Interesting AH ideas that aren't commonly used

Slavic Hungarians would bring an etnirely new colour to the pan-Slavist movement, that's fore sure. Maybe an alternate 1848 leads to the complete dethronement of the Habsburgs, and a republican, pan-Slavist federation would replace the old regime. The Germans might get autonomy in this new state. In the end, it would be interesting to see how the centralised, absolutist and imperialist Russian pan-Slavism would clash with this new, federal, republican and democratic pan-Slavism.
They would fight each others as with Poles. My guess. :D

Not sure even if it would be real panslavism. Maybe just localized to the borders of A-H. Croatian and Slavic Hungarian could decelop into single language. Slovaks or proto Slovaks as such would very likely adopt that language too.
Well indeed 1848 would be interesting. Or Austria would become part of Germany.
 
They would fight each others as with Poles. My guess. :D

Not sure even if it would be real panslavism. Maybe just localized to the borders of A-H. Croatian and Slavic Hungarian could decelop into single language. Slovaks or proto Slovaks as such would very likely adopt that language too.
Well indeed 1848 would be interesting. Or Austria would become part of Germany.
The language would most likely develop from a more numerous Pannonian Slavic population, so the assimilation of Slovak and Kajkavian Croat languages would be the easiest, and would probably happen naturally. Slovene and Moravian could be assimilated too. the Czech, Chakavian and Stokavian dialects would remain relatively distinct though. Torlakian would develop to be more like Bulgarian, and Polish would still remain distinct. Maybe this is how it would be.
 
The language would most likely develop from a more numerous Pannonian Slavic population, so the assimilation of Slovak and Kajkavian Croat languages would be the easiest, and would probably happen naturally. Slovene and Moravian could be assimilated too. the Czech, Chakavian and Stokavian dialects would remain relatively distinct though. Torlakian would develop to be more like Bulgarian, and Polish would still remain distinct. Maybe this is how it would be.
You see? And there would be one Hungarian nation. Somebody made a mistake some 1000 years ago. ;)

Very likely. Though some Slovak dialects at north could be still in local use fore a while as Ruthenian is today.
Moravian depends. Slovak and Moravian were very close but if Moravia is part of Czech kingdom...
Curious how Ruthenian language especially in Karpatlja would develop.
 
You see? And there would be one Hungarian nation. Somebody made a mistake some 1000 years ago. ;)

Very likely. Though some Slovak dialects at north could be still in local use fore a while as Ruthenian is today.
Moravian depends. Slovak and Moravian were very close but if Moravia is part of Czech kingdom...
Curious how Ruthenian language especially in Karpatlja would develop.
Well, this is not the thread to discuss this in depth. If it piqued your interest, why not make a separate thread for it?
 

xsampa

Banned
French India surviving as some kind of enclave or even a negotiated independence in a scenario where Indian unification is butterflied away.
 
George Romney being the Republican nominee in 1968. Would a Mormon be electable in 1968? Would Wallace get more votes than OTL because of Romney's religion?
 
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On another idea: WI the Dutch claim & settle New Holland, after discovering it? Does that mean (frex) the Boers end up there? Or does it become part of the DEI? (Does that also lead to a Dutch claim on New Guinea?)
Technology – no lithophile metallurgy existed anywhere in the world before Humphry Davy in 1807 – and lack of understanding of soil fertilisation would have made it virtually impossible to settle Australia before the British did so in 1788.

Even today, the antiquity (over 600,000,000 years vis-à-vis just 10,000 years for almost all European soils) and resultant nutritional poverty of almost all soils in the relatively well-watered northern districts of Australia remains an insurmountable obstacle to agriculture. The nutritional importance of the chalcophile elements (copper, zinc, selenium) in which northern Australian soils are even more deficient than they are in the macronutrients phosphorus and sulfur (except in the Wet Tropics where effectively all soil sulfur is organic sulfur) was not known until the 1950s. Southern Australian soils – except for a roughly crescent-shaped area between Singleton and Birdsville – are almost equally old (300,000,000 years) and nutrient-poor.

Polynesians and early Europeans knew – even if they lacked words to express it – just how impoverished almost all coastal soils in Australia are, and one can be sure no explorer possessed desire to look further.

