Warships that survived World War Two and should have been museums!

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
As far as actually being preserved -

USS South Dakota
USS Indiana
USS Enterprise
USS Saratoga
At least one of the BB from Pearl Harbor (although they were all modified during the war)
HMS Warspite
One of the KGV class

Might have been worthwhile to preserve the Prinz Eugen and display her under the Guns of the King George V (since the PoW is gone and the KGV did take part in the destruction of the Bismarck (a little on point, but...).
 

BobTheBarbarian

Banned
Of the Pearl Harbor survivors, I would suggest West Virginia for her distinguished service record after the attack, especially the gun duel in Surigao Strait.
 
McPherson

McPherson

Banned
CalBear said:
Ya, but...

She had already been gutted long before. She was nothing but a barge by that point.
Click to expand...
If the USN could rebuild Weevee from practically scrap metal to fight at Surigao, then Oregon could be an archeology project for conscientious objectors to learn how to build before being sent to the Kaiser yards?

2. Original Condition of the Ship: The West Virginia was sunk and rested on the hard bottom in the outboard berth of F6, with a list of about three degrees to port. The draft was 50 feet 6 inches forward and 40 feet 10 inches aft. Exploratory work by divers had revealed very extensive damage in the midship area, port side. In addition, divers had found that the rudder had been knocked off and was lying on the bottom, and that the steering engine room was considerably damaged. A serious oil fire had burned on the West Virginia for about thirty hours following the December 7th attack, and had caused extensive damage throughout the ship. For about three quarters of the length of the ship all of the deck plating above the second deck and some of the bulkheading was seriously buckled from the heat. At the time of the attack on December 7th, the ship had on board approximately seventy percent of its capacity of fuel oil and was fully loaded with fresh provisions and meat. The records of the West Virginia indicated that there were approximately seventy bodies on board the vessel.
Click to expand...

In plain English about 8 feet above the water line and the mid third of the left side of the ship was permanently RUINED, and would have to be replaced.

The armor belt was found to be badly askew but nevertheless furnished excellent backing for shores. The chief difficulty in shoring was to find suitable structure above the armor belt in the midship area to shore against, - this for the reason that all of the hull plating in the midship area above the armor belt was missing or badly damaged. Shell plating that had been blown out was removed previously by underwater cutting. An ingenious scheme for shoring in this area was devised by setting ten inch "H" beams vertically on end on top of the armor with the lower end of the beam kept flush with the outer edge of the armor by means of heavy angle bars which were welded to the "H" beams but not to the armor. A hook bolt was fastened by divers back of the armor. Above the water's edge the "H" beams were backed by steel shapes which acted as struts between the "H" beams and the structure of the ship. These vertical members were tied together fore and aft by welded angles and channels. When thus secured and spaced about every eight feet they furnished a very substantial means against which to shore sections of the patch to take the pressure as the water was pumped down.
Click to expand...
BTW, the surveyor was smoking whacky weed when he estimates four months to fix all the "casualties".
39. The direct contact of torpedo and/or bomb explosions against the armor belt caused the third deck to absorb considerably more energy than is usually the case in way of torpedo explosions. As a result the damage to and on the third deck in the midship area is very extensive. This damage extended to #5 torpedo bulkhead which is pushed in as much as two feet in boiler rooms two and four. Also, there is considerable buckling and failure of bulkhead stiffeners, bracket, etc.

40. Extent of Structural Damage and Time to Repair: The time required to make good the structural damage to the West Virginia depends upon numerous considerations such as, availability of material, number of structural trades available, handling of armor, etc. Obviously the armor belt in way of the damage must be removed and the whole structure from the shell to torpedo bulkhead #5 inclusive must be replaced in large part. It seems that five armor plates are cracked and all or most of these may require renewal; also, it may be found that some of the armor keyways of others are broken open so as to require replacement of the armor plate. The bottom of the ship under the turn of the bilge is rumpled considerably and is pulled up in way of torpedo bulkhead #5. The docking keel is pulled up by six to eight inches. It is not blown out at any place and is damaged comparatively less than in the case of the California.

41. With material and men available it would seem that the structural job on the West Virginia would require some four to six months. A large part of this work can be deferred until the vessel reaches a mainland yard, especially most of the renewal and straightening of main and upper decks. The time required for the steering gear job is anybody's guess at this stage and depends primarily on the delivery of new parts such as stern post, rudder stock, crosshead, etc.

42. The Yard is being pressed to have the West Virginia in condition to vacate the dock if emergency requires. It is likely that the inner bulkheads can be made tight to permit refloating of the vessel after a period of about three weeks in dock. Although structural repairs can best be done in dock, it would be possible to handle the work so that only the outer layers need be done in dock and the inside layers competed thereafter. While this would not be the most efficient way of doing the job it would cut down the total drydock period to approximately ten to twelve weeks.
Click to expand...

All citations are from the official salvage report post attack at Pearl Harbor courtesy of the USN.

