Interesting AH ideas that aren't commonly used

[kernals12]

Anything involving Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf States. A Gaddafi-esque figure coming to power there would reek havoc in world politics.

 

[McPherson]

Technology – no lithophile metallurgy existed anywhere in the world before Humphry Davy in 1807 – and lack of understanding of soil fertilisation would have made it virtually impossible to settle Australia before the British did so in 1788.

Even today, the antiquity (over 600,000,000 years vis-à-vis just 10,000 years for almost all European soils) and resultant nutritional poverty of almost all soils in the relatively well-watered northern districts of Australia remains an insurmountable obstacle to agriculture. The nutritional importance of the chalcophile elements (copper, zinc, selenium) in which northern Australian soils are even more deficient than they are in the macronutrients phosphorus and sulfur (except in the Wet Tropics where effectively all soil sulfur is organic sulfur) was not known until the 1950s. Southern Australian soils – except for a roughly crescent-shaped area between Singleton and Birdsville – are almost equally old (300,000,000 years) and nutrient-poor.

Polynesians and early Europeans knew – even if they lacked words to express it – just how impoverished almost all coastal soils in Australia are, and one can be sure no explorer possessed desire to look further.

If Australia had remained un-taken after Humphry Davy discovered how to smelt lithophile metals via electrolysis, there would be the possibility of the Dutch settling Australia. In such a scenario, I imagine an even more racially intolerant early twentieth-century Australia, quite likely modelled after the Boer Republics. Whether the large landowners would have captured such as “Boer” Australian state I do not know. If they would have – given that the countries Australian most resembles ecologically and economically are the Arab Gulf oil monarchies, with the difference being that Australia’s resources are coal and lithophile metals rather than oil – Australia would remain an absolute monarchy even today. If the large landowners would not capture the state (less likely) Australia would be a very conservative republic even today.

I'm certain by 1858 that at least in America (and in India, same cause cotton) the lithophile (soils) problem will be suspected and fertilization will be a necessary revolution as it became. The possibility of settlement in Australia still depends a bit on British politics and trade routes and exploitables. The iron deposits of New Caledonia for example, (France, the British missed that one.) but I digress.

However, what if the Dutch do settle southern Australia? Why would not they suffer the same New Amsterdam/New York/South Africa/Boer Republic outcome? It would still mean a LOT of heartburn for the 20th Century unpleasantness known as WW II.

Specifically in that case, the butterflies would madly flap ill winds in a wide variety things such as local politics (Imagine MacArthur trying to deal with Conrad Helfrich, a very difficult man and ally politically, though stubborn and courageous.), and in such things as relations with the indigenous peoples. The British origin Australians were fair to excellent with the south Pacific peoples. The Dutch were decidedly not as good.

I can see a host of other negative effects, primarily logistical and inter-allied co-operation due to a different set of economic development pathways and interests. Suffice it to say, that there would be fewer Anzacs fighting and a lot more Japanese further south than historically. This is not because a Dutch Australia would be any less courageous or willing, it would have more to do with the manpower base and extent of infrastructure. Whyalla, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Fremantle, Perth would likely not be as well developed based on Indonesian history as naval bases. Darwin might have been better organized due to its proximity to Dutch Indonesia.

IOW, a very different Pacific naval war. For example, why develop Singapore? No reason if no empire east of the Malay Strait.

 

[McPherson]

Thx for this. It's not the approach I imagined, but it works nicely.

Now let me flip it & ask one I came across some years ago: WI Spain had settled *Oz? IIRC, the argument went, it was a lot like Spain, so settlers would adapt easily, & TTL Oz would end up with a much larger population.

Still no opinions on industrializing New Guinea? There's pretty good hydro....& a big gold deposit.

One other I have never seen: WI the Holy Roman Empire doesn't fall? Somehow Napoleon falls under a carriage or something & never invades? What does that mean for Germany? For Europe?

Americans would be down on her like wolves in 1898; if the British had not already got there during the Napoleonic Wars.

 

[darklordoftech]

AIDS cured

 

[mottajack]

French India surviving as some kind of enclave or even a negotiated independence in a scenario where Indian unification is butterflied away.

