Alternate warships of nations

[McPherson]

So a random question. Assume for a moment that you are in the admiralty of a mid tier power in the 1935-45 period and have been tasked with leading a delegation to acquire a pair of battleships from a foreign power. It is desired that the ships you purchase are based on an existing design either already in service with your nation of choice, or under construction. Said battleships can are desired to be treaty compliant, 35,000 tons and up to 16 inch guns, vessels which were ostensibly built to the treaty, but broke its terms either through invocation of the escalator clause, or cheating may be chosen as well, though Yamato is strictly off limits as Japan is unlikely to share its secret battleships capabilities with an export customer. Also vessels that were laid down or ordered historically, but never commissioned for whatever reason, may also be chosen. What would your vessel of choice be?

PDF...

And the insanity. Be FRENCH.

Also assume you are a traitor to your nation looking to give them the most badly compromised design to ensure that the fleet will have the worst possible battleship in service. What would your choice now be?

See that insanity?

Personally my own choices for the first category would be either the Richelieu class of the French navy, or the British King George V class. The KGVs gave good service during the war once certain issues were addressed, while the French ships were really good designs on paper, but never had the chance to prove themselves. I had considered the Iowa's of the US, but they arrived very late in the period and I want my ships now. Earlier US vessels are a bit cramped IMO, and honestly I like the look of the quad turret ships better. I also considered the Dunkerque class, but they have to light armor and guns too light for me.

You wrote the worst possible design?

Now for the second category I would probably pick either the German Scharnhorst class for their light guns and flawed armor, or a North Carolina class ship. Neither vessel is especially bad, Scharnhorst gave good service but really her 11 inch guns were too small for the period, even if I understand the logic behind them at the time and know it was planned to replace them with 15 inch guns. While the US ships were perfectly servicable, but were quite cramped as I have said and due to this it would likely be hard to find space for things like improved AA, and RADAR once they become available.

You want the best of the best? A North Carolina, as built and worked up, would munch on its compeers and spit them out as razor blades.

Now that's just evil. I love it.

See previous remarks.

If you are a traitor you probably want to order battleships from your parent nation.

Scheme A. And have a Russian naval yard build her for assured quality control.

For example if I was a British agent in Netherlands I would order a British battleship to boost the British economy and allow Britain to take it over if there was a need.

There would also be an element of what the needs of the country is.

KGVs.

Does this country have the facilities to build battleships of that size, a la Spain? Or do the ships have to be built at the seller's shipyards?

Possibly at the Leningrad yards, if one is a real traitor.

 

[Count of Crisco]

Now the Soviets would be interesting indeed.

Speaking of russian I don't know if it was intended but the link was in Russian. Good practice though, and I got found the english translation fairly quickly so thanks.

 

[CV12Hornet]

The ships would have to be based on an existing design, but could be built domestically. A country like Spain would probably need heavy foreign assistance anyway in building a battleship. So an existing design may not be all that implausible.

Italy's out, then, for option 1 unless this country can somehow source the guns and armor from elsewhere. Japan too, most likely. And nobody's going to ask for Soviet designs.

Honestly, I like the Richelieus for option one. Very good ships, the design is ready in 1935 which is sooner than something based on a North Carolina or KGV, and the French at this time could probably provide the armor and guns better than Italy.

Option 2 would almost certainly involve involving the Germans or Soviets, and I'm not entirely sure who would be worse. The Soviets were worse designers, but the Germans are liable to seize the ships ordered before they're delivered.

 

[Count of Crisco]

Italy's out, then, for option 1 unless this country can somehow source the guns and armor from elsewhere. Japan too, most likely. And nobody's going to ask for Soviet designs.

Honestly, I like the Richelieus for option one. Very good ships, the design is ready in 1935 which is sooner than something based on a North Carolina or KGV, and the French at this time could probably provide the armor and guns better than Italy.

Option 2 would almost certainly involve involving the Germans or Soviets, and I'm not entirely sure who would be worse. The Soviets were worse designers, but the Germans are liable to seize the ships ordered before they're delivered.

Yeah I like the Italians general design for the Littorios. But they would be hard pressed to build additional ships.

