Map Thread XX
- Thread starter Balkanized U.S.A
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Lemme guess, someone really screws up the whole 1983 crisis thing?
Is the map supposed to be present day? The link doesn’t clarify. Spanish wouldn't remain the primary language in that much of former Mexico after 150 years. For once–literally once–though, I like the alt-states and their sizes… maybe not the names… and I particularly like how the US now has three Four Corners. The statehood dates, on the other hand…
There are definitely three:
1) North California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah
2) Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, Colorado
3) New Mexico, Colorado, Oklahoma, Nebraska
Nevada, Utah, North California, Arizona
Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico
Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico, Oklahoma
Greater Italy c. 1925
A map I made based on my Italy game in Victoria II. I started from 1815 using the Concert of Europe mod (more time to industrialize and build myself up). I exploited the 1848 Revolutions while Austria started to crumble in flames allowing me to rapidly take over most of Northern Italy. From there I aligned myself with the French in lieu of the Austrian counterattack taking Venetia. Since Two-Sicilies was allied to Austria, they suffered dearly in the war and had a couple of revolutions allowing me to annex them in the 1850's. Unlike the Italian government of otl, I spent time actually helping to develop Southern Italy making it catch up with the North. From there I had most of the dejure peninsula under Italian rule except for Latium itself which was ruled by the Papacy, and Corsica and Nice which were under French rule. I then began improving relations with Prussia which triggered a major Franco Prussian style war. Though unlike otl's war France actually was like the Napoleonic France of the First Empire and began a bit of a curb-stomp against the Prussians with Austria eventually joining in. This brought in Russia into the War allowing the young Italian Kingdom breathing room. With Russian support the war ended in a Prussian and Italian victory. I took Istria and Dalmatia from Austria while France was forced to cede Nice and the remnant of the Papal states to Italy. France humiliated had a revolution which triggered a three-way civil war between the Legitimists, Bonapartists, and Republicans (in ttl there was no Orleanist monarchy as Charles X and Louis XIX abdicated to Henri V with Louis-Philippe serving as regent). Croatia had its own revolt which led to them becoming independent and part of Italy's sphere of influence.
In the Balkans, the ideas of nationalism had spread leaving the Ottomans reeling as the Balkan states clamored for independence and liberation. Italy high off its victory against the Austrians and French, had then joined in the Balkan wars allowing it to expand its territory and spheres of influence. In the early 1900's Italy began a war against Tunisia and later Libya realizing the Italian irredentist idea of fourth shore across the Mediterranean Sea. France and Britain had later come to blows over Morrco and I used this opportunity seize Provence and Corsica.
What do you guys think of this map and timeline? Some of the events in that game were because of luck/RNG events while others were planned based on the lessons from many failed playthroughs as Italy.
I love this. I don't have too much to say, but even if some of this was luck, that's history for you. But all the same, I enjoy Italy becoming such a great power it missed out in OTL.
Wouldn't a completely annexed Mexico hit the demographic transition earlier, reducing not only its population but the population of the OTL U.S. Border States? Also you'd think Statehood would take way longer than shown, potentially not until after the Civil War. The map itself looks great though!
I just wanted to know what happened so where a bunch of Native American states rose up in the Western US, and why the exclusion zone has the 13 star flag.
Not necessarily: there would be less immigration into states of the US proper recently, but probably more in earlier times (large scale Mexican migration to the US is mostly a post-WWI thing, and didn't really soar until the 1970s: it was pretty negligible 1850-1910. Also, the large-scale repatriations of Mexicans in OTLs 1930s and 1950s could hardly happen if they were all US citizens )
It's clearly some post-nuclear apocalypse scenario, with a large number of local "survivor" governments springing up in the absence of an effectual successor state to the US.
True, but i'd think the populations of CA and TX would still be lower than OTL, though less so without those 'large-scale repatriations', and the population of Mexico proper would definitely be lower than OTL...
I see the US being unable to handle central Mexico happening, but considering the scenario and going with it, the date of accession to the Union, the (former) US South has been completely derpived of any relevance (political, economic or electoral). The only thing that they have to their favour, being states, will be revoked for a generation when they rebel. And it's a when, not an if.
There was some Nuclear Bombs thrown around, but think more of the Salvation War than 1983: Doomsday. Also the reason why the "US" uses the 13 star flag, is because even 60 years after the whole thing, there's still no clear idea on how many states there are, so they just use the Ross flag just so people would stop complaining that their "amazing state of Bob" or whatever wasn't represented on the flag.
Also for the Native Americans, many native tribes got large amounts of population boosts, so a majority of the surviving state governments, such as the Yellowstone Government started off with Idahoan, Wyomingite, Montanan, and (The Genghis Khan variety) Mongolian governments all pitching in for a collaboration government with the Denver Government (Now in Victoria, Cascadia), and New York's, gave the Natives nominal independence, which later led to the Buffalo Agreement, which led to the Statehood of many Native American Tribes.
