I don't see why she wouldn't? They're not going to be bosom friends, they're too different for that, but once Jane's actually in Diane's household, she'll know her family are relying on her to behave...
A Queen Twice Over: Mary Tudor the Elder Marries Francis I of France
- Thread starter FalconHonour
- Start date
Why not? That's what most mistresses' husbands had to do. Besides, they're in different countries, so it's not like her blatant adultery is being paraded under Louis's nose all the time, unlike poor Mary Talbot.
Or so Henry thinks anyway... Although he also expects Mary to turn her head and look the other way, which she is also not terribly good at, bless her!
Well, indeed!
Yeah, that's something he'd rather forget, thank you...
Good luck Ms. Seymour - Lady Warwick is likely indeed a better place for you. Hopefully King Henry will never see you.
I feel for Diane here. Hopefully someone can talk to her husband and explain the Plan to him?
And great news for the Boleyn household there. Good health to James, and his parents.
I feel for Diane here. Hopefully someone can talk to her husband and explain the Plan to him?
And great news for the Boleyn household there. Good health to James, and his parents.
Even if Henry does see Jane, he's not likely to take a shine to her TTL. Not with both the pregnant Mary and the intelligent, sporty Diane in his life.
Unfortunately for Diane and her marriage, the plan has somewhat gone off the rails. She was supposed to spend a year or two in England, give Princess Mary a nice French touch to her education, and use her charms to persuade Henry to marry Philberta of Savoy. That's what Marie sent her to England to do. Neither Henry's marriage to Mary nor Edmund's birth was in the original playbook.....
And Cat and George are most grateful for your good wishes! Thank you!
Now that I look at this, it seems a bit much. It was one thing for the widowed Diane to take up with Henry II (then a teen-aged prince). It would be quite another for her to desert her husband and children. And for a foreign prince? Who was already married? (Henry II's wife was a child like him, and Diane supported her marriage - including getting Henry to father 10 children with her.)
And what did she expect of de Brézé? He was not the sort of second-tier courtier who would be the beard to a royal liaison for a payoff. Would he really accept his wife being sent away from his household in France to begin with?
Last edited:
Maybe it's time for a certain Queen of France to get some new maids of honor and pay a debt to a certain old friend
Fabulous update, as always. Poor, poor Diane. Stuck between a rock and Henry VIII. I think once Jane gets off her high horse of piety, they might actually get on together.
Fabulous update, as always. Poor, poor Diane. Stuck between a rock and Henry VIII. I think once Jane gets off her high horse of piety, they might actually get on together.
Louis de Breze didn't have a great deal of choice in whether or not Diane went to England. He was preparing to leave for Milan at the time and Marie phrased the question as ' You have a job to do for the King, I need to borrow your wife for a few months so she can do something for me.' No sensible courtier would say no to that, not with Marie as unassailable as she is because of her - at that point - two healthy sons.
Diane falling in love with Henry and becoming his Queen without a crown was not in anyone's plans. This is what I meant when I said that she was Claire to Louis's Frank and Henry's Jamie. She loves Louis, yes, but it was an immature affection born of a very quick courtship, and now that circumstances have driven them apart, she's found a man she'd burn the world down for.
And yes, that does include encouraging Henry to share his lawful wife's bed. We'll see that later.
You may not agree with it, and that's your prerogative, but it's the dynamic I'm working with.
I'm sure Marie would be only too happy to take charge of the de Breze girls, but they're too young to be maids of honour just yet. Perhaps as companions to Margot and her sisters? Margot will need some new ladies in Portugal, after all.
That's exactly what otl Diane did with Henri II and Catherine Medici...
Well, quite. Diane doesn't want the pressure of the crown, so she's got to make sure Henry manages to sire legitimate sons as well as Fitzroys.
I for one don't pity Diane, but worry for Francis and Mary. Brézé was an already extremely influential nobleman in otl, and only seems more powerful ittl. Now the royal family whored his wife out while he was fighting for their gains in Italy. England is not that far from France and with England and France so closely allied, information must be flowing fast between the two Kingdoms. That Diane is Henry's lover must be the hottest news in France, and it must have blown directly in Brézé's face especially when he had gotten the governorship over Milan. Honestly I can see this backfiring very much in Francis and Mary's faces - Brézé, a high nobleman, has his wife whored out to the King of England while the man is fighting for the King of France in Italy? Risky move.
