What would be the ramifications of a world with a CP U.S. and a CP victory? Any POD is acceptable. I've always wondered if a defeated Entente would start a second World War.
Depend but the proper answer would be No unless Entente is all or nothing with revenge, even if USA broke down with CP or going again Isolationist, not USA or market price supplies for USA are beyond entente economical capacities, even without a lend and lease pararell, just paying for food could cost a fortune if USA demand both side to buy them and keep their trade quiet, and not only that, even if Germany not annex anythign for france, Germany now have Belgium as a satellite meaning france could get invaded easily.What would be the ramifications of a world with a CP U.S. and a CP victory? Any POD is acceptable. I've always wondered if a defeated Entente would start a second World War.
That's why many agree, including Churchill, that a CP victory would have resulted in no WW2.Depend but the proper answer would be No unless Entente is all or nothing with revenge, even if USA broke down with CP or going again Isolationist, not USA or market price supplies for USA are beyond entente economical capacities, even without a lend and lease pararell, just paying for food could cost a fortune if USA demand both side to buy them and keep their trade quiet, and not only that, even if Germany not annex anythign for france, Germany now have Belgium as a satellite meaning france could get invaded easily.
Even if both UK, France and Russia goes red or black, and decide that they've to defeat germany now or never...is still a hard war. one they could loss it if not fast enough.
Yeah and as i mentioned, unless the Neo Entete goes in a double or nothing against germany(Kaiserreich kinda make sense if Russia goes Red too, they're playing the future of the revolution, if they fail to beat germany there not revolution and we are all hanged together anyway), if anything France might learn revanche was for nothing.That's why many agree, including Churchill, that a CP victory would have resulted in no WW2.
The Central Powers weren't fascist, and I believe German was pretty democratic. Hitler probably wouldn't amount to anything in politics.thaa Natsoc germany with actual competent leadership instead of a failed art student on top of having a US alliance? Well, if you want a fascist-run world as a result...
They were basically a military dictatorship by 1916...The Central Powers weren't fascist, and I believe German was pretty democratic. Hitler probably wouldn't amount to anything in politics.
That is very true, but I don't think a military dictatorship after a victory would have been sustainable and legitimate even if Hindenburg and Ludendorff wanted to continue it. I believe the Kaiser promised an abolition to the 3 rank system in the Prussian Landtag(regarding the importance a return to democracy would have), though the military would be quite venerated.They were basically a military dictatorship by 1916...
There's a potential for Germany to go fascist in the 20s or 30s even with a CP win given the intellectual currents floating around.The Central Powers weren't fascist, and I believe German was pretty democratic. Hitler probably wouldn't amount to anything in politics.
But only very ... VERY "basically".They were basically a military dictatorship by 1916...
thaa Natsoc germany with actual competent leadership instead of a failed art student on top of having a US alliance? Well, if you want a fascist-run world as a result...
So ... no mater what germany and the germans go fascist and Nazi ...There's a potential for Germany to go fascist in the 20s or 30s even with a CP win given the intellectual currents floating around.
Yes, the intellectual currents in pre-war Germany were already extremely Volkish and nationalistic. But I would expect a slow-burn kind of authoritarianism, rather than Nazism, which is kinda fucked up in its own way because such state can last very long.There's a potential for Germany to go fascist in the 20s or 30s even with a CP win given the intellectual currents floating around.
Fascism requires a strong man and extreme nationalism. Unlike Italy, which only gained a bit and so would become fascist OTL, Germany is chocking on its nationalist aspirations. Why would people vote in fascists when their demands would have already been met. What would the fascists even angle for to annex?So ... no mater what germany and the germans go fascist and Nazi ...
Thank You
You've offered up zero by the way of a scenario for how this happens? Or what kind of victory? You've utterly changed the politics of the pre-WWI world but you don't offer up any PODs or parameters? Based on the details you've provided the answer is yes, the Entente might start a second World War, or decide to emigrate to Mars, your setup is vague enough for either to be plausible.What would be the ramifications of a world with a CP U.S. and a CP victory? Any POD is acceptable. I've always wondered if a defeated Entente would start a second World War.
We avoid the Holocaust and the gulags, but continued colonialism could lead to its own atrocities as Germany tries to hang onto its resource base for the Cold War.
Speaking of which, I once read a rather persuasive thesis written by @Alexniko that White Victory in Russia would end up being leagues worse than a Stalin run one. Whether that's correct, not my place to say, but as I said, he was persuasive.
Shall I repost it here? I didn't mention the power struggle between the various white generals following the defeat of soviet power in my orriginal post. I could also just quote myself, in that case it wouldn't take that much space in this thread