I think of the two the Soviets would be the worst to buy a ship from. Not only would they be liable to seize them randomly, but whatever ships you ordered would be quite compromised due to a lack of experience and technical limitations.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

So a random question. Assume for a moment that you are in the admiralty of a mid tier power in the 1935-45 period and have been tasked with leading a delegation to acquire a pair of battleships from a foreign power. It is desired that the ships you purchase are based on an existing design either already in service with your nation of choice, or under construction. Said battleships can are desired to be treaty complaint, 35,000 tons and up to 16 inch guns, vessels which were ostensibly built to the treaty, but broke its terms either through invocation of the escalator clause, or cheating may be chosen as well, though Yamato is strictly off limits as Japan is unlikely to share its secret battleships capabilities with an export customer. Also vessels that were laid down or ordered historically, but never commissioned for whatever reason, may also be chosen. What would your vessel of choice be?

*14" guns if we're in the 1936-37 period when the 2nd London Naval Treaty was in effect.

 

[McPherson]

*14" guns if we're in the 1936-37 period when the 2nd London Naval Treaty was in effect.

Russians are not signatories and there is a traitor involved.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

So a random question. Assume for a moment that you are in the admiralty of a mid tier power in the 1935-45 period and have been tasked with leading a delegation to acquire a pair of battleships from a foreign power. It is desired that the ships you purchase are based on an existing design either already in service with your nation of choice, or under construction. Said battleships can are desired to be treaty complaint, 35,000 tons and up to 16 inch guns, vessels which were ostensibly built to the treaty, but broke its terms either through invocation of the escalator clause, or cheating may be chosen as well, though Yamato is strictly off limits as Japan is unlikely to share its secret battleships capabilities with an export customer. Also vessels that were laid down or ordered historically, but never commissioned for whatever reason, may also be chosen. What would your vessel of choice be?

Now to actually answer this:

I'd order a pair of Renown class BCs built to the standards of Renown's 1930s rebuild. Why?
-4 of the 6 turrets already exist, that saves $$$$$ and time
-they're light at 26,000 tonnes standard load which saves $$$$$ and time (LOADS of time, the Renowns went from laid down to commissioned in ~18 months)
-the 15" gun and Mk. I(N) turret actually work (glares at the NelRods and KGVs)
-20 4.5" DP guns are passable AAA (we can probably fix the inadequate light AA issue ourselves) especially in combination with the ship's great speed
-32 knot flank speed means they won't be slowing down any task force they're part of, and they can effective run from or chase after the enemy

Also assume you are a traitor to your nation looking to give them the most badly compromised design to ensure that the fleet will have the worst possible battleship in service. What would your choice now be?

I order a Soviet Soyuz class battleship. It will violate the treaty making my country a pariah, it won't be built in time for the war (the Korean War at that), and if the contract isn't cancelled the final product will be one of the crappiest ships ever built.

 

[Vanguard45]

I'd try to order from Jarrow before it closes.
They'll be so desperate for orders that I can write my own price tag.


Nelson class BB with 14 inch guns allowing for more armor and speed!

Win, Win, Win!

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

I'd try to order from Jarrow before it closes.
They'll be so desperate for orders that I can write my own price tag.


Nelson class BB with 14 inch guns allowing for more armor and speed!

Win, Win, Win!

If you're going to play that game go all out and order an F3.

 

[Vanguard45]

If you're going to play that game go all out and order an F3.

But the Nelsons already exist

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

But the Nelsons already exist

If you're going so far as changing the armament, armour system, and power plant, then you really aren't getting a Nelson.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

I like the idea of updated Renown class ships. Build them a little larger and sacrifice a couple of knots top speed to allow for a respectable level of armour and you've got a good ship for a regional navy. Of course they're likely to be seized/compulsory purchased in 1938 or 39 and you'll be lucky to get a couple of R's as compensation but you don't know that when you place the order.