Chandernagor, Pondichery... my mom still remember them, from memory, from her school days, 60 years ago

 

[mottajack]

quite paradoxically, von Braun 1969 plan to go to Mars in 1982 or 1986 has never been done on this forum - probably because of Stephan Baxter novel Voyage. A NASA wank with NERVA and a 1982 landing remains to be done, however.

 

[mottajack]

I tend to have a lot of interesting AH ideas that aren't commonly used (at least publically, on here), mainly relating to:

• Automobile industry (obvious since I'm an automotive geek)
• Economics
  
• Obscure local politics

Listing them all would take a lot of time, but I'll list some WIs here:

• WI Florida split into North & South Florida in the 2000s or 2010s a la the Dakotas or Carolinas being separate states? (or is that too risky to post as a WI due to rules on politics here)
• WI police scandal involving major corruption in the 2000s in Florida, worse than Fajita-gate?

Formula One is shock full of awesome PODs but has little audience on that board.

Shame that the last try (The house of Tyrrell TL) was interrupted by the author being banned for obscure reasons. He wasn't even allowed to post at least his draft TL.

 

[phx1138]

Formula One is shock full of awesome PODs but has little audience on that board.

Shame that the last try (The house of Tyrrell TL) was interrupted by the author being banned for obscure reasons. He wasn't even allowed to post at least his draft TL.

Boy, is that ever true. Any year in the '60s, you've got half a dozen, easy. Even the obvious ones are interesting: Clark, Stuck, &/or Senna don't die; Senna wins Monaco '84; Moss becomes World Champion; Eddie Jordan stops being everybody's farm club.

NASCAR in the '60s has a few, too. Like Fireball Roberts not getting killed. And Dale Sr not, either, later.

 

[Time Enough]

The Tientsin incident escalating to a War between Britain and Japan in the Summer of 1939. That would certainly lead to a bunch of oddities from it, I could see France, Commonwealth and maybe the Dutch getting involved out of a common fear of a Japan. The KMT get more military support and a less ready Japanese who's also fighting the Soviet Union gets into trouble as they deal with the Europeans. This could also lead to the Nazi's trying to invade Poland whilst the Europeans are busy with Japan.

 

[John Roscommon]

Curtains For Cortez: La Noche Triste; Nobody Gets Out Of Here Alive.

 

[mottajack]

Senna don't die; Senna wins Monaco '84

The uncovenient truth was that Senna car was dying, he had damaged a wheel against a wall earlier on. Although he actually passed Prost just as the race stopped, so one or two more lap and he would have won... provided the Toleman hold on. Then again, Bellof Tyrrel was not damaged and he was catching Senna even faster than Senna was catching on Prost, for a simple reason: he had no turbo in his car, only a 550 hp Cosworth - and in such apocalyptic conditions and in Monaco, it actually helped. Prost, by contrast, had to handle 900 hp or even more. Plus carbon brakes that were icy cold and unefficients, when all the other pilots steel brakes were handling that torrential rain much, much better.

The way I see it, we probably missed a furious battle between Bellof and Senna. Senna being Senna, he may have hold Bellof, although the later was three years older (born 1957 when Senna was 1960) and he had a lot of experience in Group C / Le Mans / Endurance.

So who knows how the battle between those two hot heads would have ended.

Stefan Bellof, Schumacher idol and one hell of a talented pilot that died way too young, although his death was due to him being reckless in Spa Francorchamps. Interestingly enough, Bellof was screwed twice by Belgian all time champion Jacky Ixck. He stopped Monaco 84 as Senna (and Bellof) were ready to eat leader Alain Prost for breakfast; and the same Belgian driver was part of Bellof lethal accident (although it was Bellof fault).

Maybe I should ask Overninethousands (he is a friend of mine) if I could post his TL.

