You mean the Volga Germans? A bit more that just one town, at least until Stalin's paranoia got the better of him...
Central Powers victory map 1920.
- Thread starter Fatt Shea
- Start date
The British aren't going to sacrifice any more men for land in Asia when Germany controls Belgium. The British will come to the table with the Ottomans once the Germans have stopped fighting in the west.
This doesn't explain how Germany finds the money to pay for its eastern puppets when it was dead broke in 1918. Nor does it explain why the German people would continue to support Germany remaining on war footing after peace with the entente.
I sincerely doubt many people would find work for colonial masters or puppet dictatorships very appealing. Even more so when that work involves killing your own people.
I do not believe they would want Russia to have Ukraine, they would likely want Russia as weak as possible so it could not invade Germany in a future war (which Russia would want to take back lost land). Not having Ukraine would make Russia far weaker and Germany stronger so Ukrainian independence would be supported.
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Belgium existence likely gone. The British know this and likely take Congo over to build Cape to Cairo railroad. In exchange Germany gets Tanzania back. Flanders is likely agreed on to be given to Dutch. Maybe wallonia too. Luxembourg probably goes to Germany.
What are the incursions and Arab fighters status in 1917 and 1918. Anatolia is harder one to invade then Levent or Arabia. Also once they got that they can just shell hell out of coast and support minor powers and revolts against ottomans
Britain will continue the war unless Belgium remains independent and free of German influence. The major fear of the British government was the North sea ports in German hands and the Germans are well aware of this, meaning that they can leverage their hold on Belgium to persuade the British to negotiate and end the blockade.
Britain entered Jerusalem in December of 1917 and hadn't advanced past Baghdad in Iraq.
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It would be decade or two if not more and bit force but I see Ukraine ironically getting Russianify while German puppet. During civil war and aftermath a bunch of refugees and immigrants move in. Germany not wanting them at home use puppets to absorb this influx of people. Germany builds it up these places which make living standards while not as great as Germany better then much Russia. This means continued Russian immigration.
Also if not communist the ethnic Russians and later conflicts population will much more high growing and big. Birth rates would still be higher too. There also already Russians there and that is most universal identity in region vs Germany for people who don’t like German rule. Belarus likely gets overwhelmed by Russians.
I believe they would likely support a belrussian independence as Belarussian independence is very well aligned to German strategic interested in the region as it would serve as a useful buffer against Russia and they would be able to do this against Russia's will easily due to the Russian civil war. I see your point that the borders are too far East, I will adjust them.I'm not sure Belarus would extend that far east or whether there would even have been a Belarusian state. In OTL, the western borders of Soviet Russia in the Belarus area were actualy to the west of the USSR's borders in OTL under the Treaty of Riga. As I've noted elsewhere, "As for Belorussia, while it was occupied by German troops, the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk did not recognize its independence (unlike Ukraine). Indeed, Germany never recognized the BNR (Bielarúskaja Naródnaja Respublika).
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Treaty of Brest-Litovsk - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The Germans were just beginning to discover the idea of Belarus (so for that matter were the Bralrusians!) and they might in the end have decided to go beyond the Brest-Litovsk Treaty and establish a Belarusian state there at Russia's expense, but it is by no means certain. Even if they did, it might not extend as far east as on your map--it was only in 1924 that "Russia returned most of territories that made up the Vitebsk and Mogilev Governorates, as well as parts of Smolensk. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byelorussian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic
Yep, I don't believe the Finns could get all that land.
And then if they had any say over their gains, they would have wanted an Arctic Sea port, like IOTL, more so than Eastern Karelian territory.
The most realistic option would be to give Finland the OTL 1920 Treatu of Tartu territories, and then a bit more, like adding Repola and Porajärvi.
The
I think if that happened and Ukraine started to become Russified by migration then the government would likely restrict Russians from coming to Ukraine or make sure that they assimilate as it being Russified would be an obvious threat to Ukraine. The same applies to Belarus. I am also not sure why the Russian birth rate would be so much higher. Ukraine or Belarus will take a long while to become so wealthy
Strategic interest takes a backseat to economic interest 9 times out of 10. The short term cost of continued occupation of eastern Europe wouldn't be worth any sort of strategic benefit against Russia because by 1918, Germany is in dire straights economically and politically. The potential resources from these territories can't justify the material and human cost of keeping them under German control, at least to the German people.
I don't think so... even with a French defeat I believe restoration of Belgium would be the starting point of negotiations, and would not be negotiable to the Brits - after all, it was their main excuse er I mean reason
for entering the war to begin with. The Germans would find this acceptable if given a free hand in the East.There's a lot of conjecture on here about Belgian Congo... frankly I think it would be restored to the Belgians, if for no other reason than to keep anyone else from having it. The Brits had (I believe) already negotiated a corridor for Cape-to-Cairo through eastern Congo... I doubt that the Belgians would balk considering the circumstances.
Might not be necessary though, as Germany would be lucky to get Togoland and Kamerun back from France, think the other colonies are pretty much a write-off.
Luxembourg will probably remain a Grand Duchy, and become another constituent state within the German Empire.
I am not saying they wpuld occupy the whole thing with their army. But they would send money, weapons and officers to train Belarussian soldiers, there will be some german soldiers there but they would try to give as much a burden to the belarusians as possible.
Paradoxer
Banned
Good way to sell off surplus and outdated military weapons too while getting something back
I worried that I made it too big, but the lands I gave it seemed logical as those lands are occupied by finnic peoples (I think, I found it hard to find map of their distribution in that region) and the Germans would want them to have as much land as possible to weaken the Russians and to make the border more Eastern. There were powerful people in Finland who wanted to do this during the Russian civil war iotl and so I think it would happen in this timeline due to them having support from a super power (Germany.) But I may be wrong about this.Yep, I don't believe the Finns could get all that land.
And then if they had any say over their gains, they would have wanted an Arctic Sea port, like IOTL, more so than Eastern Karelian territory.
The most realistic option would be to give Finland the OTL 1920 Treatu of Tartu territories, and then a bit more, like adding Repola and Porajärvi.
The
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Banned
If they aren’t communist society is much more conservative. Women rights do impact birth rates along with culture. Saudi and Arab monarch countries are nice economically and living standards wise for citizens. They still have high birth rate. Imperial or White Russians would be opposite on much of that stuff.
Also I don’t doubt they will try but that’s a hard border to manage and they already have large existing populations there. Also without communism Germany not even going to completely rework elites there. Many Russian aristocrats and landlords will hold sway or influence at local level especially in eastern Ukraine. Western Ukraine will have a influential Polish middle and upper class of landowners too.
Weapons are meaningless without people to use them. The puppet governments set up by the Germans don't have enough popular support to exist without the German military (think South Vietnam).
Weapons, German officers, some german volunteers and funding would mean a lot, especially against the opposition which would likely be poorly organised. They could also use captured enemy soldiers from Belarus or could even use conscription to bolster their numbers. They only need to hold the land until a treaty can be signed
Ukraine would also probably be conservative (hetmanate) I don't think Belarus would be hyper liberal either.
Their opposition would be the full force of the Red Army, who would be backed by the vast majority of the population.