I had a timeline idea where a communist Germany and troskite USSR started ww2 against the west. Would the west be able to overcome such a axis?
Would a German Soviets axis be unstoppable
- Thread starter Glory2Cabinda
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Why does everyone seam to think the USSR was unstoppabl? They had about 190 million. The technology they had was generally sad. As huge percentages of the population was very primitive presents, The system was hideously corupt. And in the fight vs Germany they needed assistance from GB and the US.
Would they be a pain in the backside? Yup. Unstoppable. Not really,
The US buy the end of the war was basically outproducing the rest of the world. Add in GB and other allies and Germany and the USSR are out numbered and out produced,
And NOTHING the USSR and Germany can do will win them the navel war. So after the equivalent of 1943 or so the UBoat threat will be mostly ended and then basicly the Wallies can’t be touched while the plan the best way to take our the USSR and Germany,
And this gets worse if you give the Wallies Japan.
Would they be a pain in the backside? Yup. Unstoppable. Not really,
The US buy the end of the war was basically outproducing the rest of the world. Add in GB and other allies and Germany and the USSR are out numbered and out produced,
And NOTHING the USSR and Germany can do will win them the navel war. So after the equivalent of 1943 or so the UBoat threat will be mostly ended and then basicly the Wallies can’t be touched while the plan the best way to take our the USSR and Germany,
And this gets worse if you give the Wallies Japan.
Which seems quite likely to me with TTL. The US will happily throw China under the bus to stop a Trotskyite USSR>
if the Soviets invaded Iran, then yes, I think they can be beaten. Without the support of local Bolsheviks ala the Caucasus in 1920-1921, I think they'll have trouble fighting in such terrain.
Do you think this Axis could developed nuke in time without the Anti Semitism people like Albert Einstein, Hans Bethe, John von Neumann, Leo Szilard ect would have less reason to flee?
To get to a Communist German-Soviet alliance starting WW2, you necessarily have to address what happened after WW1 and how the remainder of Europe aligns. Some big points: Spanish Civil War- different outcome without the Condor Legion and Nazi assistance? Where does Mussolini fit in, if at all? No Stalin presumably means no Great Purge of the Soviet military officers, or is there a Trotsky equivalent? Does the war begin with an invasion of a democratic Poland, or Scandanavia , or the Balkans, or someplace else?
My mental picture s hitter going commie in his youth and being this timelines Goebbels. I honestly don't know if Trotsky would do it or not I suspect their would be. And Spain would probably go commie but would not commit for the same reason Franco didn't. And the war would start in Poland and Austria has the Germans and Russian attempt to link up and the Germans try to ''liberate'' their brothers in Austria.
My line up would GB plus the Commonwealth France Italy Poland the Low Countries and Austria vs Germany USSR and the Hungarians.
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I'm inclined to say "no" but this question is hard to address counter-factually because a Trotskite Germany is a new creature. On the "yes" side is the point you raised, more Jewish scientist stay in Germany to do this sort of work. Ergo, the talent pool is much deeper and maybe that keeps the German program from going down so many technological and theoretical cul-de-sacs. Then again, on the "no" side, many European scientist (Jew and Gentile, German and Slavic) went to the US and England anyhow because that seems to be where the really serious work and best funded programs seemed to be happening pre-War (with some obvious exceptions- like Fermi in Rome). Favoring a "no," Nazi Germany never had the "vision" thing for developing nukes and Hitler was always moving resources from one super-weapon program to the next. Would Commie Germany have the "vision" and, therefore, the commitment. The Soviets didn't, at least not until after the War started and its spy network began passing along Mahattan Project intel to Stalin. Thus, most of the Soviet's advancements came from spies within the Manhattan Project and so its atomic bomb woud have always followed the US. But would Trotsky have acted similarly to Stalin? Also for "no," and in contrast to Germany and the USSR, the English and US had the "vision" earlier on and devoted gobs more resources into the Mahattan Project, et al. Then there are questions about the German (Nazi) program; was it institutionaly biased in favor of a technological dead-end, or was that due to the Nazi scientists? (I take the stories that some Nazi's were intentionally frustrating Nazi research to help the Allies with a grain of salt.) Would a German Communist program not have the same institutional blinders on? You'd still have mostly the same German scientist and program adminsitrators under the OTL as with this TL, albeit with additional German Jews. That suggests the answer stays "no." But even if Commie Germany was on the right path, would it allocate massive resources to a bomb-making effort? Why wouldn't Marxist bureaucrats crunch the same calculations as their Nazi OTL counterparts and conclude that a nuke would have a minimal contribution in wartime and, thus, conclude that it didn't merit an all-out-effort.
Sure.
All they would need to do would be hold at the Channel and wait for the economies to crash. Cold War redux, albeit with a much longer occupation of France and the Low Countries.
I don't even think you'd have to wait that long. A Nazi Soviet Axis would be unstable as all get out.
Ahhh. Nvm. I didn't see the Communist part of the OP.
In dividing
A longer Battle of Britain with the Luftwaffe and the VVs in one side of the Channel and the RAF in the other? I'd love to see that!
I wonder what FDR would do in that situation.
Your opening comment was exactly my initial thought. Thankfully, as you did I, reread the initial post.
Also, as a general added comment; this could very well lead to the Communists winding up in control of France before any war even began, giving them control of the greater European Peninsula.
And by extension it may kill the SCW and would let good old Benito almost surrounded by Communist countries but for the Balkans.