If I recall, many Democrats were pleading for Humphrey to run in 1976 due to the relatively weak field and the general distrust of Carter with his southern upbringing. While Humphrey did express interest in the idea of being a compromise candidate should the convention deadlock, Humphrey made practically no attempt for the candidacy, most likely due to the cancer that would eventually kill him nearly 2 years later. So let's say that Humphrey never gets cancer or manages to get it treated early enough (this thread mentions that he did notice blood in his urine back in 1968, but chose not to have it checked due to not wanting to hurt his presidential campaign).

I do believe a healthy, cancerless Humphrey would probably run and win the nomination given that many people expected/wanted him to run and would arguably be a stronger candidate than Carter in terms of recognition, though he would problems of his own (age, association with Johnson, lost 3 previous chances of becoming president). But even despite those issues, I think he would be the favorite to win the election compared to Ford.

In which case, how well does Humphrey do in the election? Who would be his running mate? What does he do as president? Does he have anymore of a chance at reelection than Carter? Remember that we're removing his cancer out of the picture, so he probably won't die during his presidency (after all he was the same age as Reagan and he lived up until 2004).
 
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Assuming Humphrey is indeed healthy (tall order), he may win 1964 Johnson tier. Well, unless he talks to Playboy.
 
Assuming Humphrey is indeed healthy (tall order), he may win 1964 Johnson tier. Well, unless he talks to Playboy.

I have heard that the Playboy interview cost Carter 15 points in the polls. I think Humphrey, if nominated, would have done much worse in the South but better in the North and West.
 
I have heard that the Playboy interview cost Carter 15 points in the polls. I think Humphrey, if nominated, would have done much worse in the South but better in the North and West.
Fif…fifteen?!

If we do a uniform swing of 15 points how much does Carter win by?!
 
Fif…fifteen?!

If we do a uniform swing of 15 points how much does Carter win by?!

A uniform swing of 15 points in the electoral college results in Carter winning every state except Utah.

This would not have happened even if Carter had not sat down with Playboy (momentum was moving toward Ford and that would have occurred with or without the interview) but Carter would have won by 7-8 points instead of 2.
 
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Deleted member 145219

If I recall, many Democrats were pleading for Humphrey to run in 1976 due to the relatively weak field and the general distrust of Carter with his southern upbringing. While Humphrey did express interest in the idea of being a compromise candidate should the convention deadlock, Humphrey made practically no attempt for the candidacy, most likely due to the cancer that would eventually kill in nearly 2 years later. So let's say that Humphrey never gets cancer or manages to get it treated early enough (this thread mentions that he did notice blood in his urine back in 1969, but chose not to have it checked due to not wanting to hurt his presidential campaign).

I do believe a healthy, cancerless Humphrey would probably run and win the nomination given that many people expected/wanted him to run and would be arguably be a stronger candidate than Carter in terms of recognition, though he would problems of his own (Age, association with Johnson, lost 3 previous chances of becoming president). But even despite those issue, I think he would be the favorite to win the election compared to Ford.

In which case, how well does Humphrey do in the election? Who would be his running mate? What does he do as president? Does he have anymore of a chance at reelection than Carter? Remember that we're removing his cancer out of the picture, so he probably won't die during his presidency (after all he was the same age as Reagan and he lived up until 2004).
I've heard the same thing about Humphrey not getting treatment sooner believing it would harm his Presidential prospects. I think he also had the opportunity to have his bladder removed in 1971, but chose not too.

A cancer free President Hubert Humphrey likely would have been a far more capable President than Carter and definitely would not have a primary challenge from Ted Kennedy. I get the sense that Carter's rising so rapidly resulted in a very precarious political base that was prone to collapse under pressure. A successful President Humphrey, serving from 1977 to 1985, would be quite a story of redemption for the "Happy Warrior," and might have prevented or at least delayed the decline of the New Deal era. Perhaps he's succeeded by his vice president Lloyd Bentsen or Jimmy Carter? Maybe Reubin Askew?