I mean, Chicago is almost definitely destroyed (or a small town), just due to it's size alone. Memphis, I think will be a part of a Mississippi confederation, or a west Tennessee (or a city state)
Deleted member 108228
2007-08-01
The right to choose one’s leader is an inevitable facet of the human spirit. Many countries attempted to resist this fact, but they all fell to the demands of democracy and self-government. The Soviet Union crumbled in response to national aspirations for democracy. China presumed it could avoid this fate- the ruling Communist Party thought Tiananmen would be forgotten by the people. Now, the Chinese regime recognizes that the more they suppress democracy, the brighter it burns.
As the new century dawned more and more members within the party realized democracy was a necessity. Their motive was not altruistic but rather a calculated gamble to keep the populace satisfied enough to nullify any demands for real, structural change. Jiang’s successor presided over numerous important reforms such as the opening of a stock exchange in Beijing and the creation of numerous Special Economic Zones (SEZs) to facilitate foreign investment. This signaled a shift away from the old totalitarian system, in which everything was dictated from the top-down by the all-powerful Central Committee.
In the new system, every member of the Communist Party would have the opportunity to vote for both the National Congress, the Central Committee, and even the highest position within the Communist Party- the General Secretary.
It was hoped that with the advent of intra-party democracy, the need for higher state organs such as the Politburo and Standing Committee would be abolished, but the party liberals made it clear that intra-party democracy must work in order for the experiment to continue. In addition, party conservatives have made it clear that they won’t stand for these “capitalist roader reforms”. The most prominent of these voices is Xi Jinping, who intends to break this new system and bring back the ideals of “true Leninist thought” within the party.
The liberal faction, even if they are part of the same party that killed millions of people in the ‘60s, should be seen as the lesser evil compared to the hardliners. In a way, this should be seen as the coming of a Chinese perestroika, whereby the people will be able to express their opinions, and show the world that democracy has applications outside the West as well.
Electoral Violence Rocks Beijing Amid Chaotic Elections
By Zhang Yuzhong | chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2007-08-16 13:47
Unrest brews in Beijing as reports of violence among rival factions of the CPC threaten to disrupt the already fragile election process. Local party offices have been ransacked by masked men and open street combat between rival factions threaten to undo the last few years’ work of reform in China.
Already, the chaos around the elections has been touted by party conservatives as a sign that the reform package has been a monumental failure, highlighting the gross factionalism that plagues a once united party. In particular, the city of Beijing has experienced some of the worst infighting in the weeks preceding the election. Zhou Yongkang, a member of the liberal faction and major presidential candidate, has been criticized for his unwillingness to restore order in the worst-affected areas of the city. These areas have been suffering from an uptick in poverty and factional infighting, and have seen the worst of electoral violence.
Local Li Qiang comments on the violence that has escalated throughout his neighborhood and the instability the elections have brought:
“Just look at this street- nothing but decay and fire. My business has been ransacked, and the local deputy hasn’t charged anyone for this. How can anyone say this election will change anything?!”
This hasn’t only affected the lower classes of Beijing. The violence has spread to the suburbs, but not in the way one would think. People are being intimidated by gangs to vote for Zhou. Many have been either coerced with cash, pay raises, or brute force in order to keep them in line. One such civilian, who has asked to remain anonymous, remarks on the similarities between this and Russia post-Yeltsin:
“No one can argue that the reform package has been good, but it’s so entrenched within the party that it’d take someone with enough will to uproot all of it. Every major candidate, save for Xi, Chen, and many others, has used some form of intimidation to get us to vote. This is exactly what Putin did when the Communist Party challenged his regime- they harassed, bribed, and killed, all to keep them in line. How can anyone say this will be different?”
With the election still underway, it remains to be seen if this intimidation will result in the triumph of the liberals, or if firebrand Xi Jinping can make it and, in his words, “steer the ship back on the right direction.”
OPINION: ‘Trucker lords’ in collusion with prominent liberal politicians
By Steve Harrow
Source: Global Times
Published: 2007/10/8 15:41:19
China and trucking always was an uneasy combination. During the administrations of both Jiang Zemin and his successor, the opening of the nation to foreign investment and technology gave truckers a competitive advantage. As they became too much to handle, many local governments turned over trucker regulation to newly-formed private enterprises.
In theory, these enterprises and their leaders would have the full support of the national, provincial, and municipal governments, provided they delivered said products on time and with the utmost quality of transportation.
That is no longer the case.
Nearly a decade after trucker privatization was implemented, China’s trucking industry has fallen under the control of what many disparangely call “trucker lords”. These ‘trucker lords’ have become the subject of much controversy due to their alleged ties to the CPC’s liberal faction, being seen as their main agent in China’s interior provinces.
