Nation On A Hill: A Timeline by Xanthoc

Flag Interlude #7: Grand Duchy of New York
Flag Interlude #7*
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"After initial debate, and a brief period of the reuse of the Rebel Ermy, the newly independent Grand Duchy of New York decided that it would see the creation of a new flag to demonstrate the new age for the colony that had come into being. Numerous designs were submitted, including a tricolor of red, white, and orange, which did eventually become the naval ensign of New York, but for matters of state, the theme that became central was the Ermine Cross. Taking four ermines and placing them together, the cross was meant to echo St. George's Cross from the flag of England, which is present on the Ol' Ermy. Eventually, a bisecting of the flag of white and orange was decided, as a show its dual past as both a loyal colony and rebellious city-state, with an Ermine Cross at the center to unite the two. Often called the Ermy Cross, it has become a defining symbol of New York as a nation, with the Ermine Cross itself commonly called the Yorkish Cross, and stamped on every crate that makes its way through New Amsterdam's harbor."

- The Little Book of Flags, 1889
*There's quite a few unnumbered flag interludes, but I do want to recognize them as such.
 
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I just realized that this Timeline is in the style of Look to the West. That took way too long.

Technically both NoaH (this) and LttW are both in the style of @Jared's Decades of Darkness. I try to create some uniqueness in my style though, with the addition of non-traditional entries and the like.
 
Good TL. Two minor complaints:
-Threadmarks. You desperately need threadmarks.
-And while I'm probably one of the more sympathetic people to an Ottoman resurgence on this board, a sustained Ottoman conquest of Austria in the eighteenth-century is ASB. You just flat out can not modernize the Ottoman tax system and military sufficiently, this late in the game, to make it stick. Even what you've had happen here will bankrupt the empire and make it collapse [which might be what you're going for; I don't know].

Frankly, the only way to preserve the Ottomans is something like Maiji that starts a lot earlier. You need a massive education program for officials. You need centralization of the tax system, which means serious head-cracking in terms of tax farmers. The jannisaries are a huge problem, as they are the only centralized military force in the empire, but they also flat out antagonize everyone else you need. And last but not least, you need to not go to war with the Europeans, all of whom have more efficient taxation and military systems than the Ottomans do at the time.

I hate to criticize this much, because it's a good TL, but what you're trying to do with the Ottomans just isn't going to work.
 
Good TL. Two minor complaints:
-Threadmarks. You desperately need threadmarks.
-And while I'm probably one of the more sympathetic people to an Ottoman resurgence on this board, a sustained Ottoman conquest of Austria in the eighteenth-century is ASB. You just flat out can not modernize the Ottoman tax system and military sufficiently, this late in the game, to make it stick. Even what you've had happen here will bankrupt the empire and make it collapse [which might be what you're going for; I don't know].

Frankly, the only way to preserve the Ottomans is something like Maiji that starts a lot earlier. You need a massive education program for officials. You need centralization of the tax system, which means serious head-cracking in terms of tax farmers. The jannisaries are a huge problem, as they are the only centralized military force in the empire, but they also flat out antagonize everyone else you need. And last but not least, you need to not go to war with the Europeans, all of whom have more efficient taxation and military systems than the Ottomans do at the time.

I hate to criticize this much, because it's a good TL, but what you're trying to do with the Ottomans just isn't going to work.

I’ve been thinking about threadmarks, I just haven’t sat down to make them. As for the Ottomans, most of this can be addressed, or is intentional.

Now I had a big, point by point address of your concerns, but I was worried I was spoiling too much in it, and it felt a bit like it was becoming some sort of defensive rant. If you would like a full explanation, hit me up in a PM and I’ll happily swap you my notes. I hope you’ll keep reading to see where it goes regardless.

For now, I want to make it clear that this isn’t an Ottoman resurgence. I fully understand the strain this is going to put on their nation, and I had hoped I was highlighting that they simply got lucky in timing: HRE in civil war, England scrambling to administer new territory, and then Italy screwing itself over.

The other thing I want to highlight as a breacdrumb is: look over just how many nations are drowning in debt...
 
