Hey, one thing though - the 1940's were a rather wet period, certainly no water restrictions in oz. that had to wait till the 1960s, water was running brown in taps and police chaplains were being told they would have to console police shooting rioters
Decades of Darkness
- Thread starter Jared
- Start date
The 1940s were a wet period in OTL, certainly. I'm not sure whether the climate would have changed in the DoD TL, though. The greater human presence on the continent has led to considerably more deforestation than at the same point
Even if *Australia is relatively wet at the time, water restrictions have been permanently in place since the Great War. This is a function of the broader and much earlier *environmentalist movement in Australia ITTL, which is trying to do a number of things to make the country more sustainable. Restrictions on water consumption are one of the positive effects; (uneconomic) use of ethanol fuels is one of the negative effects.
By the gods, I have finally gotten completley caught up with this timeline, is taken me since Thanksgiving Weekend....But I can proudly say...Mission Accomplished lol. Truly one of the greatest Pieces of Art to ever grace this humble forum, Your masterpiece Jared has managed to do what we as all AH Writers. To be able to create an entire Universe, and have you reader abolutley sumbermeged into it. Part of me wishes it go up to the modern day, but I actually like that it had a Personal Conclusionary date and that you didn't make finishing the timeline your only venture. I do have a few questions about ITTL.
1. I know you discussed alot about the development of Liberia, and the Carribean...their seems to be a disconnect on the treatment of Blacks in New England proper? I know Racial Categorization seemed to fade away by the late 19th century, that doesn't meen all Civil Rights hurdles were crossed in one bound...Has there been any elected Black officals; Radical, Vitalist or Socialist either wise? What are Housing conditions generally like for Blacks as well as education level/success rate? How long will it take for us to see an African Yankee elected POTUS?
2. Why didn't President Mullins use or plan to use New England's freeze out in the Peace Agreement of the Great War as call for reperations to invade Canada outright? There seems so much living space, for the overcrowded New England Population to spread westward into Canada, but not really a strong movement supporting it...why?
3. Whats up with all the lesbian Relationships lol jk
, But as a Gay guy I really felt like you only showed us half of the coin of living in such a repressed era as the early 20th century lol.
Im sure Ill have more questions as my brains mulls over things over the Christmas break...Keep it comming
1. I know you discussed alot about the development of Liberia, and the Carribean...their seems to be a disconnect on the treatment of Blacks in New England proper? I know Racial Categorization seemed to fade away by the late 19th century, that doesn't meen all Civil Rights hurdles were crossed in one bound...Has there been any elected Black officals; Radical, Vitalist or Socialist either wise? What are Housing conditions generally like for Blacks as well as education level/success rate? How long will it take for us to see an African Yankee elected POTUS?
2. Why didn't President Mullins use or plan to use New England's freeze out in the Peace Agreement of the Great War as call for reperations to invade Canada outright? There seems so much living space, for the overcrowded New England Population to spread westward into Canada, but not really a strong movement supporting it...why?
3. Whats up with all the lesbian Relationships lol jk
, But as a Gay guy I really felt like you only showed us half of the coin of living in such a repressed era as the early 20th century lol.Im sure Ill have more questions as my brains mulls over things over the Christmas break...Keep it comming
Congratulations on making it to the end. 'Tis a bit of a challenge to read.
Racial categorisation and associated formal discrimination was stripped away during the latter half of the nineteenth century. This was mostly due to a dislike of anything which was seen as being "American".
Informal discrimination, however, was harder to remove.
There have been a few elected officials and the like, mostly at the state level (in predominantly black districts). In terms of housing conditions and broader socioeconomic status, they are still mostly at the lower levels of society. This is complicated by the massive influx of Dominican refugees. The Dominicans, being poor and often Spanish-speaking, were mostly left at the lower levels of society. Some of the "native born" blacks (real blacks, as they call themselves) were of higher status and look down on the Dominicans for that reason.
An African Yankee elected as POTUS would be quite a feat; the *USA of TTL still has the same clause in its constitution about needing to be a natural born citizen, and as for *Americans electing an African...
