Could WWI start in 1913 over Albania?

[raharris1973]

What if Serbia and Greece take a hard line that there should *not* be an Albania and they should partition the territory, maybe because they feel confident in Russian backing.

But then Austria and possibly Italy are adamant there should be an Albania, and Austria at least decided to use this as an occasion for a showdown to crush Serbia.

Everybody’s patron backs them like in 1914 and we get war in 1913. Is it plausible? Will the great power line up be the same? Or will Italy be more likely CP because it supports Albanian independence too?

How would all the Balkan countries line up?

 

[Wendell]

The British are not going to war to let one weak terrorist state destroy a newly independent, weaker neighbor.

 

[raharris1973]

The British are not going to war to let one weak terrorist state destroy a newly independent, weaker neighbor.

will that be crystal clear to the French and Russians?
What if it isn’t? And the Germans schlieffen through Belgium?

 

[Grey Wolf]

Britain didn't go to war for Serbia, they went to war 50-50 for Belgium and for France in 1914

The actual cause of the war in 1914 became irrelevant - there was general sympathy in Britain for Austria-Hungary after the murder of Franz Ferdinand and his wife

That was never the issue

 

[33k7]

to be frankly honest Albania should never have existed when Italy demanded it's creation everyone else should have kicked him in the balls and told him to shut up. this would have greatly calm down the tensions in the Balkans for some time if Serbia and Greece were given Albania's land they would have given up their claims over land promised to Bulgaria. no second Balkan war no destabilizing of the Russian control over most of the Balkan States

it's not mention much but also a lot of people living in the Balkans especially East Orthodox consider this an betrayal by the Russian Empire yeah sure you're the Protectors of the East Orthodox Faith you just let a muslim-majority Albania pop into existence after we conquered It.

 

[Lee-Sensei]

to be frankly honest Albania should never have existed when Italy demanded it's creation everyone else should have kicked him in the balls and told him to shut up. this would have greatly calm down the tensions in the Balkans for some time if Serbia and Greece were given Albania's land they would have given up their claims over land promised to Bulgaria. no second Balkan war no destabilizing of the Russian control over most of the Balkan States

it's not mention much but also a lot of people living in the Balkans especially East Orthodox consider this an betrayal by the Russian Empire yeah sure you're the Protectors of the East Orthodox Faith you just let a muslim-majority Albania pop into existence after we conquered It.

Austria-Hungary supported Albanian independence too.

Austro-Hungarian Naval Policy, 1904-1914

This unique and comprehensive account describes the interplay of internal and external factors in the emergence of the Austro-Hungarian Navy from a coastal defence force in 1904 to a respectable battle force capable of the joint operations with other Triple Alliance fleets in the Mediterranean...

books.google.ca

Greece and Serbia aren’t taking Albania without the approval of both countries. Besides that, the Second Balkan War had much more to do with the Bulgarians than the Albanians.

 

[Germaniac]

to be frankly honest Albania should never have existed when Italy demanded it's creation everyone else should have kicked him in the balls and told him to shut up. this would have greatly calm down the tensions in the Balkans for some time if Serbia and Greece were given Albania's land they would have given up their claims over land promised to Bulgaria. no second Balkan war no destabilizing of the Russian control over most of the Balkan States

it's not mention much but also a lot of people living in the Balkans especially East Orthodox consider this an betrayal by the Russian Empire yeah sure you're the Protectors of the East Orthodox Faith you just let a muslim-majority Albania pop into existence after we conquered It.

To be frankly honest Serbia and Greece had no business seizing any of Macedonia. The Great Powers were treaty bound to protect the territorial integrity of Ottoman Rumelia.

I don't see how simply because they were Christian they have any right to Albania.

 

[33k7]

To be frankly honest Serbia and Greece had no business seizing any of Macedonia. The Great Powers were treaty bound to protect the territorial integrity of Ottoman Rumelia.

I don't see how simply because they were Christian they have any right to Albania.

1.an what purpose did it serve denying Serbia the right to have access to the Sea and keeping it landlocked. do you know my how much an economic boom that would have been for the country of Serbia they might not have had so much political Strife if they hadn't done that and avoided a war possibly a World War ya there might have been Rebel activity but guess what they're preoccupied getting rid of the rebellious albanians and not dealing with secret plans to kill archduke's and their wives.

2.hundreds of years of Christians fighting against Muslim control over their lands yeah that had nothing to do with it.I mean no disrespect here but do this take your modern glasses off and put yourself in the shoes of the people of this time and tell me you wouldn't feel f***** over at that moment.

Austria-Hungary supported Albanian independence too.