This guy actually compiled the report. Even with accounting the USS California and the USS Tennessee ahead in the queue, it took two years to rebuild the USS West Virginia.
 
Gokbay

Gokbay

Count of Crisco said:
Japan picks Musashi
Click to expand...

Was going to mention that you probably meant Mikasa but looks like you got informed by someone else anyway.

1Big Rich said:
Pennsylvania would have been a good Pearl Harbor survivor to preserve, she could be in Philadelphia with Olympia
Click to expand...

As much as I understand/like the point of preserving the Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, I think putting her in Pearl Harbor in the place of Missouri, near the Arizona is a better idea. She was Arizona's sister after all.

Bob in Pittsburgh said:
Saratoga was not that famous a ship plus it was nuked so there was no way to save it.
Click to expand...

You could just, y'know, not nuke her.
 
Last edited:

Spencersj345.346

Mind you both Warspite and Pennsylvania were in pretty bad condition at the end of the war and fixing them would cost a pretty penny. Oh if only I was an eccentric millionaire in 1945 the stuff I would save
 
Gokbay

Gokbay

Spencersj345.346 said:
Mind you both Warspite and Pennsylvania were in pretty bad condition at the end of the war and fixing them would cost a pretty penny. Oh if only I was an eccentric millionaire in 1945 the stuff I would save
Click to expand...

You and me both.

Being and eccentric millionaire to keep WW1-WW2 era warships around as museum ships is something I would be totally down with.
 

Cockroach

Australian vessels? Either HMAS Hobart or Australia and one of either Stuart or Vendetta (the two survivors of the Scrap Iron Flotilla)

British vessels? One of the surviving Queen Elizabeth class, but I'd actually be inclined to not go with Warspite as the whole damage from a Fritz-X thing likely makes her less suitable for long term preservation (probably knocks out Valiant as well due to damage from her dry dock accident).
 

sparky42

Cockroach said:
Australian vessels? Either HMAS Hobart or Australia and one of either Stuart or Vendetta (the two survivors of the Scrap Iron Flotilla)

British vessels? One of the surviving Queen Elizabeth class, but I'd actually be inclined to not go with Warspite as the whole damage from a Fritz-X thing likely makes her less suitable for long term preservation (probably knocks out Valiant as well due to damage from her dry dock accident).
Click to expand...
To be honest it's not just the damage from the bomb, there was also the mine strike she took during the invasion campaign and support operations, I imagine combined it would have utterly broken her back.
 

Matt Wiser

My list:

USS Enterprise (CV-6)
USS California (BB-44)
USS West Virginia (BB-48)
USS San Francisco (CA-38)
USS Franklin (CV-13) "The ship that would not die"
HMS Warspite
HMS Illustrious
HMS King George V
HMAS Australia

Where should Enterprise have been moored? Norfolk would be obvious.

California? Either San Pedro or San Francisco alongside CA-38.
 

CT7834

Matt Wiser said:
My list:

USS Enterprise (CV-6)
USS California (BB-44)
USS West Virginia (BB-48)
USS San Francisco (CA-38)
USS Franklin (CV-13) "The ship that would not die"
HMS Warspite
HMS Illustrious
HMS King George V
HMAS Australia

Where should Enterprise have been moored? Norfolk would be obvious.

California? Either San Pedro or San Francisco alongside CA-38.
Click to expand...
I’ve always had the view that Enterprise should have been moored at Pearl Harbor
 

Matt Wiser

In those days, travel to Hawaii was still expensive. A location on the mainland more accessible to tourists would have to be found.
 
Gokbay

Gokbay

Since one of the reasons for not keeping Warspite, other than the lack of money, was how it was in a bad state which of the Queen Elizabeth class would be in the best position to be preserved?

Most do not have an as illustrious career as Warspite but they have served in both World Wars (QE in Gallipoli while rest in Jutland in the 1st).
 

Dorknought

QE heralded in the new era of the fast battleship, fired her guns at shore targets at the very start of her service and at the very end. Nothing really in between.

Vanguard would have made more sense and a better opportunity at a later date. It is quite expensive maintaining these things even as museums.
 
Last edited:

nortex

Vinization said:​

"Why in the planets wasn't Enterprise saved, anyway? Bureaucratic/financial issues?"

I remember reading that Nimitz and Halsey lead a fund raising campaign to save Enterprise but still could not raise the funds.

I had an early computer game on the Pacific War back in the 1990's and it had generic histories of all the ships in the game. The only one with commentary was Enterprise. It gave the scrapping date followed by capital letters SHAME!

As for a location, could she get up the Potomac as far as Washington DC? Dredge out a dock area and make her part of DC's museums and monuments.
 

Coulsdon Eagle

Monthly Donor
Prinz Eugen. Surrendered at Copenhagen then nuked. Would have also been a good illustration of a scaled-down Bismarck / Tirpitz

At least 5 navies have had ships named after Eugene of Savoy which must be a record. (We cheat a little on the 5th...)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top