Having an African Yankee elected as Governor-General of the Commonwealth of New England (in the post-Mullins era) would be easier, but only slightly. Perhaps not impossible; if Rodney Ironfist had survived the war, he probably would have been electable, for instance. But it would take someone of extraordinary prominence in a field other than politics, who would then be able to make the transition to politics. A military figure, most likely, or perhaps a particularly successful businessman. (Think the Yankee equivalent of Richard Branson.)
Who says that he didn't? Remember that the history of Canada ITTL has been left unwritten since the mid-1920s (to be covered in a Tales post, although the guest author has gone incommunicado). But there have been some references to Yankee involvement in Canada in the later 1920s... of which more anon.
3. Whats up with all the lesbian Relationships lol jk
Well, there were two serious lesbian relationships depicted, and two serious gay male relationships depicted, so it seems fairly even to me. Granted, the lesbian relationships got somewhat more airtime, but that was because I was showing not only the challenges of being a lesbian in that era, but also the challenges of being a woman in a male-dominated society. So giving the lesbian relationships more airtime let me show both of those things at once.
Well after four weeks of reading, ive finally finished this TL from start to finish. I must say this is not ONLY VERY well done and put together, but this could make a VERY successful novel, or set of novels. Hell i know id buy it in novel form.
And yet it has also left me confused. I am really missing the whole dystopian feel of TTL. I mean yes there is an TEH EV0L!!!!!!!!!!!111111one slave holding USA that is trying to conquer all of the Americas. But is actually seems to be ahead of our world in some ways:
1. NO NUKES!!!!! Unless i read the subtle parts where nukes become hinted at wrong, then it seems that nuclear weapons have not infact been put into action as the driving force behind the modern sense of Globalism that we see today in our world yet there are CLEAR signs of it forming along VERY similar lines to our world, such as the Council of Nations being formed to "discuss?" international problems in spite of the fact that the Superpowers really dont need to do this because they could just do it through proxy wars and the like, since they effectively rule the world between them. I mean one of the biggest reasons, IMHO at least, that the UN did not fall apart IOTL was because of the threat of nuclear arms and attacks. In this world why would the superpowers have any real need to do this, since they cant just push a button and kill us all? ((Maybe its just my perception that all dystopias need WMDs of many kinds to really BE dystopias.))
2. Numerous social issues seem to be progressing at MUCH faster clip in TTL, as compared to OTL. I mean we have environmentalism 40 or so years early as compared to OTL movements at least and LGBT((spelling/order?)) types of things seem to be a LOT more acceptable in this world than our own ((of course that may just be my perception of the lesbian/gay relationships ITTL at work)).
3. No mentioned genocides/Holocaust type events. Now that may have been for the benefit of the board considering the massive amount of controversy/drama that a certain......series of incidents in Eastern Anatolia causes on this board. However, this kind of detracts from the dystopic feel, for me at least. Maybe its because of my own insanity but i simply feel that several opportunities were missed to demonstrate the TEH EV0L!!!!!!!!111one of this world other than the Americans fire-squads. And even those seemed limited to me, if i was reading it right of course.
4. Very few obvious hell-hole areas in this world. What i mean by this is that there are very few if any place that would be comparable to Africa of OTL in DoD. I mean you have the Chinas and bits of South America but on the whole the world doesnt have any glaring and in ur face places that dont seem to be getting any better for a HUGE amount of time like Africa and parts of eastern europe and the middle easdt are in our TL what with there being now Israel to cause jihads, neo-genocides, and other such evil things.
5. Lacking a sense of permanence. What i mean by this is the simple fact that the only areas of dystopia ive seen ITTL America doesnt seem like its going to be dystopic for too terribly much longer what with the new inventions of stuff to replace slave cause revoltutions. ((Side note: A super communist/anarchist/Marxist United Americas in this world would be EPIC. Just sayin if u decide to ever continue this.)) I mean when things go wrong they may be really bad but it doesnt ever last, and things always get better after wards without fail. ((Once again this may just be my own perceptions of a dystopia clouding my judgement.))
All in all, however, an awesome read and i thoroughly enjoyed it. Looking forward to more Lands of Red and Gold.