If Australia had remained un-taken after Humphry Davy discovered how to smelt lithophile metals via electrolysis, there would be the possibility of the Dutch settling Australia. In such a scenario, I imagine an even more racially intolerant early twentieth-century Australia, quite likely modelled after the Boer Republics. Whether the large landowners would have captured such as “Boer” Australian state I do not know. If they would have – given that the countries Australian most resembles ecologically and economically are the Arab Gulf oil monarchies, with the difference being that Australia’s resources are coal and lithophile metals rather than oil – Australia would remain an absolute monarchy even today. If the large landowners would not capture the state (less likely) Australia would be a very conservative republic even today.
 
A large-scale anti-Qing rebellion that's less... insane than the Taiping Rebellion.
If a large-scale anti-Qing rebellion overthrew the Qing Dynasty, I would see China trying to modernise and become an imperialist power in the Pacific à la Japan between the Meiji Restoration and World War II. Alternatively, China might have tried to expand its influence in India and the Indian Rim, especially if this new modernising dynasty did not begin so early as to overlook the vast oil reserves of the Gulf.

Either way, it is easy for me to imagine a major war (even series of major wars) between China and Britain over the Indian subcontinent. In fact, I have myself imagined alternate scenarios like this where Yuan Shi Kai founded a new dynasty successfully after the Chinese Revolution and this new dynasty gained proper control over China. The difference is that China is much less resource-impoverished than Japan – indeed China is distinctly natural-resource-rich when no account is taken of its population – so it did not possess the incentives to be an imperialist power Japan did. If China turned inwards, one could see it being even more isolated than during Mao Zedong’s reign, but possibly much more developed industrially.
 

xsampa

Banned
If a large-scale anti-Qing rebellion overthrew the Qing Dynasty, I would see China trying to modernise and become an imperialist power in the Pacific à la Japan between the Meiji Restoration and World War II. Alternatively, China might have tried to expand its influence in India and the Indian Rim, especially if this new modernising dynasty did not begin so early as to overlook the vast oil reserves of the Gulf.

Either way, it is easy for me to imagine a major war (even series of major wars) between China and Britain over the Indian subcontinent. In fact, I have myself imagined alternate scenarios like this where Yuan Shi Kai founded a new dynasty successfully after the Chinese Revolution and this new dynasty gained proper control over China. The difference is that China is much less resource-impoverished than Japan – indeed China is distinctly natural-resource-rich when no account is taken of its population – so it did not possess the incentives to be an imperialist power Japan did. If China turned inwards, one could see it being even more isolated than during Mao Zedong’s reign, but possibly much more developed industrially.
An alliance with Persia and Afghanistan could help squeeze India, especially if there's a surviving Burma.
 
Mussolini stays neutral or joins the Allies. "Fascism" wouldn't mean what it's come to mean.
Mussolini staying neutral is definitely a big rarely discussed possibility. Most of the European dictators wanted to do just this – they viewed themselves as more traditional than either the democratic maritime Atlantic states or totalitarian, largely state-controlled Nazi Germany. Fascist Italy, with its “corporatist” structure and strong alliance with the Catholic Church via the Lateran Treaty, was an “intermediate” dictatorship between the two types, and I have certainly imagined the possibility of Mussolini staying neutral during World War II without ever considering the consequences before today.

If Mussolini stayed neutral, the first major consequence would be the absence of a war in North Africa. Consequently, Hitler would have never diverted troops from his effort to conquer Soviet Bolshevism, and more importantly without North Africa oil Hitler would have more likely recognised the greater strategic value of the Caspian oilfields vis-à-vis the city of Stalingrad. So it’s quite possible Hitler would have captured the Caspian oilfields of Azerbaijan and threatened those of Iran.

Things become really interesting here, because not having to fight in North Africa could have given the British and Americans more potential to work with Pahlavi Iran. In actual history, of course, Reza Shah Pahlavi was overthrown by the British and replaced by his son Muhammad Reza Shah Pahlavi. Would this prove impossible if Hitler had not had to divert troops to North Africa, or would the British have been able to not only overthrow Reza Shah, but also to get Iran to declare war on Germany and force the Germans out of the Caspian as or more rapidly vis-à-vis the actual war??

If Reza Shah stayed in power and became more pro-German, there would be a possible route to more Caspian oil in Turkmenia, which could have doomed the Soviet Union and led easily to Moscow being captured during the relatively mild winters of 1942/1943 or 1943/1944.

