Is Nazi rule worse than colonial conditions?

[spoonzandforkz]

The horrors of colonialism were truly bad, and same goes for Nazi Germany's atrocities in Europe.

But a thought struck me today, is Nazi rule in Europe (mainly focusing on Eastern Europe, namely Poland and the occupied territories of the USSR) "worse" than colonial rule in Africa, Southeast Asia or the Raj? (I think Africa was the worst, but I'm not sure here, could a more knowledged person help with that?)

 

[Jiraiyathegallant]

The Nazi’s goal in Eastern Europe tended to be literal extermination. While that sporadically happened in colonies, it’s pretty hard to beat General Plan Ost.

 

[Jukra]

The Nazi’s goal in Eastern Europe tended to be literal extermination. While that sporadically happened in colonies, it’s pretty hard to beat General Plan Ost.

Yes, and even in comparatively-* tenderly treated Western European countries, such as Denmark and France, extermination of Jews was a policy.

(* Compared to Eastern Europe)

 

[TheWildWestPyro]

The Nazis stand out because they industrialized genocide, turned it into a factory. A mechanical, cold process of extreme efficiency, of rounding up the undesirables, giving them a uniform and a number, jamming them into trains, sending trains to the camps, going over each prisoner's physical state, and quickly allocating them into either work or the gas chambers. Rinse and repeat.

Genocide up until Nazism was always a messy, long affair. Usually it took decades, even centuries of slowly killing a people off, with repeated massacres of those who resisted.

The Nazis killed 12 million people in just 12 years with their industrialized process.

It's important to remember that while colonialism had its bouts of ethnic cleansing, at least the subjects were allowed to continue living, no matter how badly oppressed they were. The Nazis were not only willing to murder entire peoples for simply existing, but enjoyed making the victims feel like cattle going to the slaughterhouse.

I personally call the Holocaust "the shame of the Western world", because of the world was so horrified when the truth was revealed. A horror so strong, that we remember it forever, that an entire generation of people suffers from continued trauma, that the Nazis are cemented as the go-to evil dictatorship in media.

Colonialism has done terrible things, runs on despotism. That's undeniable. But it'll never match up to the evils of the Nazi regime.

 

[oshron]

i'm a little surprised that this is even a question--Nazis are the go-to bad guys in media for a very, very, VERY good reason (or an extremely bad reason, depending on how you look at it, and i really hope that i don't need to explain what i mean by that)

 

[Snaut]

It depends if you mean western or eastern Europe. I think it can be argued that the German occupation of eastern Europe was similarly bad as some of the harshest cases of colonial rule in Africa or elsewhere, such as the Belgian rule in Congo, the German rule in Namibia, or British rule in Tasmania. The occupation of western Europe was much more benign.

 

[Captain Seafort]

It depends if you mean western or eastern Europe. I think it can be argued that the German occupation of eastern Europe was similarly bad as some of the harshest cases of colonial rule in Africa or elsewhere, such as the Belgian rule in Congo, the German rule in Namibia, or British rule in Tasmania. The occupation of western Europe was much more benign.

Try telling that to French Jews, or the population of Oradour-sur-Glane. A more accurate statement would be that German occupation of western Europe was as bad as the harshest examples of colonial rule. The fact that was far more benign than their behaviour in the east is one of the most extreme examples of damning with faint praise in human history.

 

[mattep74]

Yes, and even in comparatively-* tenderly treated Western European countries, such as Denmark and France, extermination of Jews was a policy.

(* Compared to Eastern Europe)

Not in Denmark until 1943 and there the occupying whermachtsoldiers leaked the info to the jews who promptly got the hell out of Dodge in small boats to Sweden in late September. 7900 escaped that way. 400 got captured and sent to Theresienstadt but they were never sent to a Death camp

 

[Jukra]

Not in Denmark until 1943 and there the occupying whermachtsoldiers leaked the info to the jews who promptly got the hell out of Dodge in small boats to Sweden in late September. 7900 escaped that way. 400 got captured and sent to Theresienstadt but they were never sent to a Death camp

Exactly, even in the most beningly occupied country destructio of Jews was a policy, although by Danish efforts most of the Danish Jews avoided that fate.