 

[Tresckow]

Zhili/Beiyang defeating KMT in the Warlord Era

 

[mottajack]

More conservatives dying in KAL-007. The story is, that peculiar flight (and another that was NOT shot down, KE-015) were carrying to South Korea a bunch of U.S conservatives that were commemorating the 1953 armistice 30th birthday (1953 - 1983). OTL only Larry McDonald was lost but the very unlikable Jesse Helms and a bunch of least known conservatives were on board KE-015. Which did not got lost by 500 miles pretty stupidly, and hence was not shot down by pissed off Soviets.
At some points there were even rumors that Nixon was onboard one of the two planes, but I never found a valid source for that. now imagine, if Nixon and Helms joined McDonald in KAL-007 watery grave. Reagan would be even more pissed-off, and only 30 days later, so would Stanislas Petrov... and Able Archer is coming fast, too, scaring the shit out of the Soviets.

 

[phx1138]

The uncovenient truth was that Senna car was dying, he had damaged a wheel against a wall earlier on. Although he actually passed Prost just as the race stopped, so one or two more lap and he would have won... provided the Toleman hold on. Then again, Bellof Tyrrel was not damaged and he was catching Senna even faster than Senna was catching on Prost, for a simple reason: he had no turbo in his car, only a 550 hp Cosworth - and in such apocalyptic conditions and in Monaco, it actually helped. Prost, by contrast, had to handle 900 hp or even more. Plus carbon brakes that were icy cold and unefficients, when all the other pilots steel brakes were handling that torrential rain much, much better.

The way I see it, we probably missed a furious battle between Bellof and Senna. Senna being Senna, he may have hold Bellof, although the later was three years older (born 1957 when Senna was 1960) and he had a lot of experience in Group C / Le Mans / Endurance.

So who knows how the battle between those two hot heads would have ended.

Stefan Bellof, Schumacher idol and one hell of a talented pilot that died way too young, although his death was due to him being reckless in Spa Francorchamps. Interestingly enough, Bellof was screwed twice by Belgian all time champion Jacky Ixck. He stopped Monaco 84 as Senna (and Bellof) were ready to eat leader Alain Prost for breakfast; and the same Belgian driver was part of Bellof lethal accident (although it was Bellof fault).

I didn't know that. Thx.

I entirely agree, Ickx buggered it. I'd be perfectly happy to see Bellof take the win. Especially if it changes his career trajectory just a bit, & he doesn't die. It seems likely the Monaco win would do that. (Becoming World Champ would be good, too. )

The question then becomes, who is Bellof displacing in whatever seat he does get? Whose career might be screwed? Or, actually helped?

 

[oberdada]

quite paradoxically, von Braun 1969 plan to go to Mars in 1982 or 1986 has never been done on this forum - probably because of Stephan Baxter novel Voyage. A NASA wank with NERVA and a 1982 landing remains to be done, however.

How about doing it as a result of the Soviets getting to the moon first?
They might have won twice, but Mars is double or nothing!

 

[mottajack]

I didn't know that. Thx.

I entirely agree, Ickx buggered it. I'd be perfectly happy to see Bellof take the win. Especially if it changes his career trajectory just a bit, & he doesn't die. It seems likely the Monaco win would do that. (Becoming World Champ would be good, too. )

The question then becomes, who is Bellof displacing in whatever seat he does get? Whose career might be screwed? Or, actually helped?

Excellent questions, you will see.

I don't want to hijack this thread further, check your private conversation box. Others can join if they are interested, of course.

 

[andry2806]

It's not about a precise POD or TL, but I always wanted to read a TL about post-1945 Italy which is centered around Italian crime history. I think that you can't truly understand modern Italy without understanding its underwood.

 

[McPherson]

It's not about a precise POD or TL, but I always wanted to read a TL about post-1945 Italy which is centered around Italian crime history. I think that you can't truly understand modern Italy without understanding its underwood.

"Roots?" Underwood. That is such a brilliant turn of word.

 

[Byzantion]

There are plenty of TLs which begin with a premise which has been used by many, or have ideas in the TL which again aren't that creative. But are there AH ideas which are plausible, but aren't commonly used (or in some cases, not used at all)?

OTL in 1918 the OHL suggested the Kaiser to voluntarily die in battle to present himself as a martyr and securing his son's emperorship and the monarchy. What would have been the consequences ?

 

[darklordoftech]

Frank Lautenberg as a Presidential candidate