 

[Lascaris]

Two takes of a Richelieu class battleship with 8x16in guns

1. Gascogne style with 2 quadruple turrets forth and aft and machinery reduced to 129,000hp for 30kts

Richelieu, France Enter ship type laid down 1936

Displacement:
36.375 t light; 38.587 t standard; 40.927 t normal; 42.800 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(787,42 ft / 769,80 ft) x 108,30 ft x (31,50 / 32,59 ft)
(240,01 m / 234,64 m) x 33,01 m x (9,60 / 9,93 m)

Armament:
8 - 16,00" / 406 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2.400,00lbs / 1.088,62kg shells, 104 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model
2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
9 - 5,98" / 152 mm 55,0 cal guns - 115,65lbs / 52,46kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
16 - 3,94" / 100 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,78lbs / 13,96kg shells, 600 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 0,52" / 13,2 mm 76,0 cal guns - 0,09lbs / 0,04kg shells, 2.500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 20.736 lbs / 9.406 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,0" / 330 mm 429,39 ft / 130,88 m 12,49 ft / 3,81 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 86% of normal length
Main Belt inclined -15,00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1,97" / 50 mm 429,39 ft / 130,88 m 28,83 ft / 8,79 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85,30 ft / 26,00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16,9" / 430 mm 7,68" / 195 mm 15,9" / 405 mm
2nd: 5,12" / 130 mm 2,76" / 70 mm 3,94" / 100 mm
3rd: 1,97" / 50 mm - -
4th: 2,00" / 51 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 7,48" / 190 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 13,39" / 340 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 130.000 shp / 96.980 Kw = 30,05 kts
Range 4.999nm at 18,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4.213 tons

Complement:
1.438 - 1.870

Cost:
£18,291 million / $73,166 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3.732 tons, 9,1%
- Guns: 3.732 tons, 9,1%
Armour: 13.333 tons, 32,6%
- Belts: 3.097 tons, 7,6%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 902 tons, 2,2%
- Armament: 2.798 tons, 6,8%
- Armour Deck: 6.194 tons, 15,1%
- Conning Tower: 342 tons, 0,8%
Machinery: 3.648 tons, 8,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15.482 tons, 37,8%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.552 tons, 11,1%
Miscellaneous weights: 180 tons, 0,4%
- On freeboard deck: 180 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
63.658 lbs / 28.875 Kg = 31,1 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 9,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
Metacentric height 8,4 ft / 2,6 m
Roll period: 15,7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,10

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,545 / 0,551
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32,40 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 22,11%, 30,52 ft / 9,30 m, 24,97 ft / 7,61 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 24,97 ft / 7,61 m, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m
- Aft deck: 25,78%, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m
- Quarter deck: 22,11%, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m
- Average freeboard: 21,97 ft / 6,70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167,1%
Waterplane Area: 60.310 Square feet or 5.603 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 213 lbs/sq ft or 1.041 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,44
- Overall: 1,00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

2. With 2 triples and 1 twin turret. Machinery again reduced to 129,000HP and armor reduced for turrets and conning tower

Richelieu, France Enter ship type laid down 1936

Displacement:
36.672 t light; 38.586 t standard; 40.927 t normal; 42.800 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(787,42 ft / 769,80 ft) x 108,30 ft x (31,50 / 32,59 ft)
(240,01 m / 234,64 m) x 33,01 m x (9,60 / 9,93 m)

Armament:
8 - 16,00" / 406 mm 45,0 cal guns - 2.400,00lbs / 1.088,62kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model
2 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
1 x 2-gun mount on centreline, forward deck aft
1 raised mount
9 - 5,98" / 152 mm 55,0 cal guns - 115,65lbs / 52,46kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model
3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
12 - 3,94" / 100 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,78lbs / 13,96kg shells, 600 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 0,52" / 13,2 mm 76,0 cal guns - 0,09lbs / 0,04kg shells, 2.500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 20.613 lbs / 9.350 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,0" / 330 mm 422,47 ft / 128,77 m 12,49 ft / 3,81 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 84% of normal length
Main Belt inclined -15,00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1,97" / 50 mm 422,47 ft / 128,77 m 28,83 ft / 8,79 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85,30 ft / 26,00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16,9" / 430 mm 6,30" / 160 mm 14,2" / 360 mm
2nd: 3,54" / 90 mm 0,98" / 25 mm 1,97" / 50 mm
3rd: 1,97" / 50 mm - -
4th: 2,00" / 51 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 7,48" / 190 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 11,81" / 300 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 129.101 shp / 96.309 Kw = 30,00 kts
Range 5.000nm at 18,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4.214 tons