There is also the issue of which side a more-pressurised Turkey would have taken in the war under this scenario.

Another issue, much more relevant to Italy itself, is the possibility that if Mussolini had stayed neutral Italy could have held its colonies in Africa for much longer than Britain and France likely could. I imagine indeed that Italy could have held its African colonies until the 1980s, as the country would have had far more resources to fight a colonial war in Africa than did Salazar’s Portugal – who held their colonies until 1974. However, Italy holding its colonies until the 1980s, whilst conceivable to me, depends on how long Mussolini would have lived in the absence of war (if Mussolini lived as long as Salazar did he would have died in 1964) and Italy’s post-Mussolini politics.
 
Technology – no lithophile metallurgy existed anywhere in the world before Humphry Davy in 1807 – and lack of understanding of soil fertilisation would have made it virtually impossible to settle Australia before the British did so in 1788.

Even today, the antiquity (over 600,000,000 years vis-à-vis just 10,000 years for almost all European soils) and resultant nutritional poverty of almost all soils in the relatively well-watered northern districts of Australia remains an insurmountable obstacle to agriculture. The nutritional importance of the chalcophile elements (copper, zinc, selenium) in which northern Australian soils are even more deficient than they are in the macronutrients phosphorus and sulfur (except in the Wet Tropics where effectively all soil sulfur is organic sulfur) was not known until the 1950s. Southern Australian soils – except for a roughly crescent-shaped area between Singleton and Birdsville – are almost equally old (300,000,000 years) and nutrient-poor.

Polynesians and early Europeans knew – even if they lacked words to express it – just how impoverished almost all coastal soils in Australia are, and one can be sure no explorer possessed desire to look further.

If Australia had remained un-taken after Humphry Davy discovered how to smelt lithophile metals via electrolysis, there would be the possibility of the Dutch settling Australia. In such a scenario, I imagine an even more racially intolerant early twentieth-century Australia, quite likely modelled after the Boer Republics. Whether the large landowners would have captured such as “Boer” Australian state I do not know. If they would have – given that the countries Australian most resembles ecologically and economically are the Arab Gulf oil monarchies, with the difference being that Australia’s resources are coal and lithophile metals rather than oil – Australia would remain an absolute monarchy even today. If the large landowners would not capture the state (less likely) Australia would be a very conservative republic even today.
Thx for this. It's not the approach I imagined, but it works nicely.:cool:

Now let me flip it & ask one I came across some years ago: WI Spain had settled *Oz? IIRC, the argument went, it was a lot like Spain, so settlers would adapt easily, & TTL Oz would end up with a much larger population.:cool:

Still no opinions on industrializing New Guinea? There's pretty good hydro....& a big gold deposit.:cool:

One other I have never seen: WI the Holy Roman Empire doesn't fall? Somehow Napoleon falls under a carriage or something & never invades? What does that mean for Germany? For Europe?
 
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A large-scale anti-Qing rebellion that's less... insane than the Taiping Rebellion.

If a large-scale anti-Qing rebellion overthrew the Qing Dynasty, I would see China trying to modernise and become an imperialist power in the Pacific à la Japan between the Meiji Restoration and World War II. Alternatively, China might have tried to expand its influence in India and the Indian Rim, especially if this new modernising dynasty did not begin so early as to overlook the vast oil reserves of the Gulf.

Either way, it is easy for me to imagine a major war (even series of major wars) between China and Britain over the Indian subcontinent. In fact, I have myself imagined alternate scenarios like this where Yuan Shi Kai founded a new dynasty successfully after the Chinese Revolution and this new dynasty gained proper control over China. The difference is that China is much less resource-impoverished than Japan – indeed China is distinctly natural-resource-rich when no account is taken of its population – so it did not possess the incentives to be an imperialist power Japan did. If China turned inwards, one could see it being even more isolated than during Mao Zedong’s reign, but possibly much more developed industrially.

Many who joined the Taiping Rebellion where not Christians, or cared for Christianity, or for Hong Xiuquan madness. They all wanted 3 things: The Qing to be gone, land to farm, and rice to eat.

You still run the strong chance of China fragmenting. ( Xinjiang and Mongolia, Guizhou.)

Or even have the British help the anti-Qing rebellion.
 
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