And yet it has also left me confused. I am really missing the whole dystopian feel of TTL. I mean yes there is an TEH EV0L!!!!!!!!!!!111111one slave holding USA that is trying to conquer all of the Americas. But is actually seems to be ahead of our world in some ways:
1. NO NUKES!!!!! Unless i read the subtle parts where nukes become hinted at wrong, then it seems that nuclear weapons have not infact been put into action as the driving force behind the modern sense of Globalism that we see today in our world yet there are CLEAR signs of it forming along VERY similar lines to our world, such as the Council of Nations being formed to "discuss?" international problems in spite of the fact that the Superpowers really dont need to do this because they could just do it through proxy wars and the like, since they effectively rule the world between them. I mean one of the biggest reasons, IMHO at least, that the UN did not fall apart IOTL was because of the threat of nuclear arms and attacks. In this world why would the superpowers have any real need to do this, since they cant just push a button and kill us all? ((Maybe its just my perception that all dystopias need WMDs of many kinds to really BE dystopias.))
2. Numerous social issues seem to be progressing at MUCH faster clip in TTL, as compared to OTL. I mean we have environmentalism 40 or so years early as compared to OTL movements at least and LGBT((spelling/order?)) types of things seem to be a LOT more acceptable in this world than our own ((of course that may just be my perception of the lesbian/gay relationships ITTL at work)).
3. No mentioned genocides/Holocaust type events. Now that may have been for the benefit of the board considering the massive amount of controversy/drama that a certain......series of incidents in Eastern Anatolia causes on this board. However, this kind of detracts from the dystopic feel, for me at least. Maybe its because of my own insanity but i simply feel that several opportunities were missed to demonstrate the TEH EV0L!!!!!!!!111one of this world other than the Americans fire-squads. And even those seemed limited to me, if i was reading it right of course.
4. Very few obvious hell-hole areas in this world. What i mean by this is that there are very few if any place that would be comparable to Africa of OTL in DoD. I mean you have the Chinas and bits of South America but on the whole the world doesnt have any glaring and in ur face places that dont seem to be getting any better for a HUGE amount of time like Africa and parts of eastern europe and the middle easdt are in our TL what with there being now Israel to cause jihads, neo-genocides, and other such evil things.
5. Lacking a sense of permanence. What i mean by this is the simple fact that the only areas of dystopia ive seen ITTL America doesnt seem like its going to be dystopic for too terribly much longer what with the new inventions of stuff to replace slave cause revoltutions. ((Side note: A super communist/anarchist/Marxist United Americas in this world would be EPIC. Just sayin if u decide to ever continue this.)) I mean when things go wrong they may be really bad but it doesnt ever last, and things always get better after wards without fail. ((Once again this may just be my own perceptions of a dystopia clouding my judgement.))
All in all, however, an awesome read and i thoroughly enjoyed it. Looking forward to more Lands of Red and Gold.
Well after four weeks of reading, ive finally finished this TL from start to finish. I must say this is not ONLY VERY well done and put together, but this could make a VERY successful novel, or set of novels. Hell i know id buy it in novel form.
And yet it has also left me confused. I am really missing the whole dystopian feel of TTL. I mean yes there is an TEH EV0L!!!!!!!!!!!111111one slave holding USA that is trying to conquer all of the Americas. But is actually seems to be ahead of our world in some ways:
1. NO NUKES!!!!! Unless i read the subtle parts where nukes become hinted at wrong, then it seems that nuclear weapons have not infact been put into action as the driving force behind the modern sense of Globalism that we see today in our world yet there are CLEAR signs of it forming along VERY similar lines to our world, such as the Council of Nations being formed to "discuss?" international problems in spite of the fact that the Superpowers really dont need to do this because they could just do it through proxy wars and the like, since they effectively rule the world between them. I mean one of the biggest reasons, IMHO at least, that the UN did not fall apart IOTL was because of the threat of nuclear arms and attacks. In this world why would the superpowers have any real need to do this, since they cant just push a button and kill us all? ((Maybe its just my perception that all dystopias need WMDs of many kinds to really BE dystopias.))
2. Numerous social issues seem to be progressing at MUCH faster clip in TTL, as compared to OTL. I mean we have environmentalism 40 or so years early as compared to OTL movements at least and LGBT((spelling/order?)) types of things seem to be a LOT more acceptable in this world than our own ((of course that may just be my perception of the lesbian/gay relationships ITTL at work)).