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Wow! Another amazing post! I love this TL more and more every day.

After seeing those last Europe Maps a while ago, I decided to work periodically on a Worlda version of what we know to have been changed. Since then, we had the very busy Part #18, which changed around half of Europe. I had to fill in a few gaps, and its likely not perfect, but I finished it now and wanted to share it in case it might make things more clear.

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@Xanthoc let me know if You want me to change anything I got wrong, or if I shouldn't post it here.
 
Wow! Another amazing post! I love this TL more and more every day.

After seeing those last Europe Maps a while ago, I decided to work periodically on a Worlda version of what we know to have been changed. Since then, we had the very busy Part #18, which changed around half of Europe. I had to fill in a few gaps, and its likely not perfect, but I finished it now and wanted to share it in case it might make things more clear.

View attachment 383997

@Xanthoc let me know if You want me to change anything I got wrong, or if I shouldn't post it here.

Wow wow wow. It really made my day to see that you made this!

Only two points of correction I can see: Karelia/Murmansk is still Swedish, and as Galicia held out in the Iberian War, it is still Portuguese.

Other than that its great!
 
I’ve been thinking about threadmarks, I just haven’t sat down to make them. As for the Ottomans, most of this can be addressed, or is intentional.

Now I had a big, point by point address of your concerns, but I was worried I was spoiling too much in it, and it felt a bit like it was becoming some sort of defensive rant. If you would like a full explanation, hit me up in a PM and I’ll happily swap you my notes. I hope you’ll keep reading to see where it goes regardless.

For now, I want to make it clear that this isn’t an Ottoman resurgence. I fully understand the strain this is going to put on their nation, and I had hoped I was highlighting that they simply got lucky in timing: HRE in civil war, England scrambling to administer new territory, and then Italy screwing itself over.

The other thing I want to highlight as a breacdrumb is: look over just how many nations are drowning in debt...

I'll definitely keep reading. And if you're over-stretching the Ottomans on purpose, and know you're doing it, that makes sense.

In some ways, the Ottomans are genuinely victims of bad luck. If they avoided WWI somehow and hold onto what's now KSA long enough for oil to be discovered, they can probably paper over the cracks with oil revenues long enough to do institutional reforms and possibly survive to the present. In other ways, you've got systemic problems that are almost baked into the cake from very early on, and get harder and harder to fix the longer the can gets kicked down the road. The irony is, had they lost more earlier, they probably would have reformed sooner and survived more effectively.
 
Flag Interlude #8: Ottoman Empire
Flag Interlude #8

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"The Ottoman Empire had a number of battle flags and state banners, with little homogeny aside from a few key themes. Two of the most popular motifs were a crescent, seen on the flag of Konstantiniyye, and the Zulfiqar, the sword of Ali, also acting as a representation of the swords of the successful conquests of the past Caliphates. Chosen by the Sultan Osman III as his preferred symbol he, amongst other attempts at Westernization, had a simplified banner created featuring Zulfiqar, and as it saw heavy use in the Great Eastern War as well as subsequent wars, particularly in the Arabian Wars, it became the central symbol of the Ottoman Empire, recognized as its primary state flag and battle flag, representing the Sultan and the government...

...Early variants of the flag were entirely red and gold, other green and gold, others red and white. After debate and examination, red and gold held out as the primary basis, but, the story goes, as a proponent of green bickered with a proponent of red before the Sultan, their banners fell the the ground. The green banner was larger, and the alignment created a red and gold flag with a green border. The popular tale is that the Sultan silenced the pair and then demanded that the green be sewn onto the red with gold thread. The result was pleasing to all parties, and became the flag. More realistically, green borders or red borders were common on a number of battle flags, and once red won out as the primary color, the green border was added almost immediately."

- The Little Book of Flags, 1887​
 
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OTTOMANS STROK!

Actually, that is some impressively well-thought-out "Divide and Conquer" scheme the Turks have in former Austria-Hungary.