Complement:
1.438 - 1.870

Cost:
£18,296 million / $73,184 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3.714 tons, 9,1%
- Guns: 3.714 tons, 9,1%
Armour: 13.678 tons, 33,4%
- Belts: 3.058 tons, 7,5%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 887 tons, 2,2%
- Armament: 3.298 tons, 8,1%
- Armour Deck: 6.132 tons, 15,0%
- Conning Tower: 302 tons, 0,7%
Machinery: 3.622 tons, 8,9%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15.611 tons, 38,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.255 tons, 10,4%
Miscellaneous weights: 47 tons, 0,1%
- On freeboard deck: 47 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
62.670 lbs / 28.427 Kg = 30,6 x 16,0 " / 406 mm shells or 9,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18
Metacentric height 7,7 ft / 2,3 m
Roll period: 16,4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,59
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,545 / 0,551
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32,40 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 22,56%, 30,52 ft / 9,30 m, 24,97 ft / 7,61 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 24,97 ft / 7,61 m, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m
- Aft deck: 24,88%, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m
- Quarter deck: 22,56%, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m
- Average freeboard: 22,01 ft / 6,71 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 84,4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167,3%
Waterplane Area: 60.310 Square feet or 5.603 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 215 lbs/sq ft or 1.048 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,96
- Longitudinal: 1,38
- Overall: 1,00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Last for comparison purposes a sim of the actual Richelieu

Richelieu, France Enter ship type laid down 1936

Displacement:
36.624 t light; 38.586 t standard; 40.927 t normal; 42.800 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(787,42 ft / 769,80 ft) x 108,30 ft x (31,50 / 32,59 ft)
(240,01 m / 234,64 m) x 33,01 m x (9,60 / 9,93 m)

Armament:
8 - 14,96" / 380 mm 45,0 cal guns - 1.950,01lbs / 884,51kg shells, 104 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model
2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
9 - 5,98" / 152 mm 55,0 cal guns - 115,65lbs / 52,46kg shells, 200 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1936 Model
3 x 2 row sextuple mounts on centreline, aft evenly spread
12 - 3,94" / 100 mm 45,0 cal guns - 30,78lbs / 13,96kg shells, 600 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
32 - 0,52" / 13,2 mm 76,0 cal guns - 0,09lbs / 0,04kg shells, 2.500 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
8 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17.013 lbs / 7.717 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 13,0" / 330 mm 425,55 ft / 129,71 m 12,49 ft / 3,81 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 85% of normal length
Main Belt inclined -15,00 degrees (positive = in)

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
1,97" / 50 mm 425,55 ft / 129,71 m 28,83 ft / 8,79 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85,00 ft / 25,91 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 16,9" / 430 mm 7,68" / 195 mm 15,9" / 405 mm
2nd: 5,12" / 130 mm 2,76" / 70 mm 3,94" / 100 mm
3rd: 2,00" / 51 mm - -
4th: 2,00" / 51 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 7,48" / 190 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 13,39" / 340 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 155.001 shp / 115.631 Kw = 31,47 kts
Range 5.000nm at 18,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4.214 tons

Complement:
1.438 - 1.870

Cost:
£17,344 million / $69,374 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 3.189 tons, 7,8%
- Guns: 3.189 tons, 7,8%
Armour: 13.318 tons, 32,5%
- Belts: 3.076 tons, 7,5%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 894 tons, 2,2%
- Armament: 2.847 tons, 7,0%
- Armour Deck: 6.160 tons, 15,1%
- Conning Tower: 343 tons, 0,8%
Machinery: 4.349 tons, 10,6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 15.588 tons, 38,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4.303 tons, 10,5%
Miscellaneous weights: 180 tons, 0,4%
- On freeboard deck: 180 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
62.705 lbs / 28.443 Kg = 37,5 x 15,0 " / 380 mm shells or 9,8 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,19
Metacentric height 7,8 ft / 2,4 m
Roll period: 16,3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,50
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,98