Honestly I worry more for Diane's daughters than her, I can see their lives ruined by Mary and Francis if Louis gets frisky. And for Louis himself, who's reputation has probably been ruined.
Honestly I worry more for Diane's daughters than her, I can see their lives ruined by Mary and Francis if Louis gets frisky. And for Louis himself, who's reputation has probably been ruined.
What you say is all very true. On the other hand, the governorship of Milan is not something to be sniffed at. Louis may not want to rock the boat and risk losing it, particularly as his daughters are, as you say, well within Francis and Marie's reach. Not as long as no one tries to stand in the way of his annulling his marriage on the grounds of Diane's abandonment. Which they're not going to. Hell, Henry would probably be thrilled. It would free Diane up to marry him if he ever got the chance to ask her.
What you do say is very true. I think your view is best, but, Louis is not going to be governor of Milan forever, and Henry just made his wife, at least in titles, superior to him. Governorship or not, this is something that is definetly going to rock the boat of French politics. Still - such a measure must be extremely unpopular within France's nobility. Brézé, if we can assume he is still similar to OTL Brézé, was extremely loyal to Francis and yet still Francis (Well Marie, but that's not who people are going to blame more likely) whored out his wife to England without Brézé's consent?
Some French drama would be cool. Francis and Marie have been super sucessful and I for one would like to see their reactions to having their boat rocket for once. An unhappy French nobility, fearing the same could be done to them, Brézé and his kin probably demanding compensation? Francis and Marie over-reacting and doing something stupid to either Brézé himself or his daughters? Marie claiming Brézé's daughter as maids, essentially against his will as hostages? All very interesting povs in my opinion.
Now the annulement if some drama happens is something I can see Henry jumping at. Although I don't personally see Diana supporting it - as much as I like her with Henry I doubt she would sacrifice the only "legal" chance she has to really ever see her daughters again. Unless Marie and Francis take poor Françoise and Louise as hostages, which.. probably won't go well.
This also leaves the question - this is bound to be a good spot for Charles to intervene in.
Aah I should stop rambling. Great timeline man!
Last edited:
No, no, please keep rambling! This is all stuff I haven't considered at all, so your rambling is forcing me to consider other points. It's excellent rambling!
You're right, we do need some more drama where France and it's golden couple are concerned. I shall give it some thought..
Respect? Ugh I don’t think respect is something most people feel for their spouse of significant other when they hear about them having an affair, a bastard, and accepting a noble title from the king she’s screwing. Louis has every right to feel betrayed and abandoned. If she didn’t want this response she shouldn’t have gotten in an affair with Henry. I don’t have any sympathy for her here even if I like her.
Well, I do and I don't. I agree, Louis has every reason to be angry, and Diane hasn't helped herself, but on the other hand, what was she supposed to do? She had no real reason to refuse Marie's sending her to England, and once Henry took a shine to her? You don't say no to a King... Not unless you're Anne Boleyn. Okay, yes, she could have refused the title, but the damage had already been done by that point. Besides, she loves Henry. She can't help that. She would burn the world down for him, if he asked her...
Unless Henry was gonna force himself on her then she could definitely have said no. And she definitely could’ve said no to the position offered to her by Mary under some reasonable excuse. And yeah she she loves Henry but also loves her kids. Yah can’t Jane your cake and eat it too. Gotta pick and chose. I have a very low tolerance for people who cheat and feel no sympathy for them.
Last edited:
Claire from Outlander once said, 'I had been married twice, once at nineteen and then again at twenty-seven. I knew a hell of a lot more at twenty-seven.'
That's the dynamic we're going for here. Diane married Louis at 15, and yeah, she had affection for him, they had two daughters, their marriage wasn't BAD, per se. But when she meets Henry at 24/25, she knows a lot more about who she is and what she wants out of life. Henry is much more congenial and supportive of that than Louis ever was. Diane falls head over heels for him. Of course, the fact that he's only nine years older than her and the most powerful man in England doesn't hurt 😂
As I said to someone else upthread, you may not agree with it, and that's your prerogative. But that's what we're going for here