3. No mentioned genocides/Holocaust type events. Now that may have been for the benefit of the board considering the massive amount of controversy/drama that a certain......series of incidents in Eastern Anatolia causes on this board. However, this kind of detracts from the dystopic feel, for me at least. Maybe its because of my own insanity but i simply feel that several opportunities were missed to demonstrate the TEH EV0L!!!!!!!!111one of this world other than the Americans fire-squads. And even those seemed limited to me, if i was reading it right of course.
4. Very few obvious hell-hole areas in this world. What i mean by this is that there are very few if any place that would be comparable to Africa of OTL in DoD. I mean you have the Chinas and bits of South America but on the whole the world doesnt have any glaring and in ur face places that dont seem to be getting any better for a HUGE amount of time like Africa and parts of eastern europe and the middle easdt are in our TL what with there being now Israel to cause jihads, neo-genocides, and other such evil things.
5. Lacking a sense of permanence. What i mean by this is the simple fact that the only areas of dystopia ive seen ITTL America doesnt seem like its going to be dystopic for too terribly much longer what with the new inventions of stuff to replace slave cause revoltutions. ((Side note: A super communist/anarchist/Marxist United Americas in this world would be EPIC. Just sayin if u decide to ever continue this.)) I mean when things go wrong they may be really bad but it doesnt ever last, and things always get better after wards without fail. ((Once again this may just be my own perceptions of a dystopia clouding my judgement.))
All in all, however, an awesome read and i thoroughly enjoyed it. Looking forward to more Lands of Red and Gold.
Your first point concerning no nukes? Funny you mention that... the future of the DoD has a novel by Jared himself concerning this issue! "The Fox and the Jackal." A warning of major spoilers for those who have not finished the main timeline of Decades of Darkness yet.
As for points 2-5... I would have to disagree with you there concerning how there are "very few obvious hell-hole areas" in this world...
While I'm here: Jared, is it ok with you if I released on this thread the details concerning the government structure of the Commonwealth of New England? I thought it would be good for public reference, if nothing else.
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Firstly the news (to me at least) that there will be a series of DoD novels is AWESOMENESS and WIN of the highest order. I will be sure to buy them all if i can find them.
I know that the USA is meant to be evil and demonic in this world. However it is not a hellhole in the sense that it is a place where the government can mind-control you, where people are slaughtered on a daily basis and it is a part of the culture/national law/intermittent wars and civil strife. It is a Superpower in this world, along with a Parliamentary Russian Empire and a German-led European Union. It can dictate world policy just as the OTL USA can. It is a relatively developed power, and it can not only feed and protect its people, but provide them with the most up to date and modern services possible. How is this place comparable to a dystopian hellhole like Oceanian Britain from 1984, where executions take the place of sporting events, the government watches u at all times and CAN CONTROL WHAT U THINK, people starve on a regular basis, the government launches missiles into it own territory to keep the people in fear of "enemy" invasions, and where humanity itself is turning into a depraved blood-thirsty entity? Or how can it be compared to OTL Africa, were civil strife is common, people starve everyday, evil tinpot dictators rise to power everyday only to fall the next, were people believe that if u eat a pygmy person it will give u magical powers, and where millions are murdered with LITTLE TO NONE of the usual worldwide condemnation or aid that would happen in a more developed area?As for points 2-5... I would have to disagree with you there concerning how there are "very few obvious hell-hole areas" in this world...
Again im not attacking Jared's TL. I think it is an AWESOME TL that deserves its own series of books. However, i just question the dystopian-ness of DoD, that is all.
Honestly this "USA" reminded me more of a much more liberal (At least for white ppl) USSR than anything else.
Funny you should mention that. It's been previously mentioned that DoD's USA is suppose to be a realistic version of the Drakaverse. Now, IIRC, the Draka was suppose to be based on the USSR, or at least the Western view of it...which of course means that "similarities" between the USSR and DoD's USA should possibly occur.
So yeah...That's today's fun fact.
I see where you are coming from. But I feel I must play devil's advocate.