Greece and Serbia aren’t taking Albania without the approval of both countries. Besides that, the Second Balkan War had much more to do with the Bulgarians than the Albanians.

Austria-Hungary did a lot of things and a lot of it wasn't smart.

why did they keep the lands that they promised they would give to Bulgaria because they felt cheated in the Treaty of London cough cough Albania was given its own nationhood
it was a stupid decision by the great powers that inflame the situation in the Balkans even more.

 

[Germaniac]

1.an what purpose did it serve denying Serbia the right to have access to the Sea and keeping it landlocked. do you know my how much an economic boom that would have been for the country of Serbia they might not have had so much political Strife if they hadn't done that and avoided a war possibly a World War ya there might have been Rebel activity but guess what they're preoccupied getting rid of the rebellious albanians and not dealing with secret plans to kill archduke's and their wives.
View attachment 523945

2.hundreds of years of Christians fighting against Muslim control over their lands yeah that had nothing to do with it.I mean no disrespect here but do this take your modern glasses off and put yourself in the shoes of the people of this time and tell me you wouldn't feel f***** over at that moment.


Austria-Hungary did a lot of things and a lot of it wasn't smart.

why did they keep the lands that they promised they would give to Bulgaria because they felt cheated in the Treaty of London cough cough Albania was given its own nationhood
it was a stupid decision by the great powers that inflame the situation in the Balkans even more.

Nationalism is a stinky cologne

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

1.an what purpose did it serve denying Serbia the right to have access to the Sea and keeping it landlocked. do you know my how much an economic boom that would have been for the country of Serbia they might not have had so much political Strife if they hadn't done that and avoided a war possibly a World War ya there might have been Rebel activity but guess what they're preoccupied getting rid of the rebellious albanians and not dealing with secret plans to kill archduke's and their wives.
View attachment 523945

2.hundreds of years of Christians fighting against Muslim control over their lands yeah that had nothing to do with it.I mean no disrespect here but do this take your modern glasses off and put yourself in the shoes of the people of this time and tell me you wouldn't feel f***** over at that moment.


Austria-Hungary did a lot of things and a lot of it wasn't smart.

why did they keep the lands that they promised they would give to Bulgaria because they felt cheated in the Treaty of London cough cough Albania was given its own nationhood
it was a stupid decision by the great powers that inflame the situation in the Balkans even more.

Serbia was a state sponsor of terrorism that was openly hostile to Austria-Hungary. Why should Vienna let it control its access to the wider Mediterranean?

Also, regarding your comment about "take your modern glasses off", Northern Albania was (and in fact still is) overwhelmingly Catholic. Any more questions as to why Rome and Vienna lined up behind Albania? Or is sectarianism only valid when it benefits the Orthodox faith?

 

[Germaniac]

1.an what purpose did it serve denying Serbia the right to have access to the Sea and keeping it landlocked. do you know my how much an economic boom that would have been for the country of Serbia they might not have had so much political Strife if they hadn't done that and avoided a war possibly a World War ya there might have been Rebel activity but guess what they're preoccupied getting rid of the rebellious albanians and not dealing with secret plans to kill archduke's and their wives.

Are you suggesting that at the very least ethnic cleansing is worth it to prevent the assassination? And by the way If you think for a second the Serbs were going to abandon their expansionist plans in the North you clearly are the one with blinders on.

 

[33k7]

Serbia was a state sponsor of terrorism that was openly hostile to Austria-Hungary. Why should Vienna let it control its access to the wider Mediterranean?

Also, regarding your comment about "take your modern glasses off", Northern Albania was (and in fact still is) overwhelmingly Catholic. Any more questions as to why Rome and Vienna lined up behind Albania? Or is sectarianism only valid when it benefits the Orthodox faith?

really they went to defend the Catholic minority in the north are you kidding then why was wied Prince of Albania Protestant and the Kingdom of Italy had really no say over the Catholic religion because they had the pope Under Siege because they wanted to control Vatican City as well it took an atheist Benito Mussolini to end that stupid thing.

Are you suggesting that at the very least ethnic cleansing is worth it to prevent the assassination? And by the way If you think for a second the Serbs were going to abandon their expansionist plans in the North you clearly are the one with blinders on.

who the hell said anything about ethnic cleansing. the only people that did that in this time where the Ottomans to the Armenians. I'm simply saying that the serbians would be busy putting down rebellions for a little bit. an with Russia having a lot more credit in the Balkans because they didn't sell out. Russia can afford to throw a terrorist sponsor State like Serbia under the bus and they would know it and probably wouldn't be funding the black hand because of fear that they might get completely destroyed by Austria if they tried something so stupid.