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,545 / 0,551
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32,40 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 22,36%, 30,52 ft / 9,30 m, 24,97 ft / 7,61 m
- Forward deck: 30,00%, 24,97 ft / 7,61 m, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m
- Aft deck: 25,28%, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m
- Quarter deck: 22,36%, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m, 19,42 ft / 5,92 m
- Average freeboard: 21,99 ft / 6,70 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,0%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167,2%
Waterplane Area: 60.310 Square feet or 5.603 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 212 lbs/sq ft or 1.035 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,95
- Longitudinal: 1,46
- Overall: 1,00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

 

[ArtosStark]

I like the idea of updated Renown class ships. Build them a little larger and sacrifice a couple of knots top speed to allow for a respectable level of armour and you've got a good ship for a regional navy. Of course they're likely to be seized/compulsory purchased in 1938 or 39 and you'll be lucky to get a couple of R's as compensation but you don't know that when you place the order.

The original plan for the Renown’s was to use small tube boilers. To save time and expense, they instead took HMS Tiger’s power plant, added 3 boilers and called it good. If, in an updated version, you instead used the small tube higher pressure machinery of the day, and used D-steel rather than HTS in the hull, you may well be able to maintain the 32 knot speed of the original Renowns while installing a better armour scheme. Or at least not sacrifice too much. They would probably need more torpedo defence as well, so that could eat into either your internal space or your speed, depending on if it is internal or external.

 

[Count of Crisco]

I will admit that I was meaning newer classes when I made the original brief. However I really like the Renowns so I will allow it.

 

[Spencersj345.346]

Hmmmm are we allowed to mix and match stuff from different nations. Because if I can I'm taking French machinery(to enable really good TDS and save a fair bit of weight and space), the MK37 director and the 5"/38, the 40mm Bofors, and British armor plate among other things. As for the main gun selection the Mark II 15"/45 in three three gun turrets would be a rather good pick. This will result in a decent ship that will result in it being logistical hell to maintain. And yes I'd build it in UK yards.

 

[Catsmate]

The more I hear about stuff like this, the more I'm convinced Admiral Jellicoe wasn't paranoid enough about the torpedo threat.

Here's a mildly interesting PoD. Active anti-torpedo defenses are developed and deployed before the Second World War. These consist of broadly two systems:
1. Barrage explosives. Basically small-ish explosive projectiles, fired in clusters by rocket, spigot or launcher in the general direction of a suspected or sighted torpedo with the intention of detonating, disabling or deflecting it.
2. Precision gunfire. Basically light automatic anti-aircraft weapons firing supercavitating ammunition.
Would they have had much effect?

 

[Count of Crisco]

Hmmmm are we allowed to mix and match stuff from different nations. Because if I can I'm taking French machinery(to enable really good TDS and save a fair bit of weight and space", the MK37 director and the 5"/38, the 40mm Bofors, and British armor plate among other things. As for the main gun selection the Mark II 15"/45 in three three gun turrets would be a rather good pick. This will result in a decent ship that will result in it being logistical hell to maintain. And yes I'd build it in UK yards.

I said existing designs that were either built or ordered historically. But I suppose a bit of mix and match could be allowed so long as the resultant ship is still clearly derived from such a ship.

That being said for the traitor order how about a Soviet Soyuz class with German engines, and Italian guns with Italian made shells

 

[Spencersj345.346]

I said existing designs that were either built or ordered historically. But I suppose a bit of mix and match could be allowed so long as the resultant ship is still clearly derived from such a ship.

That being said for the traitor order how about a Soviet Soyuz class with German engines, and Italian guns with Italian made shells

It's a derivative of the KGV just using the fact that it will have decently lighter and smaller machinery to good use, oh and adding a transom stern and a bulbous bow to increase speed with all the costs of the required water tank testing be solely paid for by my nation since I am of course a traitor(that this and the use of the Mark II 15" gun almost certainly will be used to improve the KGVs is icing on the cake). Oh and of course since I'm a traitor they will be scheduled to be completed in late September and early December of 1939 so we won't be seeing them for quite some time if ever. Mind you methinks the 48 40mm Bofors and 20 5"/38s (with 4 Mark 37 directors for them) that they'll be equipped with from the beginning will be very useful indeed while in RN service.

As for your second idea that's just evil

 

[Sargon]

That being said for the traitor order how about a Soviet Soyuz class with German engines, and Italian guns with Italian made shells

Heheheh, I like the cut of your jib. That should complicate things nicely.


Sargon