[39] Malaria is now handled...kinda. Enough to be livable and help with things in other parts of Latin America too. The water is also decently aided as well. We should note that the present lakes near the canal are artificial, so the city isn’t exactly where the Canal is.
Malaria partially dealt with already? This sounds like it could have significant implications for European interactions with sub-saharan africa down the line.
 
OTTOMANS STROK!

Actually, that is some impressively well-thought-out "Divide and Conquer" scheme the Turks have in former Austria-Hungary.


Malaria partially dealt with already? This sounds like it could have significant implications for European interactions with sub-saharan africa down the line.

Malaria is handled, partially in Panama. No real cure or major treatment, but cinchona had been a well-known remedy for quite some time by the 1700s. Growth has been expanded, however, helping things along. Exporting it, growing it elsewhere, and actually extracting a proper medicine rather than just using the plant are a long way off. In a sense, if people get bit they can now not invariably die in the area, and that means construction can commence and people can live in the city.

However, I can tell you that the use cinchona in Panama will mean exportation elsewhere more quickly, same with extraction of quinine. So it will have effects, just not as major as you might think.
 
Instead, Louis wanted time to build up some strength, possibly let the Holy Roman Empire break itself fighting the Muslims before France began a final war to conquer the German Nation.

As I said before, the man's a megalomaniac. :hushedface:

Hell, when Constantinople fell, it was Catholic Italian mercenaries manning the cannons for the Ottomans.

OTOH, the Greeks are stinky heretics and therefore in the eyes of many Catholics as bad as Muslims.

Not to be confused with Typhon, the giant serpent

Giant snake with a hundred snake-tails, a hundred snake-arms, loads of wings, and variously 100 snake heads, a mix of human and snake heads, a main humanoid head and many subsidiary snake heads, or even a donkey's head (all breathing fire of course). He's the most EXTREME monster in Greek mythology. :biggrin:

Frankly, the only way to preserve the Ottomans is something like Maiji that starts a lot earlier.

This seems to contradict what you say later, so I'm guessing you actually mean something more like "the only way to preserve an Ottoman conquest of Vienna is something like..?"

I had to fill in a few gaps, and its likely not perfect, but I finished it now and wanted to share it in case it might make things more clear.

Nice!
 
(BTW, I don't think the Ottomans actually ever banned pigs outright in the Balkans (outside of cities) OTL: they just taxed them.)
 
(BTW, I don't think the Ottomans actually ever banned pigs outright in the Balkans (outside of cities) OTL: they just taxed them.)

The ban was a just hefty tax, harsher than a lot of places, and more an attempt at trying to begin encroaching on Christian rights since they were lax elsewhere. Calling it a ban is more because it became too expensive for peasants to buy, making it a delicacy.

And boy, if you think Louis XV is bad, just wait until we get to the Third Sun King.
 
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I've had this on my subscribed list for a while, but I finally read through it all! I love the style of this timeline, drunken rants and history books and tour guides alike. The Ottoman conquests are perhaps a bit unrealistic, but I won't complain about any Ottoman resurgence in this era. I'm really interested in New England's development into this dystopic society we're hinted at.
 
As I said before, the man's a megalomaniac. :hushedface:
This seems to contradict what you say later, so I'm guessing you actually mean something more like "the only way to preserve an Ottoman conquest of Vienna is something like..?"

To clarify: Maiji a lot earlier--combined, critically, with not expanding into Europe too much--makes Ottoman survival much much easier. The Ottomans avoiding WWI--possibly by someone like Sabahaddin Bey coming to power instead of the CUP--combined with holding the oil-rich parts of Arabia long enough for oil to be discovered probably leads to Ottoman survival, but in a fairly shambolic state that might or might not be capable of institutional reform that late in the game.

It's basically the difference between a resurgence--which requires early Maiji--and a virtual resurrection from death--which might have happened in the twentieth, had the Ottomans been luckier.

The latest I can fathom the Ottomans taking Vienna is 1689, and even then, it's probably really bad for them in the long-run.

Without spoilers, I do see where the author's going with this now. I'm not sure it would actually work, but it's interesting and not impossible, so I'll enjoy reading regardless.
 