For starters we need to consider that this world has not seen the genocidal likes of Hitler's regime, or the unchecked bloody authoriatarianism of Stalinism. Colonialism also seems to have been resolved better in Africa and Asia leaving the liberated peoples in a more stable position than OTL with a better chance for developing stabvle free government in general. Anmd the remaining colonies are set for either equal integration with their overlords or vast autonomy.
That being said the Americas are worse off. Still unlike Stalinism, Nazism, or whatever name is given for the tin pot tyrants of the PEriphery there are several promising signs.
1. Time has shown an expansion of liberty and oppotunity in *America. Anglo males havbe gone from clear dominance to sharing power with LAtin populations and women from both populations. Senator Griffin and her husband stand as examples, even O'Brian. It is clearly a work in progress, but progress is evident, and it seems likely that rights will continue to be expanded however slowly.
2. As shown by the final scene featuring Oliver Bird, slavery is about to take a blow to the jewels with the advent of automation. So change is coming. Perhaps things will get worse, but they may get better. Either way there is the hope usually lacking un dystopias.
3. The SEPT shows that basic concerns for human rights remains alive even among the oppressor class. The fact such a group exists and is allowed to continue to function legally shows some cracks in the armor for the insitution of human bondage.
So again the situation is far from ideal but there is at least hope that time will see things get better rather than worse.
IIRC, Jared has said that the Western Hemisphere is pretty much universally dystopic (slaveholding USA, fascist New England, Canada mired in civil war, Remaining non-subjugated South American nations not having a good time of it obviously. The remnants of the UK and France are obviously very dystopic as well.
On the other hand, some parts of the world did do better. Germany is far more powerful. Russia is not only more powerful, but more democratic and progressive. *Liberia is going through a spot of trouble, but light years ahead of its OTL namesake. The nations of the Restored Empire are set to do better than their OTL counterparts, in part due to the large number of people fleeing France and Britain.
So yes, it's not a univeral dystopia. But hell, from a DOD standpoint, our own history looks like a Russian and German dystopia.
On the other hand, some parts of the world did do better. Germany is far more powerful. Russia is not only more powerful, but more democratic and progressive. *Liberia is going through a spot of trouble, but light years ahead of its OTL namesake. The nations of the Restored Empire are set to do better than their OTL counterparts, in part due to the large number of people fleeing France and Britain.
So yes, it's not a univeral dystopia. But hell, from a DOD standpoint, our own history looks like a Russian and German dystopia.
Well I feel I should point out two things in responce.
1. New England was fascist. The military performed a coup against the Vitalist and now the mddle left under the Christian Socialists seem set to reform that country.
2. As for France we really have no insight on daily life in the former France. The Germans are more concerned woth keeping the French divided and weak than ruling them. So aside from curtailing Pan French movements and supporting collasbvoratros the Germans may have a relatively light touch in their overlordship west of the border.
The rest I concede is very bad.
1. True, but it's a hell of a past to live down. New England will never be as unsullied (or probably as prosperous) as the same region in OTL.
2. I think the existence of the libres (the French diaspora which ends up far afield in places like the U.S. and South Africa) suggests that at minimum things are economically bad enough that francophones migrate en masse.
I tend to get torn when reading this sometimes as well.
While the slavery is horrible, it doesn't compare to the genocides, famines, resettlements of OTL from WW2, Soviet Union, Mao's China.
But in saying that, we are reading a lot of historical documents from biased authros and things can tend to get cut out.
I wonder what the total deaths from American-occupied Latin nations would actually be. I suspect it would be climbing pretty high, though they still tend to ensalve people rather than kill them or send them to gulags. Both are evil acts but I would say extermination is worse.
While the slavery is horrible, it doesn't compare to the genocides, famines, resettlements of OTL from WW2, Soviet Union, Mao's China.
But in saying that, we are reading a lot of historical documents from biased authros and things can tend to get cut out.
I wonder what the total deaths from American-occupied Latin nations would actually be. I suspect it would be climbing pretty high, though they still tend to ensalve people rather than kill them or send them to gulags. Both are evil acts but I would say extermination is worse.
Bill Cameron
Banned
Teleology,
Guess what. That's what actually happened in history.
During the OTL War of 1812, Federalists in the New England states called a convention in Hartford that, among other things, decided on presenting a "States' Rights" amendment to the Constitution.