Nationalism is a stinky cologne

welcome to pre-World War Europe

 

[Germaniac]

really they went to defend the Catholic minority in the north are you kidding then why was wied Prince of Albania Protestant and the Kingdom of Italy had really no say over the Catholic religion because they had the pope Under Siege because they wanted to control Vatican City as well it took an atheist Benito Mussolini to end that stupid thing.


who the hell said anything about ethnic cleansing. the only people that did that in this time where the Ottomans to the Armenians. I'm simply saying that the serbians would be busy putting down rebellions for a little bit. an with Russia having a lot more credit in the Balkans because they didn't sell out. Russia can afford to throw a terrorist sponsor State like Serbia under the bus and they would know it and probably wouldn't be funding the black hand because of fear that they might get completely destroyed by Austria if they tried something so stupid.



welcome to pre-World War Europe
View attachment 523963

The very fact that there will be rebellions is a clear sign the people there DO NOT WANT TO BE IN SERBIA. The "Christian" Balkan states had no problem with ethnic cleansing and I could provide you with any number of sources on this.

The Serbs have no intention of "protecting" the catholics in northern Albania any more than they did the Muslims in their state.

Let me ask this, Why do the Serbs deserve the right to self determination and not the Albanians?

 

[MUC]

to be frankly honest Albania should never have existed when Italy demanded it's creation everyone else should have kicked him in the balls and told him to shut up. this would have greatly calm down the tensions in the Balkans for some time if Serbia and Greece were given Albania's land they would have given up their claims over land promised to Bulgaria. no second Balkan war no destabilizing of the Russian control over most of the Balkan States

it's not mention much but also a lot of people living in the Balkans especially East Orthodox consider this an betrayal by the Russian Empire yeah sure you're the Protectors of the East Orthodox Faith you just let a muslim-majority Albania pop into existence after we conquered It.

I smell genocide...

 

[MUC]

who the hell said anything about ethnic cleansing. the only people that did that in this time where the Ottomans to the Armenians. I'm simply saying that the serbians would be busy putting down rebellions for a little bit. an with Russia having a lot more credit in the Balkans because they didn't sell out. Russia can afford to throw a terrorist sponsor State like Serbia under the bus and they would know it and probably wouldn't be funding the black hand because of fear that they might get completely destroyed by Austria if they tried something so stupid.

Well "systematic" ethnic cleansing at the scale of the Armenian genocide, yes.
But what the Greeks and the Bulgarians did do in today's lands of Greek Macedonia, Northern Macedonia, Thrace prior to the 1. Balkan war was a form of ethnic cleansing too. Covert ethnic cleansing.

 

[33k7]

I smell genocide...

Well "systematic" ethnic cleansing at the scale of the Armenian genocide, yes.
But what the Greeks and the Bulgarians did do in today's lands of Greek Macedonia, Northern Macedonia, Thrace prior to the 1. Balkan war was a form of ethnic cleansing too. Covert ethnic cleansing.

yeah course the rest of the world were completely ignore that you wouldn't see newspapers in Britain and the United States printing that causing the whole world to focus on Serbia. what happened to Belgium is still fresh in everyone's mind trying to do something like that in Mainland Europe would just be suicidal and giving the austrians and Italians the excuse they need to come after Serbia.


.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

then why was wied Prince of Albania Protestant

Because Germany is a trash ally.

and the Kingdom of Italy had really no say over the Catholic religion because they had the pope Under Siege because they wanted to control Vatican City as well it took an atheist Benito Mussolini to end that stupid thing.

Irrelevant. Italy recognized that Albania's large Catholic minority was a potent vector of influence and throughout the early 1900s would subsidize Catholic schools in the region.

Is this hypocritical given Italy's domestic policy? Yeah, but Italian foreign policy being treacherously opportunistic is par for the course in this period.

 

[33k7]

Let me ask this, Why do the Serbs deserve the right to self determination and not the Albanians?

let me throw the question back at you why does the International Community have any say in this matter Why did the Great Powers have any say in the war when they didn't even fight in.

 

[Germaniac]

let me throw the question back at you why does the International Community have any say in this matter Why did the Great Powers have any say in the war when they didn't even fight in.

Not answering the question is very telling...

 

[Analytical Engine]

let me throw the question back at you why does the International Community have any say in this matter Why did the Great Powers have any say in the war when they didn't even fight in.

Because muscling in on things to shape them to their own benefit is what Great Powers do.

The Great Powers dictated what borders Bulgaria had after independence.