 

[Snaut]

Try telling that to French Jews, or the population of Oradour-sur-Glane. A more accurate statement would be that German occupation of western Europe was as bad as the harshest examples of colonial rule. The fact that was far more benign than their behaviour in the east is one of the most extreme examples of damning with faint praise in human history.

Most French Jews survived the occupation. Most Herero did not survive their genocide. Most Tasmanians did not survive colonialism. As for ethnic Frenchmen - are you saying that conditions in Vichy France were just as bad for them as the Congo Free State was for the Congolese?

 

[A Piece of History]

The Nazis literally planned to exterminate cultures, identities, nations and peoples in the pursuit of their insane plans for Europe.

While there were atrocities carried out against African natives, there was no plan to exterminate them and replace them with white colonists. Not even King Leopold, as cruel and evil as he was, wanted to exterminate the Congolese. He wanted them subjugated, not wiped out.

 

[Snaut]

And to answer the OP: I selected "worse than colonialism", because the non-european situations I mentioned were thankfully exceptional, but about half of what Germany occupied in Europe was in the east.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Frankly the question is insulting and also misleading. For one thing what period of colonialism are you talking about? The Early Spanish empire may be closest to the level of genocide the Nazis were planning, but even that was as least partly accidental. The introduction of old world illnesses to the new world did the vast majority of the killing and the Spanish knew very little about how they were spread or how to prevent them spreading. Yes bad things happened in all the empires but to compare that to the Nazis is outrageous.

 

[anotherlurker]

Well... iirc Belgian rule in the Congo reduced the population by 50 % three times, nazi Germany would just do it once by 100 % - you save yourself 50 % the genocide!

/s.

 

[Rider]

Undoubtedly worse. As others have alluded, their rule in Eastern Europe (especially Poland, the occupied Soviet Union and Balkans) was really something else.

 

[BlondieBC]

Nazi are much worse, not in the same galaxy as colonialism. The Nazi are trying to wipe out 10s of millions. Colonialism was about making a lot of money with a disregard for human life.

 

[Look More Closely Later]

The horrors of colonialism were truly bad, and same goes for Nazi Germany's atrocities in Europe.

But a thought struck me today, is Nazi rule in Europe (mainly focusing on Eastern Europe, namely Poland and the occupied territories of the USSR) "worse" than colonial rule in Africa, Southeast Asia or the Raj? (I think Africa was the worst, but I'm not sure here, could a more knowledged person help with that?)

Is Imperial Japan's idea of 'colonial rule' in China and the vicinity included in your question?

 

[NiGHTS]

Nazi rule in Eastern Europe would have been horrible, no doubt. But, it doesn't invalidate or undermine or erase the suffering of the people who were oppressed under Colonial rule.

 

[raharris1973]

Is Imperial Japan's idea of 'colonial rule' in China and the vicinity included in your question?

They might not be in the running. Look up charts on political murder, or "democide". Both the Chinese Communists, and the Chinese Nationalists! caused bigger mega-murders in China than the Japanese did.

To whit, CCP have a rap sheet of almost 77 million, KMT have a rap sheet of 11 million, and Japanese have a rap sheet of 6 million (and it seems to be their entire activity through WWI, not just in China alone).

Raw totals, not surprising given the much longer time period, colonialism beats Nazi Germany.

 

[Father Maryland]

Nazi rule in Eastern Europe would have been horrible, no doubt. But, it doesn't invalidate or undermine or erase the suffering of the people who were oppressed under Colonial rule.

Nobody here is saying it does and that's blatant obfuscation.

The difference is that most of the atrocities of colonialism tended to be the result of a desire to make money, break a conquered population to prevent rebellion, or neglect.

The Germans sought to exterminate hundreds of millions and managed in a frighteningly short period of time to accomplish much of their goal.

The colonization of Tasmania took place over decades with the majority of the casualties among the native peoples being the result of unintentional disease. In comparison the Germans managed to kill several million Soviet POW's in a matter of months. 10 percent of the Polish population was murdered in less then six years and that was while fighting a world war. If the Germans had won or at least been left alone in Poland it's reasonably to assume something like 75 percent of the population of the country dies within a decade or so.

In terms of scale and intensity of the extermination there is no real contest.