It all came to naught when the Conventions' chosen representatives arrived in Washington with the Conventions' "demands" only to find that the peace treaty arrived at the same time. The backlash from the Hartford Convention then destroyed the Federalists as a political party on both a national and state level.
Read about it here.
Jared "borrowed" a real world event and modified it somewhat. Jefferson dies earlier, the embargo stays in place longer, New England more angry more earlier, and the world goes to hell.
Quite an eye opener, isn't it? Without resorting to "cinematics", Jared took an actual historical event, applied "plausible" events, and produced not only a "realistic" alternate history but quite a fantastic one too.
Bill
Bill Cameron
Banned
And besides who cares if its plausible as long as its entertaining.....
T3h_shammy,
Shame on you!
Bill
Well after four weeks of reading, ive finally finished this TL from start to finish. I must say this is not ONLY VERY well done and put together, but this could make a VERY successful novel, or set of novels. Hell i know id buy it in novel form.
Thank'ee.
DoD is meant to be more complex than just a simple, drearily endlessly evil dystopia. I prefer a morally ambiguous world to unrelentingly evil - and I think it's more realistic, too. So DoD features a dystopic US of A, certainly, but the world as a whole is meant to be a lot harder to judge.
It's ahead in some ways, yet behind in others. And plenty of areas where it's different, but it would take a braver person than me to say whether it's better or worse.
Globalism predates the invention of nuclear weapons; it was a pretty natural reaction to any devastating global war. In OTL, the League of Nations emerged after WW1, but was pretty toothless except as a forum for international communication. The exact functioning of the Council of Nations has not been specified, but it's a safe assumption that it's closer to the OTL League rather than, say, the United Nations.
I certainly wouldn't think that a dystopia needs WMDs to be a dystopia. To pick a couple of literary examples, Brave New World and 1984 did not rely on WMDs to be dystopias. WMDs were at most incidental to those instances.
On a broader note, I don't think that a lack of WMDs makes for a non-dystopic world. Despite all of their horrors, one of the most noticeable effects of nukes is that they have produced a long period of peace between the major powers. (Yes, proxy wars, I know, but that's not the same thing.)
The DoDverse of the post-Great War era does not have nukes, at least for a while. Peace lasts for some time since the Great War itself was so destructive that no-one particularly wants to repeat the experience. But that doesn't mean, of course, that this state of affairs will last forever. As memories of the war fade, tensions will inevitably rise.
Plus, of course, nothing says that the DoD world will not someday be consumed by atomic fire. It just hasn't happened yet.
Environmentalism is progressing earlier than in OTL, 1930s rather than 1960s. But this is the result of consequences - the environmental damage to parts of the world (especially Australia) is much worse than what happened at the same point in OTL. This is what produced the earlier reaction, after all - it was a natural response to the greater ecological damage. I'm not sure if this is a huge improvement over OTL.
For world views of LGBT, there was a Tales post in the works which would have shown this part of the DoDverse in more detail. Unfortunately, it got cancelled as the author had too many other commitments.
In short, though, note that there is not one character in the DoD TL who openly proclaims to the world that they are gay or lesbian. Not one. Julia Gordon Walker's biggest problem was that for social reasons she had to appear to be straight and married to a man.
Yes, Anna Mitchell and Diane Grant were in a position where much of America learned what happened, but that still was never published in any respectable newspaper; it was considered too scandalous. In OTL around this period, there would likely have been a similar reaction. Naturally, people in both TTL and OTL were aware of lesbianism, but it wasn't something which was talked about openly.
It depends on your point of view, of course, but personally I'd consider the ongoing experience of slavery for tens of millions of people to be its own form of holocaust. No, it's not the same as genocide, exactly, but it's a form of living hell which is perpetuated on generation after general born into bondage. It's ugly, and it is being imposed on much of the world.
Nothing says that the *USA won't succeed in exporting some aspects of its ideology as the Silent War progresses, either. Probably not in exactly the same form as within the *USA, but given that de facto slavery reemerged in parts of the world in OTL during the twentieth century (Nazis, Soviet Union), other people may decide to follow the *USA's example.