Presidents List in a Health Humphrey Verse

Gerald Ford 1974 - 1977
Hubert H. Humphrey 1977 - 1985
Lloyd Bentsen 1985 - 1993

John Heinz 1993 - 2001



I also think that 1976 would have been the right time for RFK, had he survived. I have some pretty serious doubts about RFK's prospects for the nomination in 1968, especially if he had an uneventful trip through the Hotel after his victory speech.
 
I think he also had the opportunity to have his bladder removed in 1971, but chose not too.

This. A "healthy" Humphrey is actually not that implausible. All that is required is a bladderless Humphrey, and, as mentioned, he was given the option to have it removed in 1971 (I thought 1970, but admit I'm not sure) and chose not to.

The next hurdle to get Humphrey to the White House is that he must choose to run in the primaries. For an old school politician like Humphrey who had once won the nomination without going through this new ritual, this is easier said than done. However, he may look at his '72 loss and learn the right lesson: He had to enter the primaries early and campaign in a big way. If he did, he can win Iowa. Carter's strong second place showing will likely be the story -- the press craves a horse race and hates a coronation.

New Hampshire, with its contrarian streak, may also be a bit difficult, but ultimately Humphrey will have the superior operation and should dispose of Carter before the Convention (though I think it might be closer than most of us are inclined to give Jimmy credit for).

Humphrey likely follows Carter's lead and goes forth with the Panama Canal Treaties, which riles the right. That said, he likely also pursues health care reform with Kennedy at his side. We have a tendency, I think, to blame Carter for the lack of health care reform, but the truth is, the votes for Kennedy's bill were likely not there, and to get Kennedy to agree to a smaller package, you're going to need to go through a pretty difficult legislative battle in which you bleed political capital ahead of the Midterms. Success is no guarantee, but the Democrats can probably cobble together a modest health care reform measure.

The question of a Humphrey second term comes down to two matters: the economy and the Hostage Crisis. Starting with the latter, Humphrey is an interesting person to put in the Oval when the Shah needs refuge. In some ways, he's less likely to cave to the foreign policy manipulations of Kissinger and Rockefeller. At the same time, he is himself a cancer survivor and the condition of the Shah was greatly exaggerated to Carter and would be to Humphrey, too. I can't say I know enough to predict whether he takes the Shah, but there's also the possibility that Thatcher, who considered it, does ITTL and the issue isn't one Humphrey has to confront.

It's also possible that, should Humphrey take the Shah, he evacuates the embassy personnel or strengthens security forces at the embassy after the February 1979 attack. Had Carter done that, the November crisis would've been avoided. It seems plausible that Humphrey could do that.

And, if the hostages are taken still, Humphrey is less likely to obsess over them than Carter did. Carter's preoccupation with them brought the round-the-clock attention on the issue, which eventually sapped his approvals, and prevented him from a number of early military decisions that may have brought about their release, namely mining the ports around Iran or instituting a naval blockade.

With how many variables there are, it seems highly unlikely that the Hostage Crisis unfolds in the way it did for Carter.

Second, the economy. There is almost no way that Humphrey appoints Volcker, whose tenure at the Fed greatly contributed to Carter's defeat. Almost any other Democrat would have appointed a more politically-minded Chair who would not have instituted the kind of Shock that helped give Carter the boot. By no means will you have a bustling economy in 1980, but you may have one that's improved from OTL, and that would allow the election to be shifted to foreign policy, an issue where Reagan trailed Carter significantly, even with the Hostage Crisis. If you have Humphrey move in to make a military decision that gets the hostages released after a month or two, the contrast between his steady approach and Reagan's would be stark, and without a totally dreadful economy, voters may let their distrust of Reagan in a room with the big red button get the better of them.

Now, the question is who succeeds Humphrey. I tend to agree with @LivingSteam that 1984 will be a good year for Democrats if Humphrey has managed to win reelection in 1980 -- not assured but well within the realm of plausibility.