Flag Interlude #9: Albionic Empire and Colonies
About halfway through the next update, but for now take this nifty chart. Description for each flag to come.

Flag Interlude #9

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"The Albionic Empire controlled a vast swath of land, with numerous colonies. Many of their Caribbean holdings had limited autonomy, and were in fact more often than not under the direct control of the reformed Royal Albionic West Indies Company, an offshoot of the East India Company that had since been in decline. Those colonies with full autonomy and self-government, however, quickly adopted the practice of flying their own flags, particularly as inter-colony relations soured and distinction between colonial trade ships was desired...

...The flag of Albion itself was a simple affair, utilizing the cross of St. George and overlaying it on the blue field utilized by the Kingdom of Ireland. Representation for Wales was discussed, but ultimately dropped due to its official and legal annexation by England centuries before...

...The United Colony of New England eventually came to be the only colony to maintain use of the Red Ensign, and this eventually was seen as the flag of the colony itself. When England became Albion, the ensign was altered to gain the blue of Ireland, though numerous members of the New English Commission were unhappy to be officially ruled jointly by Irish Catholics...

...The Cavalier Colonies of Virginia and Carolina created flags at the same time, using a blue ensign to distinguish their ships from the New English and from pirates that often flue the English flag alone to sneak up on trade fleets. Over time, to help with battle coordination as the economies of both colonies grew more competitive, a created coat of arms was added to each colony. Carolina opted to use the tree of the Order of the Oak, one of the most prestigious Orders of Chivalry in Albion, laid on red, representing how they were named for King Charles. Virginia meanwhile, used three Tudor Roses on white, symbolizing the Virgin Queen Elizabeth, whom the colony is supposedly named for...

...Maryland used the blue ensign mostly because it preferred to move its trade fleets with those of the Virginians and Carolinians than the New English, and added its own crest to distinguish itself a few years after the other two colonies did similarly. The flag was rarely used on land, variations of the coat of arms of Lord Baltimore in cities...

...The flag of New Jersey was initially developed during the many skirmishes against natives, and most famously during the War of the Spanish Succession. New Jersey militias, few though they were, lacked any flag of their own to fly. Often, a small English flag, one commonly hung from a window or from a government building, would be stitched onto a banner for the army itself. During the invasion of New York, however, fabric was in short supply, and, disliking having to march under the flag of another colony, the New Jersey militia grabbed a bed sheet and stitched on the flag. Once white, age, dirty, and grim had rendered it a buff hue, and the success of the militia quickly made this impromptu flag popular, officialized after England became Albion, with the new Albionic flag utilized for the 'Buff Ensign'...

...Ricardia made use of the increasingly rare White Ensign to mark its ships. In a sense, many saw it as a sign of the colonies proud and humble origins, as well as its foundation to help begin a new age for England after the Bloody Year. However, with winds often curling the banner onto itself, the use of a red pennant with a golden lion, a reference to their namesake's namesake, Richard the Lionheart, was added into common practice. On land, the pennant hangs vertically from the top of the flag pole, while at see it often flies horizontally above the White Ensign...

...To represent their new Albionic leadership, the flags of Denmark and Sweden were granted a squared version of the Albionic flag in a canton, and the flags of the countries were reproportioned to match other Albionic flags. Norway was officially separated from Denmark in the tail end of 1754 though it was still officially in personal union with Denmark in case the throne of the nation ever passed on to a different person than the King of Albion, a notion Canute heavily considered with the difficulty he found administering his Empire. The flag was based a purported flag of the Kalmar Union, as well as utilizing red and gold, the two colors used in the Royal Banner of Norway. While a red field and gold cross was considered, the inverse, happily correlating with the Kalmar flag, was chosen to avoid confusion with Denmark..."

- Flags of Albion by Arty Kenneth​
 
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Description now added!

That dehydrated-piss-yellow Jersey flag is so very fitting.
/s

Other flags are nice as well.

It's buff! A perfectly serviceable color...well yeah okay. It was quite literally created from a dirty bedsheet. I felt it fitting for New Jersey while also using the state color.
 
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