It's certainly the case that I prefer not to describe genocides and related ugly situations in lavish detail. It's rather depressing and difficult to write, for one thing, and hard to read, for another. That's why there's limited description of the day to day lives of slaves and peons, for instance.
However, those things are still around, and still ugly.
The fire-squads are probably the worst aspect of the DoDverse in terms of deliberate genocide that's been mentioned so far (although there's been ethnic cleansing on a huge scale). And the thing to remember is that the *USA now has a much larger territory to hold down after the Great War. Will they be tempted to use fire-squads over a larger area?
TTL's Africa is different to OTL, but outside of South Africa and maybe Liberia (depending on what Duvalier's regime ends up like), I'm not sure if it's necessarily going to be better. Sure, decolonisation has taken a somewhat different track, but Africa (and some parts of Asia) are also the key battlegrounds for the Silent War. A three-sided war where every side has an interest in destablising its' opponents regimes, fighting proxy wars, etc, etc. Maybe the outcome will be better than in OTL, but I'd hardly call it assured.
There's also the fact that quite a few other areas of the world are hardly nice places, and worse than in OTL, even if not necessarily complete hellholes. Germany sitting on France and most of western Europe, for instance, or Russia holding down Turkey, Persia/Iran, northern China, etc.
I wouldn't call the *USA the only dystopic area ITTL. The worst, probably, but not the only.
On a more general note, I don't expect the *USA slavery system to stay static. Endlessly social static systems are unrealistic, as far as I can tell from history. So the *US system is going to change with the advent of new technology.
Change, of course, does not always equal better. Fer'instance, slave prices in the *USA are likely to fall. This is not entirely a good thing. High slave prices means that slaves are valuable, and so are less likely to be mistreated.
Falling slave prices, well...
Part of the reason DoD was written with the ending that it had was simply because I wanted things to be ambiguous. Real history (as opposed to endless dystopias) is rarely about all good or all bad, or all hope or all doom. Things are usually somewhere in between, and I wanted it to be up to the readers to make up their own minds which way the world was likely to go.
So, yes, there is some hope. Perhaps slaves will be largely replaced by new technology. There are people concerned about the welfare of peons. Maybe some of the beginnings of liberal social trends in the *USA will be continued. But there's also potential for decay. Amber Jarett epitomises a developing philosophy of American exceptionalism in the worst possible way... an American race rather than a white race, and a belief that endless war is inevitable. The idea of the fire-squads has been developed, and won't go away. Falling slave prices may lead to emancipation, or it may just lead to badly-treated slaves who are seen as easily replaceable.
As a reader, you get to make up your own mind how you think the future is going to go. Well... until and unless I get some novels published.
Go ahead and post it, by all means. It's not secret information or anything.
Certainly, the *USA is one of three superpowers. However, while the other two are probably nicer than, say, Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, they aren't entirely nice, either. Especially to other nationalities. (France, Turkey, Persia, etc, etc.)
The *USA is not a mind-numbing dystopia like 1984, but then I don't think that something like Oceania could happen in the real world anyway. (Unless the "Britain is North Korea" theory is true.) Personally, I think that a dystopic nation which has at least a faint possibility of maybe happening is scarier than something which, while chilling, is not realistically going to happen. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Nothing says that won't happen ITTL's Africa either. Africa is still a battleground ITTL, and there's more factions involved. Perhaps Africa will turn out better, but there's no guarantees.
One of the points of DoD is to make people think about what would be morally worse. Is it better or worse to have more people alive, but many of them bound to generation after generation of bondage and toil, or to have many people killed in genocides? Is death better or worse than living in suffering?
I don't pretend to have the answer to those questions, of course, but the idea is to give people a chance to think about them.
While it wasn't originally intentional, it has been pointed out that in many ways the *USA has turned out like some distorted libertarian version of the CSA. Drugs are legal, but so is slavery. And everyone has as much freedom as they can afford.
Funny you should mention that. It's been previously mentioned that DoD's USA is suppose to be a realistic version of the Drakaverse. Now, IIRC, the Draka was suppose to be based on the USSR, or at least the Western view of it...which of course means that "similarities" between the USSR and DoD's USA should possibly occur.
So yeah...That's today's fun fact.
I think that the Draka were meant to be Sparta writ large more than anything else, with a dose of apartheid era South Africa.