Carter himself could be Humphrey's running mate. He would've said yes if asked, he would help tame Humphrey's image as an insider in the post-Watergate world, and he would have exceeded expectations enough that some considered him a good campaigner. That said, he would be, interestingly, the case of a VP who may very well lose the nomination when trying for it. It is doubtful he would've made too many friends after eight years, and he would've been vulnerable to a number of Democrats.

The problem, I think, with Bentsen, is that the appetite to move to the center will not be there if Humphrey has had a strong eight years. If Bentsen is the VP, which he may well be, that's one thing, but he's unlikely to topple a sitting VP.

Interestingly, two plausible running mates, Church and Scoop, did not survive to 1984 IOTL. Either could be chosen and then be replaced by someone else later on -- in which case Humphrey may choose Muskie, who would likely be Sec. of State in a second term and was Humphrey's '68 running mate. I don't think Humphrey would choose him from the start in '76, though.

Wikipedia also mentions Glenn and Stevenson. Both are plausible. Mo Udall is another plausible choice. I honestly think Carter might be his choice for a running mate, and then you could see T. Kennedy or Mo Udall or Gary Hart or Mondale overtake Carter in the '84 primaries.
 
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I've heard the same thing about Humphrey not getting treatment sooner believing it would harm his Presidential prospects. I think he also had the opportunity to have his bladder removed in 1971, but chose not too.

A cancer free President Hubert Humphrey likely would have been a far more capable President than Carter and definitely would not have a primary challenge from Ted Kennedy. I get the sense that Carter's rising so rapidly resulted in a very precarious political base that was prone to collapse under pressure. A successful President Humphrey, serving from 1977 to 1985, would be quite a story of redemption for the "Happy Warrior," and might have prevented or at least delayed the decline of the New Deal era. Perhaps he's succeeded by his vice president Lloyd Bentsen or Jimmy Carter? Maybe Reubin Askew?

Presidents List in a Health Humphrey Verse

Gerald Ford 1974 - 1977
Hubert H. Humphrey 1977 - 1985
Lloyd Bentsen 1985 - 1993

John Heinz 1993 - 2001



I also think that 1976 would have been the right time for RFK, had he survived. I have some pretty serious doubts about RFK's prospects for the nomination in 1968, especially if he had an uneventful trip through the Hotel after his victory speech.

How would Humphrey have handled the challenges of stagflation, Iran, and Afghanistan? He would favor more aggressive government intervention than Carter, who despite his reputation as a feckless liberal President was a centrist on economic policy.
 
I’m thinking a successful Humphrey presidency from 76-85 maybe he fires whoever is the Fed chair is in 76 then replaces that guy with Volcker. He counters the rising unemployment from the effects of Volcker’s policies with some kind of full employment federal policies. Not sure the viability of it is but it’s the best I could think of right now
 
If you look at pictures of Humphrey in 1976-78, you can see he was clearly at the end. His cancer was pretty severe by the time '76 came. But lets butterfly his cancer and he decides to run. I think he'd pick a moderate southerner to balance the ticket, so perhaps he picks Fritz Hollings (a loose cannon but was actually pretty lenient on civil rights for a deep south politician) or Fred Harris. Humphrey runs a competitive race but I don't think a 15 point margin would be possible to sustain. I think the map would look something like this on election night.
1642645020403.png

Hubert Humphrey (D-MN) / Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - 311 EVs
Gerald Ford (R-MI) / Bob Dole (R-KS) - 227 EVs
 

Deleted member 145219

This. A "healthy" Humphrey is actually not that implausible. All that is required is a bladderless Humphrey, and, as mentioned, he was given the option to have it removed in 1971 (I thought 1970, but admit I'm not sure) and chose not to.

The next hurdle to get Humphrey to the White House is that he must choose to run in the primaries. For an old school politician like Humphrey who had once won the nomination without going through this new ritual, this is easier said than done. However, he may look at his '72 loss and learn the right lesson: He had to enter the primaries early and campaign in a big way. If he did, he can win Iowa. Carter's strong second place showing will likely be the story -- the press craves a horse race and hates a coronation.