One infamous ‘trucker lord’ is Huang Zhou, whose trucking empire spans Xinjiang, Qinghai, Gansu, Shanxi and the Ningxia Autonomous Region. He is a personal friend of leading liberal politician Bo Xilai and there is much suspicion that the latter uses Huang’s network to enrich himself via extortions and kickbacks on vital goods and services. In addition, it has been observed, but officially reported that trucker lords have been strong-arming and intimidating local CPC party members into voting for the liberal bloc. Many trucker lords have raised prices, rendered services unavailable, and in some cases even simply refused to deliver supplies in order to starve disobedient regions into voting for their preferred candidate. But in most cases, it seems they prefer intimidation and violence. Hong Kuang, a provincial clerk from Qinghai and prominent critic of the trucker lords, was found dead last week, having been shot twenty-three times- an open warning to anyone who speaks out against their webs of influence.
The trucker lords’ influence has become even more apparent after the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection investigated prominent trucker lords and discovered many of them had married into the families of major liberal politicians. Li Changchun, a careerist politician noted as a “fixer” of Shenzhen’s corporate monopolies, has been documented making contractual marriages between corporate leaders and major trucker lords, formalizing already-established agreements.
It is clear that the trucker lords have significant influence over this election, and perhaps many more for the foreseeable future. As the trucker lords become increasingly entwined with the liberal faction of the CPC, the hardliners seem like the only Chinese faction willing to root out corruption and break the power of these trucker lords.
The author is an expert in Chinese internal politics who writes about China’s current situation. He holds a Bachelor of Journalism degree. opinion@globaltimes.com.cn
Xi stresses the need for the reinvigoration of socialism with Chinese characteristics amid growing instability
(Xinhua) 05:32, October 15, 2007
Xi Jinping, Party Secretary of Zhejiang province, and candidate for the position of General Secretary in China’s first elections, calls for a return to the pre-Jiang era, citing core issues within the Chinese economy and nation as the failing of the Program for Inter-Party Democracy for the Development of Socialism.
BEIJING, Oct. 15 (Xinhua) -- Xi Jinping has called for a massive, party-wide rejection of the Development Program and the return to the traditions of the Communist Party.
Xi, a major frontrunner for the position of General Secretary, has made it clear that socialism will not be discarded in favor of relentless economic growth, and the interior of the People’s Republic will not be abandoned.
Xi underlined the main cause of strife and social upheaval being the Development Program, one initiated by Jiang’s successor. The campaign that was supposed to actualize true intra-party democracy and represent the will of the people has caused great upheaval in the Communist Party. The process by which the Communist Party has to organize, prepare, and safeguard nearly a hundred million ballots is already daunting enough, but with the introduction of factionalism, there is a greater impetus for catastrophe.
Already, reports of fraud in Shandong, Jiangsu, Zhejiang, and Fujian have frustrated many in the Central Committee and the Central Political Bureau.
Because of the Development Program, as well as other programs initiated during, GDP in the coastal provinces has increased by 40% in the past decade, while GDP in the interior provinces have remained where they were during Jiang Zemin’s tenure. In addition, economic inequality has reached levels never thought possible in the People’s Republic.
“How can the people's livelihood be secured when those roaders in Beijing do nothing to uplift the people’s wellbeing? Look around you- does this look like socialism? Does rampant inequality, open patronage, and street violence look like it? Ask yourself if these platitudes to the West are worth it. Is it really worth it to throw away the hard work our fathers and grandfathers have put in the development of the nation?”
Xi has emphasized if he wins the election, he will eliminate the inequality between the regions, reverse the Program, and steer the country back on the path of socialism.
Elections in China prove inconclusive (Updated Live)
Jeffery Kuang
Published 12:32, October 19, 2007
The circumstances surrounding the first Communist Party election were marred by chaos and confusion, with nearly a thousand deaths due to electoral violence. Nevertheless after nine days of extensive counting the newly-formed Central Elections Department announced the results.
Only Communist Party factions were allowed to run. Two broad coalitions developed, one led by renowned hardliner Xi Jinping and the other by prominent liberal figure Bo Xilai. Candidates Ling Jinhua, Li Changchun, Zhou Yongkang and Wu Bangguo agreed to caucus with Xilai while Chen Quanguo, Li Jianguo, Zhang Dejiang, Zhang Youxia, and Zhou Qiang reached an agreement to govern with Xi should he win. Nevertheless, both coalitions are at an impasse- although the Xi-led hardliner coalition has a slight plurality in all the higher Chinese organs of state it has not obtained a majority as dictated by the Rules Office of the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection.
With this political inconclusivity, it remains to be seen which direction China’s newborn semi-democracy will take the nation in…,
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