Still, the DoD USA is also meant to be a case of the worst trends of the American Revolution continuing (defence of slavery, etc), rather than the best.
Up to a point, yes. But the downside is that the alternative ending of the Great War means that there's now far fewer restraints on superpowers intefering in former colonies, or going re-conquering.
In OTL, for all of the problems of the United Nations, there's one amazing fact about the UN: not one member state of the UN has ever been forcibly annexed. Not one. Ever. Puppet states, proxy wars and the like, yes; forcible annexation, no. One of the effects of WW2 was the defeat of expansionistic powers. This led to the view of legitimate governments and international recognition which meant that forcible takeovers were not really allowed. Not to mention the anticolonial stance of both of the superpowers, and the presence of nukes restraining direct war between the superpowers.
In the DoD TL, things are different. No nukes. The Council of Nations has as much power as the superpowers allow it. Many of the victors of the Great War embarked on unashamedly expansionistic wars, and got away with it. Imperialistic expansion is still on the cards, even if some of the powers have been forced to give up some of their current colonies (especially Germany). This means the potential for fresh wars of conquest, and much greater interference, destabilisation etc in former colonial nations. Not to mention the three-and-a-half sided struggle of the Silent War leading to more motivation for intervention and proxy wars.
It's entirely possible, but by no means assured. As has been shown in the DoD TL, there are developing trends both for greater liberalism (eg Plutarco Bautista, Cordell Hull, Faith Griffin Bautista) and for greater militarism/ authoritarianism (Jefferson Davis Caden, Fierro, etc). It's still an open question as to which side will win out.
Certainly, there's an element of hope. That was deliberate. It doesn't mean, though, that things are guaranteed to get better.
And there are also some clear hints that parts of this world's future will be worse. Probably the biggest of those is the early emergence of *AIDS - which TTL will call Aspergers, in one of life's little ironies.
As was shown in one of the closing posts, HIV1 has made the jump to humans earlier than happened in OTL. It was spread to Britain and then Europe through soldiers being recruited from Africa for the Great War. It will spread by several vectors, of which perhaps the worst is blood transfusions. The medical technology needed to detect a retrovirus in blood is decades away at this point. This is not a good situation.
New England is formerly fascist, although what it turns into by the 1950s may not be much better, depending on your point of view. Canada's fate is... uncertain, to say the least. The rest of the New World is, of course, not looking good.
Quite, although note that the Restored Empire != to the former British Empire. Not all nations may end up as members, especially India - the status of India is another one which has been left undescribed until the appropriate Tale comes out.
Very much so, although note that neither Germany nor Russia are entirely "good" nations ITTL, either. Especially to some of their recent conquests.
It's quite true that there's no detailed description of life in France-that-was. However, even the fact that it's been broken apart and needs to be forcibly held apart is something of a hint that all is not well. Probably not 1984-era double plus ungood, but all is not well.
Or politically bad enough, which leads to the same result.
This is partly linked to the moral dilemma I mentioned above, although note that there have been extensive resettlements ITTL. Actual resettlements, that is, not Nazi euphemisms. Much of the Caribbean has been ethnically cleansed, for instance.
Very much so. For instance, one thing which was pointed out in the section on the fire-squads was that the *USA admits to 50,000 deaths, and that the true number was higher. A lot of other historical events will be similarly glossed over, particularly from American sources, but also from others.
The ongoing horror of slavery is wholly despicable, of course. I don't know which is worse, but as mentioned above, one of the ideas was to make people think about these things.
As Bill Cameron pointed out, this is what happened. The Hartford Convention report presented ITTL is changed only very slightly from what they presented in real history. The other circumstances meant that the Federalists were more successful, but their ATL policies were what they argued for in OTL too at this period.
And besides who cares if its plausible as long as its entertaining.....
Shame on you!
Timelines on AH.com are usually expected to show some vague plausibility, ASB and FH notwithstanding. When reading published AH, though, I can put plausibility concerns to one side if the story is well-written, entertaining, and/or thought-provoking.
Of course, most published AH fails on that score, but not all, by any means. Guns of the South, fer'instance, was implausible even from its internal logic, but still, I found it a fun read. Same goes for Peshawar Lancers.