New Hampshire, with its contrarian streak, may also be a bit difficult, but ultimately Humphrey will have the superior operation and should dispose of Carter before the Convention (though I think it might be closer than most of us are inclined to give Jimmy credit for).

Humphrey likely follows Carter's lead and goes forth with the Panama Canal Treaties, which riles the right. That said, he likely also pursues health care reform with Kennedy at his side. We have a tendency, I think, to blame Carter for the lack of health care reform, but the truth is, the votes for Kennedy's bill were likely not there, and to get Kennedy to agree to a smaller package, you're going to need to go through a pretty difficult legislative battle in which you bleed political capital ahead of the Midterms. Success is no guarantee, but the Democrats can probably cobble together a modest health care reform measure.

The question of a Humphrey second term comes down to two matters: the economy and the Hostage Crisis. Starting with the latter, Humphrey is an interesting person to put in the Oval when the Shah needs refuge. In some ways, he's less likely to cave to the foreign policy manipulations of Kissinger and Rockefeller. At the same time, he is himself a cancer survivor and the condition of the Shah was greatly exaggerated to Carter and would be to Humphrey, too. I can't say I know enough to predict whether he takes the Shah, but there's also the possibility that Thatcher, who considered it, does ITTL and the issue isn't one Humphrey has to confront.

It's also possible that, should Humphrey take the Shah, he evacuates the embassy personnel or strengthens security forces at the embassy after the February 1979 attack. Had Carter done that, the November crisis would've been avoided. It seems plausible that Humphrey could do that.

And, if the hostages are taken still, Humphrey is less likely to obsess over them than Carter did. Carter's preoccupation with them brought the round-the-clock attention on the issue, which eventually sapped his approvals, and prevented him from a number of early military decisions that may have brought about their release, namely mining the ports around Iran or instituting a naval blockade.

With how many variables there are, it seems highly unlikely that the Hostage Crisis unfolds in the way it did for Carter.

Second, the economy. There is almost no way that Humphrey appoints Volcker, whose tenure at the Fed greatly contributed to Carter's defeat. Almost any other Democrat would have appointed a more politically-minded Chair who would not have instituted the kind of Shock that helped give Carter the boot. By no means will you have a bustling economy in 1980, but you may have one that's improved from OTL, and that would allow the election to be shifted to foreign policy, an issue where Reagan trailed Carter significantly, even with the Hostage Crisis. If you have Humphrey move in to make a military decision that gets the hostages released after a month or two, the contrast between his steady approach and Reagan's would be stark, and without a totally dreadful economy, voters may let their distrust of Reagan in a room with the big red button get the better of them.

Now, the question is who succeeds Humphrey. I tend to agree with @LivingSteam that 1984 will be a good year for Democrats if Humphrey has managed to win reelection in 1980 -- not assured but well within the realm of plausibility.

Carter himself could be Humphrey's running mate. He would've said yes if asked, he would help tame Humphrey's image as an insider in the post-Watergate world, and he would have exceeded expectations enough that some considered him a good campaigner. That said, he would be, interestingly, the case of a VP who may very well lose the nomination when trying for it. It is doubtful he would've made too many friends after eight years, and he would've been vulnerable to a number of Democrats.

The problem, I think, with Bentsen, is that the appetite to move to the center will not be there if Humphrey has had a strong eight years. If Bentsen is the VP, which he may well be, that's one thing, but he's unlikely to topple a sitting VP.

Interestingly, two plausible running mates, Church and Scoop, did not survive to 1984 IOTL. Either could be chosen and then be replaced by someone else later on -- in which case Humphrey may choose Muskie, who would likely be Sec. of State in a second term and was Humphrey's '68 running mate. I don't think Humphrey would choose him from the start in '76, though.

