of those nations held, and an ecclesiastical association. If a nation not within the Holy Roman Empire attacked one within, nations within were obligated but not required to defend it. By 473, every nation in Britannia that had Britannian Christianity as its state religion joined the Holy Roman Empire.
On the other side of the Mediterranean, barbarians continued to push into the Eastern Roman Empire. The Eastern Romans were about to lead a counterattack, when the Zoharists again declared war in 468. The Ostrogoths made peace with the Eastern Romans for the conquered land and a large amount of gold and silver treasure, as the Eastern Romans were frantic to protect precious Constantinople once they were at war with three powerful enemies. But the Hun Horde pushed further and further into Greece.
To the east, Khodadad Yehudahid led an army of 80,000 into Anatolia, and general Ibrahim led an army of 120,000 into Egypt. The Zoharist armies combined with the barbarians overwhelmed the Eastern Romans; even with all their prosperity and power, they were just not prepared for such an abrupt attack. By 473, Alexandria, Heliopolis, Hermopolis, Petra, Ptolemais, and Sinope had fallen to the heathens.
In 473, Augustus decided that it would be imperative to recover Roman lands for his own empire before it was too late, and massed an army on the eastern border and a massive fleet in Corsica.
tjvuse
Banned
Just on the Romanization of the of S.P.Q.R as a whole could be speedup by the Roman refuges from the Eastern Roman Empire because of its instability.
Well done Xwarq this time line has really got me thinking and calling on what little knowledge of the Roman Empire i have.
Well done Xwarq this time line has really got me thinking and calling on what little knowledge of the Roman Empire i have.
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Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
I can see the western Romans see the area of Carthage and southern Italy as their next targets for conquest especially since their eastern counterparts are too busy fending off the barbarians and the new Zoharist faith. The eastern Romans are in a much more stronger position that they were since as much as I read, there's no Great Plague of Justinian nor a too devastating war with the Persians nor too much overextension, I can see the eastern Romans push the Zoharists off
It was stable up until this point. The Eastern Roman Empire has just been really unlucky, and the Zoharists have been really lucky, as the Zoharists are supposed to be an analogue to the Muslims.Just on the Romanization of the of S.P.Q.R as a whole could be speedup by the Roman refuges from the Eastern Roman Empire because of its instability.
Well done Xwarq this time line has really got me thinking and calling on what little knowledge of the Roman Empire i have.
The Eastern Romans will manage to push them out of Anatolia but in other areas they will not be so lucky.
Well they subjugated it at least. If you look back at the maps prior to the Huns' breakup, you can see that the Huns don't have a border, except where they are adjacent to states that actually have borders. So it's not officially recognized as Hun.
Unless you meant that they never actually conquered land?
However when the Huns broke apart, the remaining area in Yugoslavia became a proper empire. Though more decentralized and barbarian than the two Roman Empires.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
I can assume that the Ostrogoths ruling over parts of Thrace in your map would theoretically in time eventually assimilate into the Hellenized population slowly with each generation or remain a distinct ruling class in the kingdom.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
You haven't said much of the Slavs or as I remember in the time-line at least not in great detail compared to the other groups. In OTL groups like the Bulgars and Avars generally used mainly Slavs in their military so is it safe to assume that at least for the Hunnic Kingdom that it mainly uses a pool of Slavs.
The Bulgars and Avars haven't appeared yet, either.
The Slavs are in Poland right now, so probably not.
You know Xwarq, I saw your posting the SPQR on that ISOT world thread, and I'm pretty disappointed with how little of Europe the SPQR seems to get ahold of. I know it'll never be quite the Rome that was, but still.
I'm a little embarrassed by my great hopes for it becoming bigger than that, but as long as you make the ride enjoyable I guess...
I'm a little embarrassed by my great hopes for it becoming bigger than that, but as long as you make the ride enjoyable I guess...