Wikipedia also mentions Glenn and Stevenson. Both are plausible. Mo Udall is another plausible choice. I honestly think Carter might be his choice for a running mate, and then you could see T. Kennedy or Mo Udall or Gary Hart or Mondale overtake Carter in the '84 primaries.
In my list, Bentsen was Humphrey's running mate. I went with Bentsen because of him being from Texas, a state that atl Humphrey would be targeting. I'm also thinking that with a strong Democratic candidate in the primaries (that Labor would rally behind), Carter doesn't get the momentum that he had in real life. I agree that Humphrey would not appoint Volcker. It would be interesting how Vietnam would influence Humphrey's approach to Iran and other foreign policy matters. In real life, Humphrey privately advised Johnson in 1965 to end American involvement in Vietnam, just as Clark Clifford and George Ball did.

Humphrey would have much better relations with Congress and could potentially get Health Care Reform and some kind of Energy package passed. Managing the Iran situation better could potentially lessen the oil shock and therefore the FED may not have to raise Interest rates to the extent they did.
 
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If you look at pictures of Humphrey in 1976-78, you can see he was clearly at the end. His cancer was pretty severe by the time '76 came. But lets butterfly his cancer and he decides to run. I think he'd pick a moderate southerner to balance the ticket, so perhaps he picks Fritz Hollings (a loose cannon but was actually pretty lenient on civil rights for a deep south politician) or Fred Harris. Humphrey runs a competitive race but I don't think a 15 point margin would be possible to sustain. I think the map would look something like this on election night.
View attachment 712079
Hubert Humphrey (D-MN) / Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - 311 EVs
Gerald Ford (R-MI) / Bob Dole (R-KS) - 227 EVs

I doubt Republicans would pull a reverse Carter by doing a clean sweep of the entire South. Arkansas, Kentucky, and Georgia would all easily be Dem states provided Humphrey wins by a decent margin.
 
I doubt Republicans would pull a reverse Carter by doing a clean sweep of the entire South. Arkansas, Kentucky, and Georgia would all easily be Dem states provided Humphrey wins by a decent margin.
Humphrey would not be a good fit for the south. IIRC he lost every state of the former CSA sans Texas in '68, and in Texas he was only helped by LBJ and a split rural vote.
 
I doubt Republicans would pull a reverse Carter by doing a clean sweep of the entire South. Arkansas, Kentucky, and Georgia would all easily be Dem states provided Humphrey wins by a decent margin.

In this period the South still maintained a not insignificant amount of loyalty to the party of the New Deal, so I can see Humphrey winning the Upper South. He did poorly in the South in 1968, but that was with Vietnam, the riots, Wallace, etc. In 1976 with Ford unpopular post-Watergate and the economy in the doldrums, Humphrey would be more competitive south of the Mason-Dixon line. But I think Texas and all of the Deep South would go to Ford.
 
A healthy HHH probably forces ted kennedy to give SOMETHING on healthcare, imo making universal healthcare in 1973-4 even more likely than OTL. IMO minimum change from OTL for then could be medicare part d+a somewhat expanded version of *obamacare(mediaid expansion to all states instead of letting the south opt out)+some probable tinkering with medicare/medicaid to expand coverage(See medicaid expansion plus moving eligibility for medicare to 60).

Expect another expansion of healthcare sometime early on in HHH's single term in 1977 or 1978, with it at least being possible to get UHC even if not likely. Say expanding medicare eligibility for people older than 50, another upwards boost for medicaid eligability[1], some sort of public option states can opt into plus creating a "medikid" program for under-18s as most likely.

Expect further expansions and tinkering with the healthcare system, slowly expanding coverage during likely atl periods of democrat dominance such as if elections go on similar patterns to OTL call it 1993-4 or 2009-10. This doesn't get you 100% covered, but a better outcome than OTL's 90% have at least shitty health insurance. Call it 95% covered with it being more like mediocre coverage as opposed to crappy coverage being common. It'd also take the burden of covering healthcare for lower wage employees off of employers which reduces pressure to automate or outsource/offshore/more to contractors compared to OTL. US GDP 15% than OTL, 10% higher than OTL with the extra 5% coming from healthcare costs being closer to 15% of GDP than 20%.

Well this isn't necessarily the most _likely_ outcome of all this mind you, it's just the one with the least change from OTL. More realistic outcome than this would be the US getting universal healthcare at some point, whether we're talking 1977/1993/2009, doesn't matter but precedents would have been sent.

[1] More orless covering the working class and not just poors now.
[2] I suspect the map of states that'd go for thar by 2022 would be blue states plus union heavy rustbelt states and WV(saving money on coal miners' healthcare) with it slowly expanding over time.
 
This was Humphrey in ‘76. He would have crushed it. He may not be an outsider like Carter but he was pretty with it.

 
Carter himself could be Humphrey's running mate. He would've said yes if asked, he would help tame Humphrey's image as an insider in the post-Watergate world, and he would have exceeded expectations enough that some considered him a good campaigner. That said, he would be, interestingly, the case of a VP who may very well lose the nomination when trying for it. It is doubtful he would've made too many friends after eight years, and he would've been vulnerable to a number of Democrats.
Ford speechwriter Richard Norton Smith once confided that Humphrey indicated that he privately voted for Ford in 1976 over Carter.

I think it’s easier to hand waive away Humphrey’s cancer than to give him the foresight to run early in the primaries. This system was still very young and changing. It’s conceivable that he learns all the right lesson from ‘72 and applies them but he’s still a bit from an earlier era and he’s still got his old habits. He’s a hobknobber, a handshaker, and a backrooms kind of guy. I think his likeliest good scenario is if he just gets in a little earlier than he does forcing scattered Dems out, picks up convincing second half of primary momentum, and at least stops Carter. Whether or not he chooses Carter as his running mate, I don’t know. It certainly makes the most sense but the party was very divided on Carter and I could see. Humphrey taking a more principled stand in his selection.
 
Humphrey's major cause in his final years was the Humphrey-Hawkins Full Employment Act. Today it's mostly known for providing the Fed's "dual mandate" (employment rate in addition to inflation). But initial versions also called for a robust public works program with the government as an employer of last resort. Carter's Administration was generally hostile to the bill and managed to water it down. Humphrey as president probably produces a bill with at least a somewhat stronger public works component. You may also get a labor law reform.

He is also unlikely, as pointed out above, to appoint Volcker to the Fed. Inflation will be an issue for him, but employment and GNP (at the time the main measure rather than GDP) growth will remain strong. (As they were OTL for Carter's first two years). He'll likely look more to wage and price controls to stem inflation. He's also likelier to back the Shah or the Iranian military earlier. Whether that forestalls the Iranian Revolution or just makes it bloodier is unclear.

Congress may look somewhat different under Humphrey as well. I think he can certainly win in 1976, but it'll be based on a stronger performance in the Northeast and Midwest. He's unlikely to do well in the South or Sun Belt. And although ticket splitting was high and congressional results not terribly correlated with the presidential race, it's possible that some close races might swing the other direction.

I agree that Carter is a potential running mate, especially if he performs well in the primaries. Otherwise Humphrey likely selects a senator. Bentsen is a possibility, so is Dale Bumpers of Arkansas.

As to 1980 and 1984, Ford will have a more united party going into 1980, potentially no Hostage Crisis, and maybe high inflation but no recession. I think he can narrowly hold off Reagan. By 1984 there may well be a time-for-a-change factor and inflationary pressures, and weak support among southerners and suburban moderates probably boosts the GOP. Carter as VP would probably be in a decent position to retain the nomination. No idea who the GOP nominee would be. Reagan will be a spent force, George Bush just an overpromoted party mandarin and failed VP candidate whose only election wins were two House races more than a decade before. Maybe Bob Dole, Howard Baker, or John Warner? Bill Brock, potentially, if he wins reelection in 1976. Or maybe even a Gerald Ford comeback. (He had ambitions to run in 1980 but sat out due to Reagan's head start.)
 
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